635W is not enough?!

[Daniel]

Hello everybody.

Recently I bought a new HDD (Wester Digital 320GB, EIDE, http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=117) to replace the old Wester Digital 80GB, EIDE, which looked as though it was going to die soon. Additionally, I already had another Western Digital 320GB HD installed (it is identical to a new HD). Now, I removed the old 80GB HD, installed the new one instead and powered up. Immediately after powering up the system shut down, with power LET blinking the way it does when electricity does down for a second and immediately returnes. I removed the new HD, put back the old one, powered up and again the same problem. I left PC for some time, and then tried again. Now, connecting two 320 HDs brings system down, connecting one one of them (either new or the old one) is fine. At the end connecting both one of 320gb and 80gb worked fine, too.

I thought that maybe there is a problem with connectors, but no, connecting only one of 320gbs with either connector works.

It seems that power supply doesn't have enough power to hold both 320GB HDs. But this is very strange - here is specs for power supply and the rest of the system:

model: Gyro ATX-635
max output power: 635W

+12V 30A max
+5V 45A max
+3.3V 30A max
-5V 0.5A max
-12V 1.0A max
+5V/SB 2.0A max


CPU: Athlon 1333
motherboard: Asus A7M266
RAM: 768MB DDR (256MB & 512MB sticks)
cdrom: Benq DVD DW1620
graphic card: Nvidia Geforce MX 2
sound card: souldblaster live! value

also, there is a couple of case fans (each takes 0.13A from +12V), couple of mice, diskette drive (which for some reason stopped working after all my tinkering with the system), one USB adapter and that's all.

All the setup doesn't sound like something with can use up all the 635W of power!

Now, I don't switch off PC for months at a stretch (that is, I do reboot, but don't power off), but when I did a couple of month ago the system crashed while powering up, which I attributed to bad HD (which recently sometimes makes strange clicks when I reboot), but possibly the problem started already then.

What is the problem here? Is it possible that all that power is not enough (doesn't sound likely), or maybe there is a problem with power supply (if so, why only on powering up - though it does takes more power to start up than usually, but there are 635W there!) or maybe with something entirely else?

If there is indeed a problem with power supply unit but not with the amount of power, what do you say about the following power supply:

RockeTeer V 500W EZ SP-500W (http://www.spirepower.com/SP-500W.htm)?

[david eaton]

Have a look at Saphalline's sticky here (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=47399)

There could be a problem with that supply, as the output seems ok in terms of wattage, but the distribution is wrong. Newer hardware needs more output at 12 volts, but a lot less at 3.3 volts. The antec 430 watt supply has three 12 volt rails, all at 16 amp.

[Daniel]

I don't have that brand available...

What about something like Enermax Noisetaker EG425P-VE 420W (http://www.enermaxusa.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_42&products_id=75)

[kiosk]

If the power supply is more than a year old, I'd suspect capacitors inside it aren't quite up to the task anymore. While the power supply does provide 635 watts of power, the capacitors are unable to smooth out the noise and voltage spikes at these high power loads.

Think of it as a car with a powerful engine, but equipped with a (cheap) broken suspension system - despite the powerful engine, you wouldn't be able to drive the car very fast since the whole vehicle would've bounced off the road as soon as you'd hit the smallest bump.

The sad reality is that these days, manufacturers try to save a few pennies by using the cheapest capacitors available in their power supplies and mainboars. These capacitors of course fail about three days after the warranty period expires, go figure. ;) :(

[rond36]

I don't have that brand available...

What brand? Where are you shopping?

There are 4 brands in Saphalline's sticky.

Budget

Thermaltake TR2 420W

Antec TruePowerII TPII-430 430W

Antec SmartPower 2.0 SP-500 500W

Antec TruePowerII TPII-550 550W

Mid-Range

Seasonic S12-500 500W

Seasonic S12-600 600W

High-End

PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 510 SLI-PFC 510W

PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 850 SSI 850W

PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 1KW 1000W

PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 1KW-Quad SLI 1000W

If you are thinking about getting an Enermax Noisetaker series PSU get a 600W Enermax Noisetaker I EG701AX-VE SFMA (http://www.enermaxusa.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_42&products_id=66) or a 600W Enermax Noisetaker II EG701AX-VE SFMA (http://www.enermaxusa.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_46&products_id=89)

I have both of them.

600W Enermax Noisetaker II EG701AX-VE SFMA (http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=270322) is on sale for $109.00 + free shipping at ZipZoomFly.com

[saphalline]

Try resetting the CMOS and using different power cables for each of the hard drives. That old configuration shouldn't use more than 350W peak. 600W or more is overkill.

[Daniel]

What brand? Where are you shopping?


I am shopping in Israel, and there are only a few choices. Additionally, I prefer buying in local store (where the choice is still less, because I don't live at the center), because a return/warranty policy is quite bad when item is bought online.

The only available model from sticky is Thermaltake TR2 Power W0062 420W, but it has only one bottom fan - I would prefer better cooling, especially since it is very hot where I live. Thermaltake 600W *is* available to be bought online (which, as I said, is better not done), but it is a way over my budget. The local shop which has most options and from which I am probably going to buy is located here: http://ksp.co.il/main.php.

P.S.: why do you think Enermax Noisetaker EG425P-VE 420W is not good enough - not enough power?

Try resetting the CMOS and using different power cables for each of the hard drives.

Tried to do that, though I am not sure that I really succeeded at that - before resetting CMOG, I entered some strange floppy cofiguration - I reasoned that if reset is successfull, that configuration would be forgotten. Then, I unplugged power cable, removed CMOG barrary for 7 minutes, powered on with 2 HDDs on different cables (which brought the system down as before), looked at the BIOS settings - but strange floppy configuration wasn't forgotten! Don't know, maybe I have powerless (that is, needing no electricity to work) CMOG - pity that they didn't make the whole PC like that :).

[schusterjo]

You would not need more then a 420W, 600W is a little overkill. You may have a intermittent PS issue and the only way really to factor that out would be to try another PS.
does the bios keep correct time? if it does not then you have a bad bios battery and it needs replaced.
Power Supply (PSU) Problems

Description

It is important to have a functioning, proper size of PSU for your computer. Having an underpowered or failing PSU is often the cause for random reboots. To get an estimate of how powerful a PSU, use this PSU calculator (http://www.journeysystems.com/power_supply_calculator.php) and add about 50W to the minimum power the calculator gives you.

Diagnostic

The easiest and best way to diagnose a faulty PSU is to swap it with another one that you know is in good working order. Because everyone doesn't always have an extra PSU around, this might not be practical. Other than swapping, the diagnosis of a faulty PSU might be because no other problems seem to be causing the random reboots.

Flowchart for ATX Power Supply Repair (http://www.fonerbooks.com/power.htm)
Causes

PSUs just die after a while. Just like most electrical components, they age and die. Often, a PSU will make a loud noise, or let out some smoke. Sometimes, though, the PSU will die silently. Sometimes the PSU will die due to overheating because its fan died.


RAM

Description

Faulty RAM and RAM slots can cause random errors/reboots.

Diagnostic

The best way to determine if RAM is your problem is to run your computer with one stick at a time, and see if the problem occurs for either stick. This obviously doesn't apply if you only have one stick to begin with Also, try the RAM in different slots. The actual slots might be causing RAM-failing like problems. The next step is to run memtest86 (http://www.memtest.org/)to determine if you have faulty RAM.

Cause

Sometimes RAM is just faulty. Either it makes it past quality control at the manufacturer or it gets damaged during shipping. Because most Memory manufacturers have lifetime warranties on their products, either return the RAM to the retailer that you purchased it from or return the defective product to the manufacturer


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Visit the manufactures website and download the latest drivers for your hardware.


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