Overclocking CPU wont boot

[TopChip7]

Using AI Booster I can happily o/c the CPU, RAM & FSB and the system continues to work faster & stability isnt an issue.

All works well until I shut down or restart.

I get the logging off screen, windows shutting down screen, monitor turns off, but the pc doesnt shut down - fans & psu keep running.

I then have to reset the system to turn it off and back on and then I'm greeted by a message requesting bios is set back to default settings before it will let me boot.

Could this be something to do with the memory I have being SLI EPP?
See, if I o/c CPU to 2.6Ghz then the ddr2 runs at 440mhz (ddr 881 instead of ddr 800). I am not able to change DDR2 speed in bios as choices are plain 400mhz option - cannot manually set it at 440/441 from bios.

Doesnt matter if I'm o/c 3% or o/c 10%, it just makes no difference - It still wont reboot. Fairly sure if I o/c from 2.4Ghz to 2.8Ghz the problem wouldnt exist because of the way DDR2 runs - however, the cpu wont hold that big an o/c and system crashes instantly.

If you look at the specs in my signature, you'll see I built this system specifically for overclocking so I aint too impressed at the moment. Maybe someone will tell me where I'm going wrong!!!


All advice appreciated. Thanks.

[Budfred]

You would probably be much better off asking this in an overclocking forum... In my opinion you are risking some very expensive components to get an incremental increase in speed that it is very unlikely that you can even perceive without the help of benchmarking tools... The fact that your computer is gagging on that is a good clue that it doesn't like what you are doing... Even when a chip has a reputation of being a good one to overclock, it doesn't apply to every single chip of that kind...

If you are not prepared to deal with burning this stuff up, you may need to settle for just a plain old computer running at the speed the chip maker said it is supposed to run at...

[madad2005]

If you really want experienced advice overclocking athlon 64's, try the forum at guru3d.com or kustompc.co.uk. I've never heard of AI Booster so that may be your problem. You should be able to get at least an extra 200Mhz out of that cpu, but as budfred said sometimes it just doesn't happen. No need to overclock though, if you have a high performance system.

[saphalline]

Don't use AI Booster if you want a stable OC at higher speeds. AI Booster is intended to throttle your CPU at various settings depending on the load on the system. This means that your CPU isn't guaranteed to be running at any given speed all the time. Disable it. Set the OC options in the BIOS to manual. Also, disable Cool 'n Quiet, disable any spread spectrum options, lock the PCI bus speed at 33MHz, and lock the PCIe bus speed at 100MHz.

Once everything is switched over to manual settings, the real OC'ing can begin! :cool:

Crank the FSB/HT Link speed up little by little (I usually do increments of 2 or 3 MHz) until it crashes in a 3DMark 06 run. Then inch it down by 1MHz until it is once again stable in a 3DMark 06 run. This FSB/HT Link speed represents your baseline OC potential for your system. This is as fast as it will go at stock voltage levels.

Now what you need to do is increase your CPU's core voltage. I believe your Asus mobo does it in increments of 0.025V, correct? Turn it up a notch, turn up your FSB/HT Link speed by 1MHz, and run 3DMark 06 again. Keep doing this until it crashes. Crank up the VCore by another notch, do it again. Once you've gone two rounds with the CPU's core voltage, it's time to work on the RAM.

Now what's the voltage requirement for your RAM? 2.0V? 2.1V? Increase that by 0.05V, turn up the FSB/HT Link by another 1MHz, and test again. Even with the EPP/SLI profiles in the RAM, giving it extra juice will be important to squeezing every last drop of performance out of it.

Just remember that you want to keep all your voltage levels within 5% at first. So if your CPU's VCore is 1.25V, do not increase it by more than 0.0625 for now. If your RAM's stock voltage is 2.1V, do not increase it by more than 0.105 for now. This is just for the initial phase of figuring out which components need how much juice to increase their speed.

[TopChip7]

Thanks Saph' - I can see you put a lot of work into that reply.

Is the FSB/HT the NB - SB HT?

Also cant find PCI bus anywhere in bios??? Found the PCI-e bus but not the PCI. Would it be called something else?

[saphalline]

Yeah, the NForce 5 series chipsets are a single chip design. So the HT Link of the CPU will be the HT Link between the NorthBridge and SouthBridge, since the CPU's onboard memory controller is effectively the NorthBridge.

The PCI bus may be strapped to the PCIe bus. If there's no option for the PCI bus anywhere, I wouldn't worry about it. That's a $200 Asus mobo made for OC'ing! They wouldn't overlook something like that.

I'll have to take a look at your mobo's manual to be sure of all this, though.

Also, while you are OC'ing and messing with all these options, keep a notebook handy. Record a 3DMark 06 run at stock speeds. Keep a log of all your OC'ing steps and your 3DMark 06 scores. This will be especially important when you start messing with the voltages. Keep track of the speeds you attain at what voltage settings, and when your CPU stops and the RAM voltage increases begin.

[TopChip7]

Nice one.

I started to increase the FSB but 3dMark06 score is decreasing not increasing?
Stability is certainly not an issue as yet.
Q:/ Should I continue?

I feel if the WHOLE system can be overclocked following the instructions you gave, this is going to run like a runaway freight train as the other day I overclocked the video card by increasing PCI-e to 105mhz, GPU from 450 to 587mhz, MEM clock from 660 (1320) to 740 (1480) with no stability issues at all - however vid card temp did rise a bit (upto 50c after 2 runs of 3dmark06). 3Dmark06 score with no oc was 4415 and increased to 5126. At no time has the pc ever crashed. The only time it does is when I increase CPU clock - even by 1mhz lol.

[TopChip7]

OK. I haven't done anything except increase the NB -> SB HT and ran 3dMark06 each time. The scores are as follows.

MHz 3dM SM2 SM3/HDR CPU
---- ----- ---- -------- ----

200 4441 1792 1760 1778
210 4439 1793 1754 1793
220 4453 1790 1759 1823
230 4436 1791 1759 1772
235 4455 1791 1761 1817
240 4443 1791 1761 1782

I cant see that increasing the FSB is making any difference what-so-ever.
System has not crashed yet and I dont expect it to until FSB gets some 40mhz faster.

[saphalline]

Oh cr@p! I forgot one thing. You need to lock your specs down for the HT Link and CPU multiplier. Ok, you've got a 2.4GHz CPU, which means your multiplier is 12.0x. Change that in the BIOS from AUTO to 12X. Change your HT Link specs from AUTO to 5X. Also, make sure the stats are set for 16up/16down (change it from AUTO if applicable).

Make those changes, go back to stock, and start over. Sorry about that.

[TopChip7]

Nope - same problem......

What I ever I do to overclock the system results in failure to shut down the pc and a manual reset is required which then results in having to go in to the bios to reboot.

??????? The whole system runs fine - 3DMark06 works great - it is ONLY the shut down I seem to be having problems with - windows closes at it should, the monitor turns off as it should, everything happens exactly as it should except the pc dont turn off!!!!

Strange hey?

[saphalline]

Could be a power setting in the BIOS, or a failure of Windows to kill threads in time, or a dying CMOS battery, or a peripheral causing a device hang, etc.

Not really sure what to tell you on that one. Does it also happen at stock settings? Strange problem, but I've never experienced it myself on a new system.

[TopChip7]

It only happens when changing the settings. The system never hangs on stock/auto. I know it will overclock - after I get the message to reset the settings, if I press F1 it will continue to boot past the error. I've had it running at 2.64 Ghz before it crashed using the AI Booster & AI NOS.

Because it's the expert memory with the voltage display etc, I've seen the RAM working at DDR882 so I also know that will overclock pretty well.

I'm pretty sure that if I can get the system to shut down properly just once, the problem would be solved - I've never had this problem before, my last S939 board with 3000+ cpu overclocked like a dream - had that running at 2.3Ghz instead of 1.8Ghz.

I know it's not a cooling problem - cpu and ram running around 40c fully loaded.

With regards to the power settings, maybe I could try setting the voltage settings manually? I have a slight difference in the voltage going to the ram - one is 2.03v the other is 1.91v - this is on auto setting and the difference in temperatures is about 8c between them on full load and 4c idle.

Dont think it's a failure for windows to kill threads as I've tried logging off windows before total shut down.

Just goes to show you that no matter how much you spend on top quality parts, things can still go wrong - £165 for mobo. £217 for DDR. £165 for CPU.
Give me back my Abit KN8SLi please !!! lol

[TopChip7]

Do you think that I should change the timings of the ram to 5.5.5.18.2T instead of 4.4.4.12.2T ???? Perhaps the latency is set too high for anything other than stock?

Only choices for Ram frequency is DDR 400, 600, 800, and Auto.

Is there anyway to cancel or overwrite the SPD ?
Would that help or not make any difference?

[saphalline]

I know it will overclock - after I get the message to reset the settings, if I press F1 it will continue to boot past the error.Ok, wait. Back up. What error do you get on boot up? Is it a BIOS error? Have you replaced the CMOS battery on this new mobo yet?

[TopChip7]

The usual one when you have to switch it off without shut down.

****Warning: System BOOT Fail ****
Your system last boot fail or POST interrupted.
Please enter setup to load default and reboot again.

Press F1 to continue, DEL to enter Set-up.


Pressing F1 at this stage will boot the pc - however when looking in system it still reads 2.4Ghz and DDR frequency is returned back to 401.9mhz.


************************************************** ***

Of course, my mobo tells me the error it hangs on in plain english kind of on a little LCD screen at the rear.... !

Error message on hang is DETDRAM. On reboot after manual reset first operation message is TESTVRAM.

Now according to the manual debug code table DETDRAM is:

Detect Memory
-Auto detection of DRAM size, type and ECC
-Auto detection of L2 cache (socket 7 or below)

TESTVRAM

Initialize multi-language
Put information on screen display, including Award title, CPU type, CPU Speed.

************************************************** *******

Does this help???? Please say yes, please say yes.

[TopChip7]

I am starting to be even more convinced it has something to do with the low latency or SPD settings in the EPP

[madad2005]

If you're overclocking the CPU, you should be benching with Prime95 or SuperPI rather than 3DMark, as processor speed won't have that much of an effect on its overall score. Once you find an overclock that you believe is stable, run prime95 (dual if you have a dual-core cpu) overnight to see if it gives any errors.

For that error code, your RAM timings don't seem to have been accepted. Your overclock has definitely failed. How far have you pushed the FSB at this point? You should pull back a few Mhz and see if it works then. You might have to run memtest to make sure your RAM is stable.

[TopChip7]

It doesnt matter how far the fsb is pushed. If I o/c by just 3mhz the system wont shut down properly. Sure it's something to do with the ram timings and perhaps CPR (CPU Parameter Recall) which is built into the mobo drivers.

No longer think this is an overclocking problem - think it has more to do with bios settings, mobo features & ddr SPD EPP settings.

I know this mobo & parts will take anything I throw at it - every part is quality built - convinced I can add 20% as a minimum to the overclock but as it stands with something not quite right I cant even o/c 1% ???

Going to try now with the SPD profile disabled. Back in 2 mins lol

[TopChip7]

OK.... atleast I managed to get some overclock out of it.

1) Dropped the timings down to 5.5.5.18.2T.

2) Disabled EPP SPD settings

3) Selected DDR 667 instead of 800

Increased CPU Frequency to 213 pushing it up to 2.56Ghz. All other settings left to default minimum. Cannot get anymore out of it - Windows will not load any higher than that.
DDR short of power I think, as the Expert Memory Display goes to 0 Voltage then turns off.

Now I'm sure there are a few things I can do here such as increase the ram voltage for one!

However - does anyone actually know whether the system is faster at 2.4Ghz using DDR 800 or will it be faster at 2.56Ghz using DDR 667.

Answers on a postcard - lol - I'll run a couple of 3dMark06 tests now to compare results.

[jlreich]

This is just a thought, but I had similar problems when I built my last personal machine. My s939 AMD64 3000+ would not OC more than 7MHz without getting the exact same shutdowns you are getting.

Well in my case the PSU I was using wasn't adequate. I got an Antec TPII 550W and problems are solved. Even after I added a new video card that required more power I have a nice OC on both the CPU and v-card with no problems.

Your Antec SmartPower 500W seems like it would be enough, but I am wondering with your v-card, HDD's in raid 0, X-Fi sound card, high performance ram, and dual core CPU maybe it isn't enough?

Also since it is a modular PSU I would check that the cable connections at the PSU are good and tight.

There's also the possibility that the CPU just isn't going to OC.

Just some thoughts.

[TopChip7]

mmm.... Looks like cpu just isnt a good overclocker.

Have got it a 2.56Ghz DDR 667 4.4.4.12.2T but it wont budge another 1mhz at all.

Increase voltage on DDR to 2.1v which has made no difference whatsoever.

Real shame because graphic card running at 566 / 1476. The mem clock wont go any higher on it but I may be able to squeeze a bit more out of the GPU. It's only a stock 7900GT 450/1320mhz so quite please with that.

3dMark06 score - stock levels 4411
3dMark06 score - overclocked 5285

Can someone please tell me what the fsb actually does - if it is the NB-SB H/T then that will keep going up and up and up. Got it at about 230mhz now but it isnt making any difference at all to the 3dMark06 scoring and no matter how high it is set, it wont let me push the CPU or DDR any further.

Is it worth trying to up the voltage on the DDR anymore?


Thank You Everyone For All Your Help, Thoughts and Feedback.
Most appreciated!

[vaio]

Have you tried stepping back the ram to take it out of the equation?
Lower the HT multi to 3x and find the limit of the cpu alone???

Also, what vcore are you running at?

[saphalline]

Have you replaced the CMOS battery on this new mobo yet?You still haven't answered this question yet. This is imperative to a new build meant for OC'ing! The battery that comes with the mobo is often drained. I replace them now as soon as I get a new mobo.

[TopChip7]

Still hope then???

No Saphalline, I haven't replaced the cmos battery yet - I don't think I've ever replaced one in any pc I've ever had (naughty) - I will try and get one today.

No Vaio, I haven't tried that either - will give that a go once I've gone and found a cmos battery - Sure vcore is set to auto. Only voltage I've changed is the ddr. I did read a review about stepping back the HT - think I'd better get a calculator out to start working out the frequency.

Believe the DDR is going to have to run at 667 - sure there is something about the frequency of the CPU must be divisible by 400 if it is to use DDR800. I actually posted the ratio chart on one of the threads a couple of weeks ago after I found it on another site - if anyone can remember which thread it was in...... lol

Think what I'll do is write down ALL of the settings in the bios - there are heck of a lot more than in any bios I've ever had on previous pc's so may be I am missing something there. Will post on here later on today.

Many Thanks Guys ;)

[TopChip7]

CMOS Battery replaced.

Some of the BIOS settings under heading of Extreme Tweaker as follows:

A I Tuning - Manual/Auto/Standard/AI Overclock/AI NOS

*****************

Overclock Options - (only available when AI Overclock selected) - Disabled/OC 3%/OC 5%/OC 8%/OC 10%

*****************

N.O.S.Mode - (only available when AI NOS selected) - Auto/Manual
N.O.S.Sensitivity - Normal/Sensitive/Less Sensitive
N.O.S.Overclock - 3%/5%/8%/10%

*****************

Overclocking -
CPU Frequency - Auto/200mhz - 400mhz
CPU Multiplier - Auto/5x - 12x
Memory Clock Frequency - Auto/DDR2 400, 533,667,800
PCI-EX_1 Clock - Auto/100mhz - 200mhz
PCI-EX_2 Clock - Auto/100mhz - 200mhz
CPU<->NB HT Speed - Auto/1xCPU Frequency - 5xCPU Frequency
NB to SB HT Frequency - Auto/200mhz - 400mhz
NB to SB HT Speed - 1x - 5x
SB to NB HT Speed - 1x - 5x
CPU <-> NB HT Width - 8/16
NB <-> SB HT Width - 8/16

******************

DRAM CONFIGURATION - (Loads of options on voltage etc so wont list that)
SLI - Ready Memory - Disabled/Optimal/High Performance/High Frequency
SLI - Ready Memory CPUOC - 0%-14%/Max

[saphalline]

Some very interesting options there. I am curious as to how the manual explains the SLI/EPP RAM configurations. If you set the SLI RAM options, what should the "Memory Clock Frequency" be set to? AUTO or DDR2 800?

Ok, so OC'ing the CPU requires you to set a decimal value for the "CPU Frequency" option (this is the root value of the HT Link speed given to the CPU by the system clock crystal). "AI Tuning" should of course be set to manual. The "CPU Multiplier" should be locked at 12X. "PCI-EX_1 Clock" and "PCI-EX_2 Clock" should be locked at 100MHz for now. The "CPU<->NB HT Speed" should be locked at "5xCPU Frequency". The "NB to SB HT Frequency" should be locked at 200MHz for now, for testing/stability purposes. The "NB to SB HT Speed" and "SB to NB HT Speed" should both be set to 5X. The "CPU <-> NB HT Width" and "NB <-> SB HT Width" should both be set to 16.

With all of those set, you should have a nice stable locked-down system for OC'ing goodness. You just need to read the manual on operating the RAM with its SLI/EPP, and set the appropriate values for the CPU & RAM voltages.