socket A mobo input requested

[psabi]

I've read through some of the older posts looking for some input. Came across some info with iisbob's ECS K7S5a. Was just at a computer show and noticed that ECS were the cheapest boards being sold (as well as amptron). Other than bob's experience, is ECS garbage ("get what you pay for"?)

What about the hybrid memory boards? I've come across a couple that support DDR and SDRAM (not at the same time). This would be ideal but not sure if rarity of these boards equates to them being total garbage. I only recall seeing them with an ALI chipset. In any case, a board that supports only DDR is not an option at this point.

At first I was looking for an AMD approved board but that can limit the choices. After reading some of the reviews (thru tom's hardware and motherboards.org) i entered a gray area because they were talking up brands I previous thought were crap.

This is the first new motherboard I would be acquiring. Up until now, they have all been hand-me-downs or recycled. I think I found it easier to buy my house and my car...

Suggestions on where to buy? Pricewatch is real nifty to compare prices but I went to some of the sites that listed the lower prices - they looked like somebody slapped them together yesterday, misspellings and all. They didn't instill a lot of faith, trust...

As much as I would love to patronize the local mom/pop computer shop, the ones I have checked out not only had significantly higher prices for less than the cutting edge of technology. I'll pay a little more for confidence but I don't want to get screwed in the process.

I know many people just want the participants in this forum to essentially "do all the research for them"; they just kick out a CPU speed and then want the veterans in the forum to magically have the answer. General or specific, I'm looking for anyone who wants to kick in 2 cents...

Should I only be looking at Abit or ASUS? MSI, Biostar, Chaintech, worthy?
The system will be running a 750 tbird to start; when I upgrade the CPU it will be to a lower level XP chip so the board needs to support 200/266 bus. Hybrid memory would solve a lot of issues for me but if its a horror story just show the way to a board with 3 SDRAM slots. I don't need ISA, RAID, or onboard sound; definitely no onboard video. ATA 100 will do just fine; ATA 133 is always nice but not required (if I ever get a drive that supports it).

I was leaning towards ASUS A7A133 or A7A266 but wanted to see if anyone has brand and/or model I shouldn't overlook.

Either this post was concise and provided enough relevant info or many of the veterans of the forum are hoping I'll release the "CliffsNotes" to this post...

[BigBlue66]

Hello,

There are those here who swear by Abit and Asus. I personally have never used either one. However, I am a big fan of the MSI K7T Turbo2 found at www.accessmicro.com (http://www.accessmicro.com) for about $77 plus shipping.

The board supports up to an Athlon XP 1800+ I think, all flavors of Duron and T-Birds. It supports up to 1.5Gb PC100 or PC133, (three DIMMS as you requested) UDMA 66/100, 200/266Mhz FSB, five PCI slots, one AGP 2.0 4X. It does have onboard sound but that can be disabled easily.

I have one right now that I'm running a 1.4GHz T-Bird 266Mhz and 1.0Gb PC133.

I am so impressed with the speed and stability of this board, that I would buy another one in the blink of an eye. In fact, I bought its big sister, the K7T266 Pro2 along with 512mb of PC2100. I had originally thought I would replace the Turbo2 with the Pro2 but haven't gotten around to it yet. The Turbo2 is doing such a fine job that I am in no hurry to swap it out.

That's my two cents worth. MSI makes stable, feature packed products. I am running an MSI GeForce2 Ti vid board in the wife's computer and I have nothing but good things to say about it, too.

Cheers,

BB 66

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"Once I thought I made a mistake, but turns out it was the other guy."
Myself

[mjc]

I like the ECS board too....but recently some of "total crap" (like PcCHips have gone up tremendously in quality and service...I guess when you have a reputation for being the bottom of the heap there is no where to go but up if you want to remain in business). FOr a high intensity gaming rig, though, I would still go to one of the big boys, but for an all around machine where price matters, one of the other boards will do quite well...

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

[iisbob]

Not quite sure what i { or even if i }should post here; you've already stated that you've seen various Postings by me on the subject of the K7S5a.

Yes, PCChips and ECS don't have the rep of the better known manufacturers { Abit, Asus, Epox,etc...}-however, i've delt with them all over the years, and quite frankly the only vendor i've ever seen give flawless performance was Epox.

I've still got {3} systems running with boards rangeing from 7-3years old, all Epox, and not a single failure in all that time in any of them. I've had tremendous troubles from Asus; so much so that i'll never support/buy another board from them again.

MSI boards have been pretty good, so Have the few Chaintech boards i've serviced. We use Abit boards at work, Used to have a few Gigabyte boards-but replaced them due to faulty power connection's.

For all that you are wanting, i would tell you to go with the ECS K7S5A board-it fill's all your requirements at a more than reasonable price. And as i've no doubt stated many times before; i'm more than pleased with it's performance/quality.

But...if you're not sure, then any Epox board you aquire ( or Abit ) will live up to any expectation's you may have.

I'm actually using a PCChip's board in my home server now, it's up pretty much 24/7-and other than using ECS's BIOS on it-it's not once provided me with any problem's-more than i can say for some other major brands ( and some older PCChip's boards i've had http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif ).

I, and other's , can tell you how great any particular brand is, but You have to go out and physically interact with them to form your own opinion. There is no experiance like first hand experiance. And no matter what vendor you go with, there is always the possibility of getting a lemon.





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iisbob

CPU= 5mhz
Memory= 16 K
Storage=10.2MB's
Video=Onboard S3 4K
Modem=14.4 baud
Sound=ISA Yamaha 8bit
Mouse=2 button MS
Monitor=ACER 12.5"
OS= { dual boot }DOS 2.1 & WIN 3.1

My ultimate gaming system :)

[psabi]

I sat here further debating which board I should purchase. Then I started to think of all of the OTHER signifigant decisions I have made MUCH quicker than deciding on a motherboard. What the hell is wrong with me?

Someone (in the IT field) once told told me to never get attached to computer hardware. I'm starting to think he was right...

Part of my trepidation was ordering from accessmicro; they got a pretty mediocre rating at resellerratings.com but they did better at bizrate. So I took a chance; no better or worse than some of the other sites I originally contemplated buying from.

The winner is:

got the MSI K7T 266 Pro2. I think big blue kinda sold me (indirectly). Read some good writeups on it; happy with the chipset; and the added bonus that it will support my current 750 tbird up till an xp 2000. Hell, it's even a reccommeded board on AMD's site. I decided to make the jump to DDR memory; ordered a stick of 256MB from crucial; I'll order more when I "get on my feet"... I also got a volcano 6 cooler (also reccommended by AMD) and basic case with an AMD approved supply. When everything is said and done the total worked out to be about $250 for all these items with 2nd day air shipping. Funny note: I left the browser windows open last night with my orders ready to be confirmed but disconnected from the web. This morning I checked crucials' site and the stick of memory I ordered was almost 20% more expensive today than yesterday; I did get to put my order in at the old price...

Hopefully within 6 months I'll be on my way to a XP chip as well. When I slap everything together I'll let you know how I made out.

As always, many thanks mjc, bigblue and iisbob...

[BigBlue66]

Wooo Hoooo! MSI wins! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Yes, please do let us know how everything goes. I am curious because like I say, I haven't physcially installed the Pro2 board yet.

Also, if you want a good forum to go to, other than this one http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif, for MSI problems, check out www.amdmb.com (http://www.amdmb.com) and go to the Athlon and then MSI board section. Most of the problems I've seen there are from people not knowing what the heck they're doing.

Have fun!

BB 66

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"Once I thought I made a mistake, but turns out it was the other guy."
Myself

[This message has been edited by BigBlue66 (edited 02-19-2002).]

[BigBlue66]

Also, at the AMD motherboard forum noted above, in the MSI board section, there is an installation guide for the Pro2 board written by one of the regulars. Check it out. It's a sticky post, always at the top.

------------------
This space reserved for highly intelligent observations and witty remarks.

"Once I thought I made a mistake, but turns out it was the other guy."
Myself

[psabi]

blue,

In the process of setting up the new system and pooling parts from old systems, there's been a lot of ground to cover. Couple this with setting up both boxes as dual boot; lots of checklists...

I ordered a case, volcano 6 hsf, and the msi board from accessmicro with 2nd day air shipping. As much as it would have been $13 cheaper to use UPS ground, ground service from california to the wash dc area would have been forever. As I had discovered, accessmicro have received mediocre feedback. The sooner I got the order, i figured if there was a problem I would a larger window to get a RMA and/or dispute a charge, etc.

Nothing bad to say about accessmicro. The items ordered were listed as shipping in 1-2 days or 3-4 days; I ordered tuesday morning at 7am EST; all items were shipped that evening. Received plenty of emails (4) informing me of the progress; all items arrived thursday afternoon by 2pm. Everything arrived in flawless condition; I would recommend accessmicro whole-hearted based on my experience. I have to remember to submit a survey at resellerratings.com ....

There were raid and usb 2.0 options for this board; didn't want raid and I have no USB 2.0 devices so why go there now? The board comes with 6 usb ports as it is (usb 1.1); when i need the 2.0 I'll just go get me a pci card....

The system is setup; the only thing I may do is update the bios. Couple of pieces of info you may benefit from:

1) As tempting as it may be; use the "high performance bios default option" with caution. I chose it and couldn't boot; had to reset the cmos. The MSI manual is actually quite informative (as far as mobo manuals go) with letting you know what all the options are. socketa.com has for many mobo the optimized settings; worth a look.

2) this may be rectified with a bios update; my extremely basic MICROSOFT ps2 scroll wheel mouse would not work with the board. It's not optical or cordless; literally the cheapo M$ model. The pc actually locked up; when I unplugged the M$ mouse, everything freed up. I tested other mice (including a USB) and they were fine. Even the MS mouse is working perfectly on by secondary system. For now I am using a CHEAPER memorex 3 button ps/2 (it was free after rebate) and it works fine. I guess every install has its nuances...

3) The board comes with a "D Bracket". All I had to do was figure out what the hell a d bracket is... For those who don't know, its a four led/2 color indicator. Depending on the color and pattern (16 different patterns), you can diagonse some problems easily and/or without video. Now that I'm up and running, it's another 4 led's to go with the other 2 dozen led's in my computer room...

Other than that, install was fine. No problems, windows 98se and win 2k both like the board. I just have to really sink into the BIOS and start tweaking.

Upgrades are like an addiction; debating my next improvement now. I'll wait to see if you respond to this post or look to move to another forum.

Good luck with your setup -keep me posted...

[BigBlue66]

Hey Psabi,

Thanks for posting back. Glad to hear of your positive experiences, both with the vendor and the board. I have bought thousands of $ of parts from them with no problems whatsoever.

I am using the little sister to the Pro2 now, so I know all about the D-bracket, six USB ports (Ain't that cool?), etc.

Again, I'm in no hurry to upgrade as the Turbo2 board is working flawlessly. I just finished building a system for one of my co-workers, so I'm running out of things to tinker with. Could be that I'll upgrade in the next month or so.

I think that if you pursue the high performance settings in depth, you may be able to use them anyway. Could be your memory timings or something that won't allow you to boot up. Let me know how that goes.

Good luck with the board and I will be watching and waiting to see if you have future problems. From reading the posts over at the MSI forum at amdmb.com, most people are extremely pleased with the board.

Cheers,

BB 66

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This space reserved for highly intelligent observations and witty remarks.

"Once I thought I made a mistake, but turns out it was the other guy."
Myself

[Paleo Pete]

I just finished building a system for one of my co-workers, so I'm running out of things to tinker with. Could be that I'll upgrade in the next month or so.

BB you're as bad as me...I'm about to rebuild my mother's machine to try and get a digital camera to work with it, (serial only and knocks out the PS/2 mouse no matter what I try) and just brought my old P-233MMX here to her place to use when I visit, and I'm already trying to figure out what to build/rebuild/tinker with when I go home in a few days...

Who knows, in a few days I might be digging into anything...an old XT...386 running win3.11 that would be real happy with a bigger hard drive and better video card...oooohhhh, there's the 486 DX4 board...

Let's face it...we're ADDICTS...this is worse than any drug...I wonder if they have a name for it yet that I could never pronounce...

psabi Glad things went well, hope it works well and trouble free. Make sure and remember when you start tweaking BIOS to make only one change at a time, and it might not be a bad idea to write each one down so if you have trouble you know what was changed last...

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Support the right to keep and arm bears.
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.dreamwater.com/paleopete/computer.htm) has been moved, please update your bookmarks.

[BigBlue66]

Originally posted by Paleo Pete:

Let's face it...we're ADDICTS...

Ain't it the truth? http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


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This space reserved for highly intelligent observations and witty remarks.

"Once I thought I made a mistake, but turns out it was the other guy."
Myself

[kayofcircles]

We haven't been so lucky with the MSI 6330 ver 3.0. However, still in troubleshooting mode, and subject for another thread. But I did want to add to this post since people thinking of building their own will probably read it. Be sure to write down the model number off the chip itself before installing. We now have three new chips, and not one of them had a model number listed on box, packaging, or in one case, the manual. And one NEEDS a model number to find out FSB speed...and check the mobo for correct FSB as well.

[psabi]

kay

Sorry to hear about your circumstance. I meant to add "writing down cpu info" in my last post. Apparently AMD lists the max stable temperature on the CPU (or is it the case temperature?). Regardless, I now have a board that has the capability to monitor cpu and case temperature. If I only knew the recommended range for the cpu...

According to the nifty utilities that came with the mobo, my processor is around 40-41 degrees celsius with a case temp in the low 30's. Now if I could just find a site that lists detailed temp specs....

[BigBlue66]

Kay: Sounds like you have the original Turbo board. My Turbo is version 5.X, or Turbo2. As you can see, I have nothing but good things to say about it.

Psabi: Yes, the particular number on the AMD chip references acceptable case temperatures. As for the chip, try to keep it under 50C and definitely under 60C. Looks like you're doing good so far with temps in the 40's.

------------------
This space reserved for highly intelligent observations and witty remarks.

"Once I thought I made a mistake, but turns out it was the other guy."
Myself

[BigBlue66]

How's it going, Psabi?

Been thinking about the performance settings you were having problems with.

You said you were going to run a 750Mhz Duron to start, right? Well, the performance settings probably bump the FSB up to 133Mhz (266Mhz), and that Duron's FSB is probably only 200Mhz. You will have to wait until your Athlon purchase to make full use of the 266Mhz FSB capabilities of the board.

Edit: Although, maybe the FSB settings are like the Turbo2's, in that, there is a jumper on the motherboard to toggle between the choices. At any rate, sounds like the old Duron wouldn't quite keep up. Hope you're having a favorable experience anyway.

Cheers.

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"After the wedding, we all went up to the conception room and had a big time up there"
-------- Tommy Smothers

[This message has been edited by BigBlue66 (edited 03-01-2002).]

[psabi]

big blue my MSI buddy!

Things are going well. I have gone thru the BIOS settings and tested the system for stability. The only ones I haven't dealt with are the AGP ones since I am running a 16MB PCI video (MORE ON THIS LATER...) The bus speed was most likely the issue; the only other setting I didn't optimize was the CAS; I am using crucial DDR 2100 with a latency of 2.5. Although the bios detected the CAS correctly at 2.5, I haven't knocked it down to the 2 setting yet.(would it even be worth it?) If there is memory that can handle the lower setting, it should be crucial.

The board has worked perfectly. I know I was bouncing back and forth between the 2 systems I was bulding at the same time: here's the final breakdown:

Primary:
750mhz T-bird on the MSI board
256MB of Crucial DDR 2100
36GB maxtor 5400 ata/66 drive
16 MB Voodoo 3 3000 PCI video
DSI/Creative winmodem
Netgear 10/100
Philips acoustic edge 706
Pine 52x cd rom
dual-booting 98se and 2000 (98se for "legacy games")

-used primarily for gaming, MS Office, surfing, and listening to music

Secondary:

750 Duron on a FIC AZ11 board
384MB of pc133
13 GB 7200 IBM ata/66 drive with a 6GB quantum ata/33 on the secondary controller
4 MB AGP S3 graphics
actiontec winmodem
3com 10/100
on board sound - yeah I know but the vanilla A3D card I had wasn't getting along with the rest of the system
TDK veloCD 16x burner
dual booting 98se and 2000 - mainly for the legacy fax software as well as the scanner

-NOT used for gaming; music downloads, burning CD's, surfing, pseudo print server. This box is the workhorse with 2 printers, zip drive, scanner, burner, and whatever the hell else I can find plugged into it. Burn CD's/ downloading while gaming on the main system.

MY BIG QUESTION FOR BIG BLUE:

What would you recommend for the next upgrade for the primary system (think gaming)? The choices:

1) new video card - looking at a GForce 3 Ti200; should I consider a stripped down GForce 4 instead? $135 for a G3 ti200 vs. $105 for a G4 MX440

2) additional DDR memory; maybe another 256 although 128 would suit just fine. Me thinks the price will come down when they come out with the next "offical" ddr speed standard...

3) new processor- XP 1700 had my eye for around a $120; at the 1800 level the prices really jump and as it is the 1700 will be more than enough.

Honarable mention: a 7200 ata/100 drive - not really for the space but for the increased transfer rate

My wager says you'll suggest a new vid card as that would be the weakest part of my system. (No Bull - the Voodoo3 PCI 16MB was able to run Max Payne and Return to Wolfenstein with options set at a mix of medium/high.)

Upgrading really is an addiction - that coupled with the fact that I just picked up another contract with work that makes the upgrades easier to pay for...

I'm going start doing so vid card homework - please drop back and share!

[BigBlue66]

Hey Psabi, glad to hear things are going well for you. Woohoo!

My order of preference for machine no. 1 with gaming in mind:

1) GF3 Ti 200. Don't even consider the new GF4 MX versions. They are barely better than a GF2 Ti/PRO. And, they don't have support for DX8. The GF3 Ti 200 is the best bet. That's ironic, I just ordered one for myself two days ago, the Abit Siluro GeForce3 Ti 200. Found it at pricewatch for $129 plus $12.50 shipping anywhere in the U.S. The company, SR something or other, had it listed for $179 on their site, but said to mention the pricewatch price and that's what they would charge me. I am upgrading from a PNY Verto GF2 Ti so can't wait to see the new 3DMarks

2) Athlon 1700+. Nuff said.

3) ATA100 7200rpm harddrive.

4) Additional 128 or maybe 256 of DDR.

I'm sure there will be those who disagree with my order of preference. The way I see it, and I agree with you, the main bottleneck is the vid card. You need a new one right away. Overclock it but make sure to have adequate cooling for it. It should come with an active HSF on the GPU and some RAM sinks, but make sure to get a 92mm or 120mm fan and place it directly over the adapter cards so as to fling a lot of air around.

The rest of my preferences, I think, hold up to common sense. I mean, the next thing you will need is the processor to take advantage of the FSB capabilities of the MSI and then a new harddrive to bump up those transfer rates. The 256mb of DDR you have now will suffice as the last thing to upgrade because you can always tweak the operating systems for using physical RAM first and fixing the size of the swap file.

Aren't computers grand??? http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Cheers

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"After the wedding, we all went up to the conception room and had a big time up there"
-------- Tommy Smothers

[psabi]

Vid card research turned up that the GForce 4 MX isn't that good (at least for what I am looking for). Not to copy you too much http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif but I'll start browsing the GF TI 200 for specifically what I don't want (i.e. don't care about TV out). After reading through countless reviews and going thru toms hardware, I've come to realize the boards don't differ in performance with equivalent chipsets and memory. Sometimes the manufacturers tweak the drivers but performance difference is minimal between identical chipsets. Sorry, you probably know this all already... I would have said "MY BAD" but I know how you feel about that http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

Within the next 3 weeks I'll get the xp 1700 and the video card. I was afraid you'd mention the ATA100 drive; don't want to set everything up again... My current 750 t-bird will be swapped into my secondary system which isn't too bad as a "secondary"...

Also on the upgrade/acquistion agenda is a KVM - I didn't mention the other systems I use so I wouldn't put you to sleep. Seen some real cheap KVM's and then the higher priced belkins - probably going to start a new thread on KVM and see what the forum regulars have to share.

[BigBlue66]

Originally posted by psabi:
Vid card research turned up that the GForce 4 MX isn't that good


Um, yeah, so what's your point? Isn't that what I just said? http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Re-read prior post please. I wouldn't use a GF4 MX if someone gave me one. I'd sell it and get a real video card. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

Can't wait to get my Ti 200. Don't get me wrong, my GeForce2 Ti is really a nice board, but you said it yourself, upgrading is addictive. And Pete said in another thread that we're all addicts, always looking for something to swap out, upgrade, tweak, swap in, etc. Ain't it the truth?

Thanks for the chuckle on the "my bad" issue.

As for the harddrive issue, if you only had an ATA/33 right now, I would have maybe changed around my preference list around, but I see you're running an ATA/66 which isn't bad at all, considering that you're only looking at a modest overall increase in transfer rates going from that to an ATA/100.

And what's the big deal about getting a new harddrive? You know there are a countless number of ways to copy the contents of one drive to another so you don't really have to start over, right?

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This space reserved for highly intelligent observations and witty remarks.

"After the wedding, we all went up to the conception room and had a big time up there"
-------- Tommy Smothers

[This message has been edited by BigBlue66 (edited 03-03-2002).]

[mjc]

I did notice a dramatic improvement going from a 5400rpm ATA/66 to a 7200rpm ATA/100 (but only running at 66...because that is all the highe my board goes). My boot time in 98 was right at 1 minute before the switch and after it dropped to 45 seconds (about right because the rpm increase is 1800; 1/3 of 5400), but it was not just evident there, overall disk access was improved. And as far as having to set it all up again, shouldn't be a problem...most drives come with software to clone your current setup to the new drive.

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

[BigBlue66]

Well sure, I agree with all that MJC has said, and yes, there will be an improvement. However, in my opinion, the situation in this case calls for processor and vid card replacement before the harddrive. Guess what I really should say is that once you go to the faster spindle rate and faster transfer times with the ATA100 harddrive, you will have the backbone system to support it and benefit from it.

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This space reserved for highly intelligent observations and witty remarks.

"After the wedding, we all went up to the conception room and had a big time up there"
-------- Tommy Smothers