CPU to hot?

[carrot]

I just built a new system with a Pentium D 805. I have it set up right now on a table in a big open room with both sides of the case off. Stock HS/Fan. I checked the BIOS (no windows as of yet) and the processor is idling at about 65 degrees. WOW, thats hot... at least I think so. It's a dual-core and I don't have any experiance with them.
Can you tell me if that's too hot or not. And if it is, what is the best way to go about cooling it down?
Thanks

[mjc]

Yep...it is hot.

Make sure that the heatsink is properly set, that compound is smooth and uniform and that if there was a thermal pad--that it is completely removed and cleaned up from.

[carrot]

I reseated the HS with new thermal paste. It's now idiling at 56. I still think thats hot, but I don't know what else to do.
Is 56 okay for a dual-core chip?

[mjc]

What heatsink are you using?

I'd try a different one...that still seems a bit on the high side for idle temps.

[carrot]

I'm just using the stock HS. But I don't want to buy a new HS, the one they include is supposed to effectively cool the chip it was made for right?


The mobo has an automatic fan speed control for the CPU that detects the temperature and adjusts the RPM's accordingly. It's running at like 4100 RPM's and is REALLY loud. Maybe that means it's still to hot?
Could the problem be that I scratched the surface of the chip with a knife when I was scraping off the original thermal paste?

[mjc]

Yeah...

The only problem with most of the stock heatsinks I've seen/used is that they aren't often very flat. I suppose if you don't want to switch it, then lapping it could be an answer.

[Whyzman]

Lapping:

http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=48638&goto=newpost

[Fred_Flintstone]

Lapping:

http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=48638&goto=newpost


Whyz...think you got the wrong link there .. ;)

Though, when carrot gets his temps down it will sort out his printer problems for him!!. :D :D

[Whyzman]

Hehe...thanks Fred! ;)

Seems that my copy/paste failed...

Here's the link:

http://www.overclockersclub.com/guides/heatsinklappingguide.php

[saphalline]

I'm just using the stock HS. But I don't want to buy a new HS, the one they include is supposed to effectively cool the chip it was made for right?Ummm... well...

Intel had major heat problems with their Prescott core. And the Pentium D's are nothing but two Prescott cores in one. Even the move down to a 65nm process with the PD 900's did little to alleviate the heat problems. The stock cooler on most of the latest P4-based CPU's is inadequate - there's no denying that.

However, with lapping and Arctic Silver, you should be able to get the temps down to a manageable level. Like say, idling at 45-50C. Also keep in mind that any thermal material, be it the stock thermal pad or AS5, needs time to settle in and become fully effective. I say lap the heatsink, apply Arctic Silver again, and give it a good week. If all goes well, you should see idling temps below 50C (which is good enough for a PD 800 series).

[carrot]

Okay, I'm gonna lap the heat sink and re-apply my thermal paste. (does it have to be Arctic Silver?) You said that it takes about a week for the paste to settle in and become effective, does that mean I can't turn the computer on for a week, or that after a week the temps should be down where they will (hopefully) stay? Also, can I lap the processor itself, or is that a bad idea?
Thanks for all the help so far and sorry about the double-post :D

[saphalline]

Yes, the computer needs to be used for that week. That's the generic settle time for roughly 60-80% effectiveness of Arctic Silver, assuming an average of 8 hours a day of variable system usage. Try to do some web surfing and heavy gaming during this time. Progressive idle & full load usage, combined with shut down time, forces the thermal grease to expand into the tiny cracks between the heatsink and CPU/heatspreader surface.

It doesn't have to be Arctic Silver, but why settle for less?

No, don't lap the CPU itself. That's a very bad idea.

[Quantax]

I'm just using the stock HS. But I don't want to buy a new HS, the one they include is supposed to effectively cool the chip it was made for right?


The mobo has an automatic fan speed control for the CPU that detects the temperature and adjusts the RPM's accordingly. It's running at like 4100 RPM's and is REALLY loud. Maybe that means it's still to hot?
Could the problem be that I scratched the surface of the chip with a knife when I was scraping off the original thermal paste?
The newer PC I built several months ago that has a Pentium D dual core has had this same issue(I even posted it here not too long ago). The application of arctic silver seems to have helped a bit but if the temp around the PC gets hot(as it has here in L.A. of late), the fan gets noisy and the temp gets up to the mid to upper 50's.

I read that the danger point for the D is about 63 degrees Centigrade.

[saphalline]

With adequate cooling, the max temp for the PD 805 & 820 is about 64.1C. Max temp for the PD 830 & 840 is 69.8C. Max temp for the PD 920/930/940/950 05A is 63.4C. Max temp for the PD 940/950/960 05B and PEE 955 & 965 is 68.6C.

These figures are from Intel's whitepapers and assume max core temp at their rated TDP of 95W or 130W, as applicable. But even so, once a CPU's temp gets up to 60C, you should start worrying.

[carrot]

Okay, I lapped the CPU (or tried to, I think I did a really bad job) and reapplied the thermal paste. Now I'm getting temps at about 55.... thats a whole 1 degree improvement! WOOT! lol! I'm sick of messing with it though, so I'm going to inform my clients that the processor might get a bit hot, and if it does, then an alarm will go off. If the alarm goes off, call me and I will come over and fix it. By fix it, i mean i'm just gonna give up and underclock it until I get the temp I want.
To bad for them.... but heck, all they needed was a computer that can run office applications and ebay. :D

[Whyzman]

I think I did a really bad jobWhy do you say that?

[carrot]

because when I look head-on at the copper piece, I see lines running through it where the sandpaper left groves. Also, it didn't do squat when i put it back in the comp.

[Whyzman]

You shouldn't be seeing grooves! Did you follow the procedure using finer and finer wet/dry grit? I use 1500 for the final sanding that gives me nearly a mirror finish. Also, you want to move in circles when lapping...not just side to side. I add a little water onto the paper to facilitate cutting and move in figure 8s...

[mjc]

If you get it down to over 800 grit paper you should not really see anything. I take it to 800 or so (sometimes I take it to 1500) and then pull out my Arkansas super hard whetstone and give it a couple of passes on that...then I use it to shave with (as the mirror)...

[carrot]

You shouldn't be seeing grooves!
Uh oh....
Did you follow the procedure using finer and finer wet/dry grit? I use 1500 for the final sanding
I ended with 2000 grit...
nearly a mirror finish.
When held at a certian angle, the groves dissapear and I can see a nice reflection.

The problem is that when i put the heatsink down on the counter or whatever, the little clamp thingeys that go into the motherboard touch the surface and hold the copper part up off the couter. So what i ended up doing was cutting a piece of wood about 9" long and 1-1/2" wide, stapleing the sandpaper to that, then just running the heatsink back and forth across it. So, no, I didn't go in circles because I couldn't.

By the way, I followed this guide to the letter.
http://www.overclockersclub.com/guides/heatsinklappingguide.php

Yes... another one of my threads got the little red icon next to it! Score!

[mjc]

Ok, with that kind of connection it should either be possible to totally remove it or you need to turn the unit 90 degrees every so often...make five passes, turn, make five more passes, turn again, make five more...and so on.

[carrot]

huh?
Wouldn't you totally remove it AND make turn the unit 90 degrees every so often...make five passes, turn, make five more passes, turn again, make five more...and so on?

The whole turning the unit isn't the problem, the problem is that the unit wont lay flat on the table. unless I am understanding wrong.
look at thishttp://www.pcstats.com/articleimages/200508/P4840_both1.jpg
The four little feet on the corners hold the unit up off the ground.

[mjc]

Use your block...

When you turn it you will be doing it by 90°...not quite as good as making circles, but better than all the same direction.

If you took the heatsink in the picture...grabbing from the top, in your right hand, your thumb would be on the side near the pic of the CPU. Make five passes on the first grit, then spin it so your thumb is now on the side where the plug is sticking out...rinse and repeat, until you are back to the original side, then move to the next finer grit...until you are down to the finest grit. Remember less pressure is needed on the finer grits...and copper is softer than aluminum, so less pressure over all.

[carrot]

Thats what i did. except i went 10 times then rotated it 90 degrees then went 10 times again until I had gone all the way around twice. then I washed it off and reapplied the soap. Then i went completly around again twice. Then I got a new piece of the same grit sandpaper and went twice around, wash and repeat. Then i went onto the next grit and so on and so forth....... lol...... the person I built this for just called while I was writing this post.... I told him what was going on and he said he would rather just go and buy a new heatsink/fan than make me fix the current one. WOOT! So now, the topic is shifting to what is the best brand of heatsink i should get to go on my Intel Pentium D 805? (socket LGA775, although most of u already know that) The only problem is that i need to be able to go to a store and get it, no online ordering. He wants his new machine!
There is a PC Club near my house, is that the best place to go?

Once again, thank you all so much for helping me try and save a few bucks.

[saphalline]

Hit all the stores and see what they have. If possible, get a Zalman. They're generally the best, and you should have no problems with "feet" of any kind with them. They pretty much bolt directly onto the mobo. And any PC store with some self-respect will have Zalman's in stock!

[mjc]

And most Zalman's have pretty darn good 'fit and finish'...there should be no need to play around lapping it for normal use.

[carrot]

Great!
I'll tell you all what I get tomarrow to see if it gets the PC Guide Seal of Approval. :D

[carrot]

Okay, this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835103157) is the fan I got. It's a Cooler Master brand. The temps didn't actully get as low as I would have liked, but they are low enough. I also decide to use Asus's kool "On-demand" overclocking utility insted of just overclocking it. (No, when I was testing the temperature's it wasn't OC'd)
From the Asus Website:

AI NOS™
Boost performance when you need it the most!
Applications such as 3D games and video editing demand a huge chunk of system resource.
Inject "nitrous oxide" into your CPU! The patented AI NOS™ (Non-delay Overclocking System) technology intelligently detects system load and automatically boosts performance for the most demanding tasks. Unlike other dynamic overclocking techniques, AI NOS™ reacts much faster to satisfy your unending need for speeds.

Anyway, I think it's kool.
So, the temps stay under 48 Idle, but almost hit 60 full load. (that is with the N.O.S.) When the NOS is turned off, they get up to about 55 on load.
How's that?

[saphalline]

Those are decent temps for a PD 805. I say keep it where it is and don't spend any more time on it! Not really possible to get a PD 800 series down to A64 single-core temps. At least it's manageable now. 55C full load without NOS enabled is good.

[carrot]

Great.
Thanks for all the help everyone!