I’m about through with these CRTs – will and LCD monitor put my mind at ease?

[Curious Cleatus The 3rd]

Hey guys,

Well, after screwing with this Samsung SyncMaster 955DF CRT and finding that I’m one of those people who can’t stand imperfections, such as the geometry being WAY off and having to re-adjust the damn screen each time I turn the computer on, let alone after opening and closing windows, I’m now considering an LCD monitor, preferably a 19”. I know that there are definitely some great CRTs out there that stay consistent, but since no 2 monitors are the same it’s not worth the gamble for me. You should read some of these reviews on the Sony G400s; they’re equally hated, as they are loved. I bought one of these Sony’s the other day and the damn thing was worse than the Samsung! I took it back for another one – same freak’n problem, only with the free additional bowing at the bottom of the screen! So now, what I would like to know is, what kinds of problems are inherent with LCD monitors? Do these type of monitors have geometry problems? Problems with unbalanced color like I’m hearing (and have experienced) about a lot of the Sony G400s? Do LCD screens resize themselves when there is a color contrast from dark to light between windows and menus, or when the system is off then turned on again? I’m aware of their cost; I could score one for under a grand and it better be worth it. All of the stuff listed here is what I’m having to deal with and it’s driving me up the freak’n wall. If an LCD monitor would solve all of this I would be very, very happy. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as always, as well as hearing about your guys’ experiences with your LCDs. Thanks a bunch!

[Ghost_Hacker]

We have a couple of LCDs at work from IBM. Haven't experinced any of the problems you've mention. I did spend a few days researching LCDs before I brought them. Sadly, I no longer have those notes. But our greatest concern was "viewing angle". LCDs ( at least at the time we made our purchase 2 years ago) have very precise angles of view and if you move outside of those angles the screen color and "readablity" change. The IBMs we got have very big "angles" and we've been very happy with them.

Edit Look for TFT LCD monitors. Monitors with this technology offer the best picture. There are some newer LCD technologies out there that are said to rival TFT. I don't have first hand knowledge of these, so can't offer any comments.


Good luck http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif



[This message has been edited by Ghost_Hacker (edited 02-02-2002).]

[kayofcircles]

Your post has saved us tons of money on that Samsung I thought I wanted. Sort of kinda want a flat screen (I think..lol), but don't really want to spend the money on a LCD. Need to go look again for reviews on a KDS monitor we saw down at Sam's Club..reasonably priced..looked okay on the display.

Unfortunately, though, I have a new worry. Recently someone asked me to look at some Web pics, and they were seeing things I can't see on my monitor. Raises some scary thoughts on Webpage creation! sob...

[buck52]

One thing I found when I was looking at monitors was to make sure you have them let you see actual web pages and real web images when you compare...The pre-programed displays they have running can be very deceiving. I have a Viewsonics A95f CRT flat panel that I am very happy with. It has an ever so slight bow effect at the top only...once I got the rest of the settings the way I liked they have stayed that way. I did not care for any of the LCD's that I tried but I'm not sure if they had the "TFT" technology Ghost_Hacker spoke of.

just my 2¢

buck

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just hav'n fun

[iisbob]

I happen to love Samsung monitors; they are some of the best i've ever used-i've currently got a Syncmaster 753DF ( dynaflat ) and it's performed %110 all the time. I'm waiting for the LCD's to come in at 24" before i buy one. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

And their visual quality { LCD's }, while improving, are still no match for a good CRT. Of which the many Samsung's i've owned are one.

More than likely you had a video card driver problem-9 times out of 10 when there is a display issue it's video card related. The very few ( and i do mean very few ) times i've worked on a system and it's been monitor related was because the monitor was just outclassed by the other PC components; why people build absolutely the most state of the art system and then stick with their old monitor is beyond me. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Try getting new vid card drivers before you go out and put a chunk of money down on a new LCD.

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iisbob

CPU= 5mhz
Memory= 16 K
Storage=10.2MB's
Video=Onboard S3 4K
Modem=14.4 baud
Sound=ISA Yamaha 8bit
Mouse=2 button MS
Monitor=ACER 12.5"
OS= { dual boot }DOS 2.1 & WIN 3.1

My ultimate gaming system http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by iisbob (edited 02-02-2002).]

[Curious Cleatus The 3rd]

You know, I would have been able to live very happily with this Samsung SyncMaster if the damn screen would have just stayed where I put it. When the screen was stretched almost all the way out to the edges the monitor was awesome, until you turn the computer on again and see that it's not there anymore. The reason I don't think it's the video card is because the reviews I read on this thing said to expect these things. Being the smart shopper that I am I read the reviews after I bought the monitor (couldn’t return it unless I wanted to pay $50 to ship it back + restocking fee). Also, my curved screen monitors (Acer and Dell) never had these problems, but maybe it's the flat technology.

Is TFT the digital LCDs? Basically, all I would be able to afford is an analog LCD. Are the analog ones worth the money, say $800 for an 18.1" viewable screen?

You mentioned something about the viewing angle; so if I were to stand up and look down at the monitor it will look totally different, possibly even unreadable, and similar to an LCD display on a calculator? Thank you all for the replies.

[Ghost_Hacker]

Ok, I dugup some of the same information I had a couple of years ago http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

First a TFT monitor can be either analog or digital depending on it's signal. Analog monitors ,as you proably already know, produce a far greater range of grey scale than do digital monitors. TFT does not refer to the type of signal used. You'll want to make sure that any LCD monitor you do buy has the right connections for your type of video card. (most video cards are analog with a few that have connections for both. The IBM LCDs we use have connectors for both analog and digital. We use the analog connection and for us it was worth it http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif )

TFT is an active matrix screen they can be more expensive than the passive matrix types. TFT uses a thin diode to better seperate pixels from the rest of the display element's charge producing a sharper and better contrasted picture.

Calucaltors use passive matrix which uses rows and columes of electrodes. The problem with these displays is that an active "pixel" will bled it's charge into the pixels near it creating less contrast and degrading the image. This effect increase with the resolution of the display.


For more details see this link: http://www.ee.washington.edu/circuit_archive/text/LCD.html


You mentioned something about the viewing angle; so if I were to stand up and look down at the monitor it will look totally different, possibly even unreadable, and similar to an LCD display on a calculator?

Yes, that effect is what I was talking about. You can also see it with laptop computers.


Hope this helps http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Ghost_Hacker (edited 02-03-2002).]

[buck52]

Thanks for the explanation Ghost_Hacker

"You mentioned something about the viewing angle; so if I were to stand up and look down at the monitor it will look totally different, possibly even unreadable, and similar to an LCD display on a calculator? "

that was my experience with the two brands of LCD's that I tried.( Samsung 17"...Viewsonics 17") Seemed like very little movement side to side or up and down changed the image on the screen noticeably.

buck

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just hav'n fun

[kayofcircles]

Curious : Don't be too hard on yourself. What usually happens to me is that I go and read reviews first..choose one I want..and then can't find anywhere to buy it. Or, in the case of a CD Writer I wanted, couldn't find anywhere that sold it with the software in the reviews. So almost always end up on Choice B, or C...sigh.

Ghost : Always blown away by how much you know..is nice to have one's teachers be so SMART! (By the by, if you'd like to go to the After Hours section and write an opinion on Enterprise..I have been curious about your reactions to it.)

Buck: Thanks! One needs a model number to search for that sort of thing, and I always give more weight to customer opinions. Will see if I can find the one you have.

[not_fred]

A couple of other things to consider...

Most LCD monitors will not track motion as well as a mid-range CRT. If you play much fast video, you may well be disappointed in a new direction.

For a given size and resolution, CRT's are far less expensive than LCD's. Make sure you weight the hassle of return-till-right against the additional expense.

Tom's hdw reviewed this issue a couple of weeks ago (http://www.tomshardware.com/display/02q1/020114/index.html (http://http://)) looking at several LCD monitors in addition to the LCD vs. CRT issue.

After extended reflection, I waited until Best Buy had a large rebate on a 19" Mag 986FS. Both it and the Samsung SyncMaster900SL perform acceptably for their cost.

[Curious Cleatus The 3rd]

Thanks a lot everyone and thanks for digging up that info Ghost! Now, I don’t know what to do at all. See, I do play with video – I just got an ATI All-In-Wonder Radeon 32MB DDR video card for that. Mainly, though, I am a musician. I move around a lot from instruments to my amp and to mics and what not and if an LCD monitor can’t accommodate that then that’s really gonna drive me up the wall. I didn’t know you had to look directly at them for them to be clear. Can anyone recommend a great CRT 19” flat screen that you know doesn’t have the problems that this Samsung has? At this point I’m starting to not care about the cost. I would spend $800 on a great CRT over an LCD as long as I could walk around and still have the screen look the same from any angle. Are geometry problems to be expected with all CRT flat screens, regardless of price? The Sony I bought and returned had a little gray line running across the screen. You could see it on light backgrounds. Shadow wires inherent to the Trinitron technology.

And thanks a lot everyone for putting up with my petty complaints.

May I should just get a big screen TV (50”) and hook it up to my video card, eh?

[not_fred]

Not always able to help - all choices can go wrong. There is not a perfect answer.

Gensel's Laws come to mind:

1. You can't win.

2. You can't break even.

3. You can't get out of the game.

[kayofcircles]

LOL..not_fred! My husband says there is an old song with "Life SUCKS, and then you die." And I often think of the one that says something along the lines of "If it wasn't for bad luck, we'd have no luck at all!"

Curious: I went off researching some monitors yesterday. Viewsonic recommended above, and checked on the KDS monitor we saw at Sam's reasonably priced. I believe that both are considered good brands (and someone once told me that KDS makes nothing but monitors so strives to maintain a good rep). But I was more impressed with selection at Viewsonic's website, AND their pages listed all the various resolutions and refresh rates way more comprehensively...so I am leaning toward a flat screen Viewsonic. Just uncertain as to whether I want a "regular" flat screen, or a "graphics" one...sigh. Buck makes a very good suggestion above, but we have never seen any stores where you can take the monitor online..but I did delay purchase on the Samsung because it didn't compare well at the store with the others. And we asked the clerk to come and fool with it cuz thought maybe maladjusted..but he didn't know how and display got much worse with him fooling with it. So, would suggest you find somewhere to see a bunch of monitors..even if they're just displaying that same tape.

[This message has been edited by kayofcircles (edited 02-05-2002).]

[Brant]

Curious, I have found Hitachi Monitors to be the best in quality, price and dependability. They also have a flat panel Enhanced TFT monitor which the veiwing angles are 80 degrees and rival CRTs. But they are quite expensive, around $900 for an 18 inch. However, they do have probably the best 19 inch CRT for around $250. If you want to order on line, I would go to www.pricewatch.com (http://www.pricewatch.com) and look up 19 inch monitors. The model CM721F is the best for the money. big dif between the CM715 and the CM721F. You can see them at www.Hitachidisplays.com (http://www.Hitachidisplays.com)

[This message has been edited by Brant (edited 02-05-2002).]

[bassvax]

Well...I don't know what happened with the 955DF..but like iisbob I have 2 of the 753DF's from Samsung and I love them...I took a lot of the knowledge that was at Dans Data (http://www.dansdata.com) and selected a monitor based upon mostly that...

Kay Word on the street is that KDS (Korean Data Systems) is the bad apple...no personal experience here though...I know a couple of the local shops use them exclusively mostly due to the cheap price...Samsung is the higher end Korean product..IMO. As far as the Viewsonics go...if those damper wires bother you..don't get one using Aperture Grille Pitch technology as opposed to the Shadow Masking Technology of the Samsungs. Just ask to look at a Viewsonic (other brands as well even Sony uses AGP technology) make sure to look at the screen with several diff colored backgrounds..at about one-third way from top there will be a faint horizontal line stretching across the screen...there is another near the bottom third as well...

Good luck there Cletus

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See Emily Play

Flush 'N' Forget (http://www2.apex.net/users/hwuswtp)

[kayofcircles]

Thanks for tips and links...will check them out.

[not_fred]

I used a KDS at work for a couple of years. Mediocre performance, IMHO.

[Curious Cleatus The 3rd]

How far off is the color on a decent LCD? I’m not doing graphics or video for a living, but just as a hobby (music is a living). I would like it to be decent, though. I mean it’s not as serious as red appearing as purple, white appearing as tan, or blue appearing as green, is it? Are there any good examples of how the color may be off? Thanks again

[Ghost_Hacker]

I mean it’s not as serious as red appearing as purple, white appearing as tan, or blue appearing as green, is it?

No, it's not that bad. The colors fade out and the contrast changes as the viewing angle increases beyond what the monitor is designed for. Sort of like looking at the display thur a Photoshop filter. But as long as your within the right angle the colors are fine.



[This message has been edited by Ghost_Hacker (edited 02-08-2002).]

[kayofcircles]

Sorry to revisit "old", but I am still stuck in indecision. For me, price is a factor (flat screen not high on "necessity" list, but am influenced by what iisbob said in another thread about getting a new system and then putting it on an old monitor). We drove to big city last weekend to find that the Viewsonic A70f and Philips 107T21 were displayed at Office Depot. Same price basically. The Philips "looked" slightly better to me, but I am accustomed to looking at a small 15" monitor that is only 11 inches horizontally..and the Philips was not going to edges of screen. (Clerk showed me how to do that on Viewsonic.) Secondly, the Philips is smaller so would "fit" on my desk better. Does anyone have a Philips...and do you like it? I found a review comparing several monitors..review basically said that both of the above monitors had a slight grayish tint to display, but Philips used less energy while other specs comparable.
bassvax: I looked for "lines" and didn't see any in store. There was flickering in one corner on all the monitors..but we changed the display and it went away...so was in the "projector", not the monitors. And you would recommend the Philips because of the shadow mask? I can't find any mention of either aperture grill or shadow mask on the A70f..so assume former. However, all that aside, Best Buy still has the Samsung 753DF..so would that be your recommendation?
Curious : All the monitors were running same pic, and I looked at the two LCDs on display. Pic was autumn leaves..golden leaves on trees on shady road. All the CRT's looked pretty much the same, color wise, but LCDs quite different in shading..almost to orange on those leaves, and shady ground almost black. I work with pics..it's enough of a nightmare wondering what "color" another will see without it leaving my puter looking like that! And pic changed considerably as said above by angle of view. I think you should save your money and get a good CRT. At least you'll be seeing the same basic colors as most others. (I think most are still using CRTs.)

[not_fred]

kay;

Samsung used to make some "short-neck" monitors that fit better in limited space. I have a SyncMaster 900SL (short-neck) with which I'm pretty happy.

Sorry to hear about your trip to the big city. I always try to avoid that, myself. Can't stand the place.

[kayofcircles]

I hear that. Office Depot wasn't too bad cuz most decent folk were in church, but later in the day stores too crowded for much browsing and drooling over things. We put off trips to ABQ for as long as possible.

Thanks for short neck tip. Will check that out. Think probably in the end, I will just have to choose one available and hope for the best.

[Pianorak]

Kay Of the three monitors I have, I much prefer the Dell which has a 17" Trinitron tube with 15.65" VIS, .26dpi. Brilliant colour, flicker-free picture.
However, I realize that many people are put off by the two horizontal wires running across the screen - which, by now, I have learnt to ignore.
Just my two cents. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/cool.gif


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The PC Guide ueber alles – with Google a close second.

[Ghost_Hacker]

I agree with Pianorak and ,untill bassvax mentioned it, had never noticed the lines before. But now that I see them, it doesn't bother me at all.