Microsoft Attempts to Bully The European Commision?

[Laguna]

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Microsoft_backtracks_on_Vista_delay_accusations

Is it just me or does that seem like bullying to you? I mean they acknowledged that the EC had 4 complaints but Microsoft have generously said that they will only fix one of them....That to me sounds like bullying...

[SufferWell1396]

haha this is exactly what will happen to mickeysoft...

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i107/SufferWell1396/yay.jpg

[tommy]

Re thread title -- Or is it the other way around???:confused:

[deddard]

A bit more up to date news on the Vista/European Union saga:

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/95707/microsoft-strikes-deal-with-eu-over-vista.html

In brief:
MS are actually looking as if they will now allow AV products with a new kernel level API being developed.

IE7 will not have Windows Live Search as it's default search

Are going to 'shortly' release their xml equivalent to PDF to a standards agency (presumably to make it open)

as for bullying, MS has to be careful launching a new OS - this is the perfect time to stop it, and the EU know this. The EU imposed fines etc on XP related issues, but could hardly ban it because it was already in circulation.

They can however say 'you ain't releasing this in Europe, so go take a hike' for any new product, including VISTA.

[Laguna]

Re thread title -- Or is it the other way around???

So basically what you are saying is that we should bend the law for Micro$oft?
That was blatently Micro$oft trying to bully their crap into the EU.
I mean "We are aware the EC don't give green lights, and we are not asking for one..." Really?Are you not?Then why the hell are you trying to release the product in the EU?Why are you making changes to the OS to suit the EC?
It's because you want a green light!!!For God's sake M$ is just full of arrogant idiots!
And thankfully they were beaten this time and are going to comply with the EC.
Now if only the EC had the same policy for spyware we would all be happy.
Built in WGA and the activation every 180 days or so, is the reason I won't touch this

What I want now is more information on the media copyright protection within Vista.And how extreme it is.

[Variable]

Laguna did you read the article? There is no mention of: I mean they acknowledged that the EC had 4 complaints but Microsoft have generously said that they will only fix one of them

Not sure where you got this. Here is the whole quote I found. The four suggestions are for fixing the issues (plural) that the EU has and MS gave them 4 options to choose from and asked to pick the one that they wanted.
In July Smith revealed that Microsoft had offered to make changes to Vista and had, in fact, asked the Commission to tell it which potential changes would meet its requirements. "We told the Commission that we would be prepared to do any one of... four things and they could simply tell us which of those things they wanted us to do," said Smith at the time.

I think if the EU makes too much trouble MS should just not release it commercially in EU countries. Consumers will still be able to buy it unless, the EU goes fascist and starts telling the people what they can and cannot purchase over the web.... Perhaps they can put guards at Fed Ex hubs with specially trained Microsoft Vista smelling dogs.

I wonder if the EU bans terror training videos or drug lab how-to CD's?

Maybe the combined intellectual power of all EU countries could be harnessed into making a really good operating system to compete with MS - you know, a totally free market start-up to compete on an even playing field with US companies... just like Airbus. That would scare the bejesus out of MS. Probably put them on the straight and narrow right quick I'd wager.

[tommy]

So basically what you are saying is that we should bend the law for Micro$oft?


No, that is not what I said.

In the past MSFT as well as General Electric, Boeing and a few others I can't recall offhand passed muster with the US authorities only to be stymied (or is that blackmailed?) by the EU.

It seems to me that the US should recognize initial rulings by the EU and the EU should recognize initial rulings by the US. Why put a company thru the grinder twice. It only adds cost and usually accomplishes very little. Very often both US and EU authorities are trying to micromanage a company.

Competition is the answer in the long run!

[Laguna]

Have you read the items removed from the OS for the EU release?
If not I suggest you do as the EU are getting the best outcome with Vista because of the EC laws.

And variable,

"We told the Commission that we would be prepared to do any one of four things and they could simply tell us which of those things they wanted us to do" said Smith.

One of four things at that point meant one out of the four things wrong would be willingly fixed by M$.One out of four things that were breaking the EC laws would be fixed.One isn't all therefore M$ thought they could bully the other 3 items onto the EU.Atleast thats how it looks from my point of view.

And tommy

And why should the company be put through the grinder twice?
Well is everyone forgetting this is M$ we are talking about?
Since when do we care about their troubles?They do nothing but make trouble for us.And also the US laws are all well and good to agree with for the US people as the US is one country.The EC has to pass laws for multiple countries.And have to find ways of suiting everyone.

And with that point aside, every country has their own laws.
And you are saying why don't the US laws for Vista just apply everywhere?
So are you trying to say that the laws you abide by are the right ones?
And everywhere else is wrong?So everyone should just tag along with what the US says yeah?

The EU is a very big market for M$ and they wouldn't even think about not releasing here.And why shouldn't they?

[Budfred]

I am reluctant to get involved in this debate since it has to do with basic political and philosophical differences about economics... However, I want to point out that many in the USA believe that MS pulled off an end run around the monopoly laws by using political influence to get the government to back off during one of the most right wing conservative administrations in the history of this country... In my opinion, it has never been about fair competition, it is about who has the most clout in Washington and the most money to bully people with... In this case, the answer is MS... They are still a huge monopoly that eats other companies or drives them out of business... The settlements made with them were tokens to get the cases settled and get on with the conservative agenda... All of that said, the EU has every right to apply their anti-monopoly laws to the situation and I hope that we in the USA benefit from their efforts... If our country doesn't have the will, I am glad they do...

[Laguna]

I think you explained my points better than I did Budfred.:D

[deddard]

For those who may think otherwise, this has got nothign to do with US bashing from those of us in the UK or Europe.
As Budfred pointed out, MS has huge political power in the US, but as their taxes aren't directly paid to the EU, they can take a bit more of an independent view of things.
There are many European monopolies which have been broken up or prevented by the EU parliament, and trying to monopolise anything, or impose unfair contract terms tends to raise eyebrows.
It would be great if MS allowed the same OS to be released everywhere, including the US, with the extra rules imposed by the EU.
One thing we should all be grateful to the EU for is the security in Vista. Everyone (except MS) recognise that not having the ability to protect the kernel with a good, independent AV is tantamount to worldwide computer suicide, and the EU have effectively forced MS to allow at least some steps into protecting the kernel.

Many of us over in the UK moan about the EU parliament (they can come up with some seriously stupid laws, such as bananas have to be straight....)
but sometimes they do come up with stuff that makes us a bit happier.
THis is one of those times.

[Laguna]

Well put Deddard,
I hope there are more steps taken towards letting other security programs completely protect the Kernal.And lets hope the built in WGA has a work around.
Thats one of the main things that is scaring me off Vista.

[Variable]

This is becoming a conspiracy thread which is far more interesting than Vista.

The Bush admin is now in league with MS and MS does not pay taxes directly to the EU.

I guess Deddard meant that the EU doesn't have a tax form. But I believe that the countries inside the EU collect taxes from MS sales and some of this money goes to the EU. The same is true of the US Department of Justice. They do not collect taxes but get tax revenue through the IRS, which in turn sucks money (much like a vampire) from The People. I am not sure how you could make the case that either entity is any less susceptible to political pressures.

I wonder if the court case against MS browser fell apart because you don't need to use IE to surf the web. I think many in the US believe the whole idea that IE was a monopoly was a waste of tax dollars. The case was flawed from the start and the government spent a great deal of tax payer’s money for nothing. Surely they could have come up with a better case than saying IE was a monopoly during the hay day of AOL and Netscape freely available. No one from the DOJ has ever resigned in protest that I know of saying, that they were pressured to resolve the case even though they would have won in court. Surely five years later someone would have written a tell-all book and made a few million.

http://news.com.com/2100-1001-852709.html

I think it would be great if the EU stops worldwide computer suicide. It sounds to me like they have saved MS from finally forcing people to look elsewhere. But I don't see how that fits with breaking up a monopoly. It strikes the right tone for consumer protection though.

Most of these arguments ring hollow to me. I think the best strategy is a free market. If MS goes overboard cutting out other software vendors profiting from installation on Vista they will cut their own throats. If the MS is chanting “let them eat cake" we should all be ready to lead them down the cobble lined path to the Guillotine.

I think the fear of Vista is rooted in the reality that MS will not have its head lopped off by The People and since those in power feel the populace is too stupid to see the truth for them selves, it is their responsibility to protect them. In doing this, they may in fact, be helping MS to win in the end.

[Budfred]

This is becoming a conspiracy thread which is far more interesting than Vista.

The Bush admin is now in league with MS and MS does not pay taxes directly to the EU. Only if you distort what was actually said...

[PrntRhd]

You can be pro MS or anti-MS, the issue is whether MS can make the EU commission look like it is protecting parochial EU interests by bashing US companies or whether real issues will be addressed regarding MS monopoly power.
Each commission or country seems to feel they are supreme. The US courts are doing similar things in the Spamhaus case, an ugly legal ruling was issued where the court wants a third party to decertify Spamhaus due to a spammer who got a ruling against Spamhaus even though Spamhaus does not have any business in the US and the spammer in question was not even on their list.