Second hard drive

[andy37142]

Motherboard = MSI 865PE Neo2-PFISR (Skt 478)
Processor = Intel Celeron 2.4Ghz Rtl (Skt 478)
Memory = 512Mb DDR (PC3200) 400
Hard drive = 160Gb Maxtor D'Max Plus 9 - SATA (8MB Cache).
Running WinXP with SP2.

Apologies if this is a simple question for you knowledgeable folks but I don't know the answer.
I plan to but a second hard disk to back up the first/main hard disk which contains about 40GB of data including operating system and files due to a near miss at almost losing everything recently.
Does the second hard drive have to be specific to what hardware is already installed on the computer or can it be any old hard disk. There is a spare connector for a second hard drive however it is exactly the same connector as for the first hard drive. Are hard disk connectors all the same or do they vary depending on which hard drive you have installed?
Many thanks
andy37142

[bassman]

There are currently (if I have not missed something) two types of connectors on the market today, SATA and IDE. Your mobo should have both and as a backup disk, either should work just fine.
Do you have the second HDD already or are you getting ready to purchase? Either way, let us know the specs you are looking at and we can advise from there.

Funny, this is the third post I have seen this morning apologizing for asking a question. Personaly that is why I come here, to answer peoples questions, and sometimes ask one or two. Ask away folks, that is why we are here ;)

[andy37142]

Bassman
Many thanks for your prompt reply.
No, I haven't sourced a second hard disk as I needed to know the answers to the questions that I posed above.
I would be looking at at a second hard disk of around 50GB just to back up the first hard disk. I had hard disk failure last week however luckily I was advised to delete the dodgy partition/drive from the system which I did and managed to save the operating system and crucial personal files that's why I am considering backing everything up on a second hard disk.
I am in the UK by the way.
Many thanks
andy37142

[bassman]

With HDD costs as low as they are, and the fact that I don't think you will find something around 50 gig, I recommend you get the most for your pound. Although 300 Gb might seem like overkill, if you can get it for the same price as 250, why not ;)

[deddard]

As pointed out, it is worth getting a larger drive.
If you have suffered hard drive failure, I'd also get a copy of Acronis True Image or Norton Ghost.
That way when you do a 'back up' you will actually create a clone of the hard disk drive. Reinstalling it is just a case of using a boot disk for the appropriate program (ghost or True Image) and telling it to grab the image and put it on the hdd.

[andy37142]

Thanks for the replies. It was actually Norton Ghost which blew my hard drive up!! I was backing up C drive to G drive using NG when it aborted half way through and restarted the machine however the machine wouldn't now boot from the hard disk. After about an hour of 'Boot Failure' messages I pressed F8 and managed to get it to boot. After a week of testing/checking the hard disk it was found that G drive was the problem and I was advised to delete the G partition so it wasn't really Norton Ghost's fault. It was also bad policy to ghost a partition onto the same drive.
To get this clear:
1) Buy new hard disk and let Windoze detect it and find drivers.
2) Use Norton Ghost to clone Harddisk 1 to Harddisk2.
3) Create Boot disk in Ghost for Harddisk2.
Is it wise to leave Hardisk2 in situ or is it best to disconnect and store it.
Many thanks
andy37142

[Sylvander]

I bought a USB connected external HDD enclosure and fit my old,spare HDD's into this and use it for holding things like backups and more.
My old 80 GB Maxtor was suspect [found 80 bad clusters on it], so I bought a new 80 GB Maxtor HDD and swapped out the old and in with the new.

Bought "Boot-It NG" + "Image for Windows" [IFW] + "Image for DOS" [IFD][use this most] by TeraByte.
Never seen or heard of IFD failing in any way, or producing errors; very reliable and simple to use, yet very effective & low cost & FAST.
IFD loads from a floppy, and can save image files [of various partitions] direct to, and restore direct from, [folders on various partitions on] the external USB HDD.
I also save image backups to [folders on] the internal G: partition.

The external HDD is normally powered off, which means it doesn't show in Windows, and can be disconnected and stored elsewhere, or taken to another PC and connected to a USB socket.

Just re-scanned the old 80 GB Maxtor and not a single extra bad cluster was found.
Scanned the new one also and not a single bad cluster found.
Used MS Scandisk on the FREE "Emergency Boot CD" [EBCD] to do the scanning.
The EBCD includes a FREE TRIAL version of IFD [Image].

1. [b]How to make a free “Smart Boot Manager” floppy
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=41498
This makes it easier to boot a chosen drive [particularly the one holding the EBCD].

2. How to make a free EBCD bootable CD
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=41485
This has a number of useful utilities included including "Image" [for DOS, by Terabyte] & "File Manager".

[andy37142]

1. How to make a free “Smart Boot Manager” floppy
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=41498
This makes it easier to boot a chosen drive [particularly the one holding the EBCD].
Is it possible to create system files by using the Command Prompt from within Windows or does Command Prompt HAVE to run before Windows has loaded. I ask because I just can't get my computer to load the Command Prompt/Safe Mode menu (tried about 10 times restarting and pressing F8) although if I press DEL it loads the BIOS menu fine.
Sylvander's option seems very complicated for me as an amateur, and I can't afford additional software as well as a new hard drive, so is it possible to just Ghost one hard disk to another or can I do it using the back up facility in WinXP itself?
Many thanks
andy37142

[Sylvander]

"I can't afford additional software"
The SBM ["Smart Boot Manager"] & EBCD are both FREE. The EBCD includes a FREE TRIAL version of "Image For DOS", plus many other very useful FREE programs.

"Is it possible to create system files by using the Command Prompt from within Windows"
You could copy files from another suitable PC, to a disk [floppy or CD or HDD] and use the EBCD "File Manager" to copy them from that disk to any location of your choice on your HDD. You can use it to edit files containing text [ini, bat files etc][it does other things too].

"I just can't get my computer to load the Command Prompt/Safe Mode menu"
Probably your "boot.ini" file is incorrect and needs editing/changing/fixing.
The EBCD includes a "Create Boot Floppy for WinNT/2000/XP" program.
This makes a generic boot floppy that includes "Boot.ini", "ntldr", "ntdetect.com".
If you boot your PC with this floppy in the FDD, you will be offered the F8 option [and the rest], and when chosen, it should work properly.
If your XP system wouldn't boot due to your HDD versions these files being corrupted, this floppy would make the boot process by-pass the normal [corrupted] boot files on the HDD and get you into Windows.
Then you could replace the corrupted files on the HDD with the ones on the floppy and your system would boot ok afterward.
In your situation you could rename your Boot.ini file [to boot.bad], and replace it with the copy on the floppy [once you've tried it and found that it works].
Just recently I replaced mine [using the FREE TBIView within Windows] with a copy held in an IFD image backup file to fix a similar [but different] problem.

"or can I do it using the back up facility in WinXP itself?"
If MS Backup hasn't improved from earlier Windows versions, then it will still be a very poor method of making a backup.
When I tried it to backup the contents of C:, it would skip files that were in use, so they could not be restored. Hence the restored system was incomplete!
IFD works outside of Windows [Windows isn't running] and makes a cluster-for-cluster copy of the partition contents [missing out the unused clusters], so it always gets it right.

[andy37142]

Sylvander
Thanks for the information. I have succesfully created the 'How to make a free EBCD bootable CD' and booted up using it. I have a problem though. I have a wireless keyboard and mouse and the keyboard refuses to work when the EBCD bootable CD is running (although I can use it in BIOS setup). Do you know if there is a fix for this or would I have to install a serial keyboard to be able to communicate with the EBCD bootable CD.
Two final questions
1) Can I use this bootable CD to load everything that normally loads on a normal Windows boot from the hard disk i.e a bog standard normal boot or is it more complicated than that?
2) I have 3 options in BIOS for booting from various devices - I have presently one set to floppy, one set to CD/RW and one set to the hard disk. I don't really need to make a floppy 'Smart Boot Manager' do I as I can boot from the CD/RW direct?
Thanks
andy37142

[Sylvander]

"I have a wireless keyboard and mouse and the keyboard refuses to work when the EBCD bootable CD is running "
Strange! :confused:
I too am using a wireless keyboard and mouse, and both work just fine with the EBCD.
There are mouse and keyboard drivers included on the CD.
The keyboard driver must be [and is] loaded before you get to the 1st menu so you can type a number to choose a menu item.
The mouse driver is loaded later [if needed, it depends on your choices] and you must give the ok to that.
My mouse and keyboard communicate wirelessly with a receiver station [a small circular housing with a "reconnect" button on top].
The receiver then has a cable that separates into two cables.
One of those for the mouse has a USB plug, but a USB to PS2 adapter was supplied and I use that and connect the mouse to the PS2 input socket.
The other cable goes to a PS2 keyboard plug that plugs into a PS2 keyboard socket.
Not aware of any solution to your problem, but will set my mind to work on it.

"or is it more complicated than that?"
It doesn't work as you described, so yes, I guess it's more complicated.
The [simple] OS that's running has been loaded into RAM from the CD [not sure if it's DOS or Linux based].
The files on the HDD are "dead"; the OS files have not been loaded into RAM so the OS [Windows] isn't booted. Hence, Windows isn't running. But you can do things to the hardware and software.
e.g. You can scan the HDD for bad clusters and mark them as bad and not for use.
You could repartition and reformat the HDD.
You can browse [and manipulate] the files on the partitions on the HDD.
You can image the contents of the various partitions on the internal HDD.
And much, much more. So many things, that after a few years I'm still learning what this disk can do. Learning to use all its features is an education.

"I don't really need to make a floppy 'Smart Boot Manager' do I as I can boot from the CD/RW direct?"
I could have my BIOS set to boot the CD-drive 1st, but I prefer to have the FDD 1st, and then...
If [at startup] I hit "Esc" on my HP PC the splash screen disappears to reveal the results of the BIOS tests & detection.
When that's finished, instead of the usual boot from the HDD, a menu is displayed offering the choice of various boot devices.
I could choose the FDD, or the CD-drive, or the HDD [plus others]...
But I find it quicker and more convenient to put the EBCD in the CD-drive and the SBM in the FDD and switch on.
Then it boots QUICKLY to a menu [no need to hit "Esc"] and I choose the correct one of the two CD-drives, and it boots the EBCD.

[andy37142]

Sylvander
Thanks for the reply.
I had the wireless system that you described however I changed it for Genius Wireless. This is a USB receiver (and battery charger) that plugs into a USB port and the keyboard and mouse work via this receiver i.e the whole keyboard/mouse system works from 1 wire that is plugged into a USB port. I will have another try tonight as I can't see why the keyboard can't work in the emergency boot mode if it can work during BIOS setup/changes.
One final thing - I said earlier that I couldn't access the Safemode/Commandprompt menu using F8. I have established that Timeout was only set to 3 (should be 30) which I changed. The system however uses modified boot.ini and I keep changing it to original boot.ini, apply, save and restart but every time I restart it reverts back to modified boot.ini - any idea how to change this please?
Many thanks
andy37142

[Sylvander]

"every time I restart it reverts back to modified boot.ini"
Woa, that's beyond my ken.
How would that be done I wonder?
The modified Boot.ini file would need to be in place early in startup.
So perhaps that means that the file is checked and "fixed" during the preceding shut-down procedure .
So try making the changes in Safe Mode; perhaps those checks won't take place during that shut-down.

[andy37142]

I bought the system in bits brand new and a mate put it together and did all the software and hardware building so I don't know what he did.
Regarding Safe Mode:

"I just can't get my computer to load the Command Prompt/Safe Mode menu"
Probably your "boot.ini" file is incorrect and needs editing/changing/fixing.
The EBCD includes a "Create Boot Floppy for WinNT/2000/XP" program.
This makes a generic boot floppy that includes "Boot.ini", "ntldr", "ntdetect.com".

I have successfully made such a floppy using another method and tested it and it does bypass the boot on the hard disk however it loads Windows and doesn't give me the F8 option. I couldn't find the 'Create boot floppy' on the EBCD could you give me a pointer please?
Thanks
andy37142

[Sylvander]

"I couldn't find the 'Create boot floppy' on the EBCD could you give me a pointer please?"
Boot the EBCD | at the 1st menu hit "Enter" to go to the 2nd menu | at the 2nd menu [of the Pro EBCD] there should be an item reading "Create Boot Floppy (NT/2000/XP)" or similar [need to check that again].

The Boot.ini content on the copy I made reads...
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOW S
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional" /fastdetect


There should be no space between WINDOW & S [fault on the PC Guide forums].
WINDOWS is correct not WINDOW S

[Sylvander]

Wording of the menu item is...

Boot WinNT/2000/XP -- Create Emergency Floppy to boot these OS

[andy37142]

Many thanks everyone, you've all been a great help especially Sylvander. I will buy you a half and half next time I'm up Bathgate/Livingston way.
Thanks again
andy37142

[apocolypseAL]

wow, thats a lot of replies. I am relatively new to building my computer, and have found a way that works for me pretty well. I have my main drive with windows xp on it, and my secondary drive is my storage for everything I want to keep.

Only had one problem since I did that, and just formatted and reinstalled windows on the main drive, move programs over and I am done. I dont know if anyone else has tried this, but sure would like to hear opinions.

Maybe this might be a little help for the poster of this thread, maybe not.

Ciao. :D

[Sylvander]

"formatted and reinstalled windows on the main drive"
If you keep only Windows & Programs & swap-file & configurqation files [registry+] on C: and save image backups of C: [and other partitions too] at suitable points [when all's well] as you move forward in time, then...
If you so much as suspect that all is not well with the software, just restore the latest suitable image backup and all will be well once again.
It's saves on the time and effort of reinstalling Windows & programs, and re-tweaking the configuration settings.
I have Win98SE & Win2000Pro setups saved as images and could restore either of those to C: [and have them running] in about 15 to 30 minutes.

"my secondary drive is my storage for everything I want to keep"
I have moved all my personal data to [a small] D: [see image below] music on E: videos on F: installation file sets and backups on G:
When I restore an image to make C: "jump back" I still have up to date:
a. My Documents. [Use “TweakUI” to move their home]
b. E-mails for all identities. [use the email client to move their home]
c. Internet Explorer Favourites. [Use “TweakUI” to move their home]
d. Temporary Internet Files. [use the browser (Internet Explorer) to move them]
e. Re-home the Windows Address Book as shown here http://tinyurl.com/24q6l . Use the key “HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\WAB\WAB4\Wab FileName” to specify its new address. [Its normal home address [in Win98] is C:\WINDOWS\Application Data\Microsoft\Address Book\(the name you gave your PC).WAB]