Why do games run rubbish on my 'good'(?) PC

[markonline4072]

Hey,
Bit of a vague question i know, but i'll try and explain.

I have an eMachines 8230, 3Ghz Pentium 4 with hyperthreading, running windows XP. I have an Radeon X1300 256MB graphics card,
and I have upgraded the RAM by adding 2x 512 modules to the original 512, so 1.5Gb DDR RAM now, and a 200GB hard drive.

I know a little bit about computers and that seems like an okay system(?), especially compared to required specs for games; but trying to play demos of Rainbow 6: Lockdown, or Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter, or similar i can only run them playably at low res 800x600, nowhere near my 1440x900capable monitor, and all the detail has to be set really low, shadows reflections and stuff, and it never even gets started with anti-ailiasing (sp?!) and that good stuff.

Basically my main gripe is with the extra RAM i installed which doesnt seem to have made much of a difference at all, it is definitely recognised in the bios boot, and appears correctly in task manager, but it just doesnt seem to speed anything up! (i know its runnign in single channel because the channels arent balaced- but it should still be an improvement right?)

I expected to see good improvements in games, and in running things like Geforece visualizations for Media Player, but nothing much, and games and programs still take about the same time to load. Now, am i getting confused with what my graphics card should be doing compared to the job of the RAM? and is my graphics card actually much cop?

Any help appreciated, Cheers!

Mark

[jlreich]

Welcome to the http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/pcgubb.gif forums. :)

(i know its runnign in single channel because the channels arent balaced- but it should still be an improvement right?)
Nope, even though you have more physical ram, you are actually decreasing performance by running it in single channel mode. By doing that you cut the performance of the ram in half. Yeah you may be going to the swap file less often, but the ram is running at half the speed it would be in dual channel mode. So overall you have lost performance even though you set out to improve it. :(

Take the new stick out until you can get another one to match it and run in dual channel mode.

Now, am i getting confused with what my graphics card should be doing compared to the job of the RAM? and is my graphics card actually much cop?
Your video card is the most important when it comes to gaming. More ram is helpful, and faster ram is even better, but video cards are where the gaming is at. You could have a Core 2 quad core with 2GB ram, but if you have a crappy video card games will still suck. I hate to be the one to tell you this but an X1300 is a low end budget video card. I think the only lower card in the X1xxx series would be a X1300SE, which would be an even more watered down version of the X1300

[markonline4072]

okay cheers-
that all makes sense, especially about the graphics card- i knew it wasnt the best when i got it (cheaply) but thought it just may be up to the job.

one thing though, since i only had one DDR RAM module in before, wouldnt that have only been running in singe channel mode anyway?
so adding two more should still represent a 200% gain, although admittedly not a 300% gain if i just took one out! (or 700% gain if i added one more!)

cheers,

[jlreich]

Yeah if you only had one stick before it was running in single channel mode. I must have read it wrong the first time, I thought you had two to start with. :o

So you didn't lose any performance but gained a little.

so adding two more should still represent a 200% gain, although admittedly not a 300% gain if i just took one out! (or 700% gain if i added one more!)
It doesn't work that way. When you run a program, it gets retrieved from the hard drive where it is stored and loaded into ram. Everything runs from ram, it has to be loaded into ram, that's just the way things work.

When you load up enough programs that you run out of physical ram, the system starts using a part of the hard drive as virtual ram (aka swap drive, page file). Of course the hard drive is much slower than real ram. So by adding more physical ram you have to go to the hard drive less often, being able to run all the programs you want to run directly from the much much faster ram.

This will give you a performance increase depending on what you are running. But nowhere near a 200% gain. Admittedly, if you are starved for ram, say you are running XP on 128MB ram, then bump it up to 512MB, it's going to feel like a new machine.

Now this will often help with games as modern games tend to use upwards of 1GB ram, many go well over that if it is available. 1GB dual channel ram is standard for gamers, 2GB for hardcore gamers and power users.

But it all comes down to the video card when it comes to gaming. The video card is responsible for pumping out the what you see on the screen. It does all the calculations of how that grenade effects the surrounding when it blows up, and how a wall crumbles when you hit it with a rocket, or how the bad guy falls and how the blood splatters when you put a bullet in his head from 1000 yards. :p Like I said before, you can have a $1500 quad core CPU, 2GB ram, but if you have a crappy video card...

Oh BTW, I can't seem to find any info on your system. I wanted to make sure it does indeed have dual channel ram capabilities. If it doesn't have dual channel ram, then keep all three sticks in there. Is there a letter in front of the model number or anything?

[markonline4072]

okay, that makes a lot of sense- thanks for explaining that :)

i have tried looking for my computer online before with little luck, but the motherboard is an Intel D915GAG if that helps, i'm sure the manual is available online.

Well it looks like i'm in the market for a new graphics card then, i'll read the threads on graphics cards, but any quick suggestions?
(what else is important aside from the RAM?)

Thanks!

[jlreich]

OK, unless eMachines crippled the board, which sometimes happens, it does support dual channel ram. Take out one of the sticks and leave in the two new sticks. When you boot up you should see something on the POST screen indicating dual channel mode, assuming you get to see the POST screen and not just the eMachines splash screen.

What's you budget for a new video card?

what else is important aside from the RAM?
More ram never hurts, as long as you are not breaking dual channel mode. :)

Your CPU is good enough, upgrading it wouldn't hurt, but I wouldn't worry about it. Although some games are more CPU intensive than others, the video card is far more important.. And there are games coming out that will require a dual core CPU, so I hear. But still the video card is where it's at.

I just upgraded from a s939 AMD 3000+ to an X2 4400+. Yeah it made a noticeable difference in games, but that was a huge upgrade. I went from a single core overclocked from 1800MHz to 2000MHz, to two cores overclocked from 2200MHz to 2452MHz. That's a major difference. Even still it didn't make that much of a difference in games. If I really wanted more gaming power I would have been better off spending the cash on a video card. But I didn't get the new CPU for gaming, I got it for encoding video and a lot of multitasking. Right now I am still happy with my factory OC'ed 6800GS. Although tax time is coming around soon...

[markonline4072]

I was thinking aobut £150-200.
what is your opinion of purchasing second hand graphis cards, from ebay and the likes? is there much to go wrong, as in is it any more of a lottery than with any other electrical goods?

(oh and when you say upgrade the processor -which isnt something i currently thinking about- that would most likely require a new motherboard along with it would it?)

cheers,

[jlreich]

I tend to stay away from used electronics, particularly at places like ebay. I have in the past bought refurbished components from places that have a good return policy, but even it is a gamble.

Another good point is that most video card manufacturers have a lifetime warranty, if you buy a used card you most likely wont get that warranty. I know that XFX has a transferable warranty, but it is limited to parts only when it is transfered to the next owner.

I know you can't buy from Newegg but here is a good card well within your price range for reference. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814130074

I wouldn't spend much over $200 US on a DX9 video card right now. DX10 cards are out, but are still very expensive and there are no midrange cards on the market yet. So unless you plan on spending $450-$700 US on a new DX10 card, buy similar to the link and wait for the prices to drop in the next six months to a year. Which that will leave you some cash for below...

You will most likely need a new power supply to go with a new video card. The PSU's that OEM's like eMachine put in their system are usually just enough to cover the base system and maybe an extra hard drive and maybe a new stick of ram.

(oh and when you say upgrade the processor -which isnt something i currently thinking about- that would most likely require a new motherboard along with it would it?)

Your board can take up to a P4 670 (http://www.intel.com/design/motherbd/ag/ag_proc.htm). It would make a difference, but it wouldn't be worth unless you can get it at a really low price.

If you want more than that you will need a new mobo. Which means new ram. And you are talking about a new video card which will require a new power supply. Well that's a what we call a core upgrade. :)

You might as well go for a Core 2 Duo system if you are going to do that. Keep in mind a new mobo will require a fresh install of windows, and since the copy that came installed on your eMachines is most likely OEM and tied to that system, you will probably need to buy a new copy of windows.

Hmm, how easy it is to go from a video card upgrade to a whole new system. :p

[rond36]

Here is a link (http://www.intel.com/products/motherboard/D915GAG/index.htm) to your motherboard

Do you know which 3GHz P4 you have? 530, 530J, 531, or 630

If it has a P4 630 installed there is a better chance you can install a P4 670 as jlreich said
A retail Intel D915GAG motherboard can handle up to a 3.8GHz P4 570J, 571 with 1MB L2 cache or 670 with 2MB L2 cache. eMachines may have clipped the BIOS on your board.

[jlreich]

Also if you end up upgrading the processor you will most likely need to update your BIOS before you install it. Support for the 670 requires BIOS version 0391 or later.

[markonline4072]

not too sure about which processor, i'll have a look.

had a look at the graphics card that was linked to,
do you seriously reckon i'll need a new power unit to deal with that sort of card? (and what are the consequences of running my system under-powered?)

i assume i should be able to calculate this stuff by reference to power ratings then?

cheers for your help so far,

[jlreich]

do you seriously reckon i'll need a new power unit to deal with that sort of card?
Oh yes. Like I said PSU's that OEM's use are usually low end. Adding a card like that will will require a new PSU, unless of course you have upgraded it since you bought it. If you haven't you will need a new PSU. A 7950GT is a power hungry card.

what are the consequences of running my system under-powered?
Blue screens, random restarts, general degradation of the entire system, even to the point of damaging it.

Although awareness has gotten better of late, the PSU is one of the most overlooked component in the system. Unfortunately for those that overlook, it is one of the most important components. Then they try to figure out why their system restarts every time they try to play a game or do other resource intensive tasks.

The PSU is the lifeblood of a computer. Without plenty of good clean power a computer struggles to do its job, and in the worst case the PSU will fail from over stressing it and damage other components.

[markonline4072]

jlreich, thanks for your suggestion of a video card;

i have been looking at the card you suggested on dabs.com,
there seem to be several variations made by companies which sell overclocked cards. dabs offer the card at £171, while Gainward and EVGA offer it for up to £220, are the potential differences worth this pricetag?

and how does the 7950GT card rate among current competition?

thanks!

[jlreich]

Generally yes the factory overclocked cards are worth it. It means that the card is already tested by the factory to run at those speeds. In my opinion this is far better than trying to find the max overclock yourself. If you are good at overclocking it could be better to go with a stock card and do it yourself. But your mileage will vary on how much overclock you can get out of any one card.

You will have to decide how much factory overclock you are willing to dish out for. ;)

Other things that can effect the price are games bundled with the card. This can be good if it's bundled with a game or games that you want and don't have. But useless if you already have them or don't want them.

Keep in mind I really wouldn't pay much more than $200 on a DX9 video card right now with the DX10 card out now. But, if you think this is going to be the last chance you will have to upgrade your video card for the next a year or two, then I say get whatever you can fit in your budget and screw DX10.

Actually a 7900GT is very comparable to a 7950GT, but usually considerably less in price. Another good card in that the $200 range is an ATI X1900XT. Basically they will trade punches with different games and different settings.

Find something in your price in either 7900GT-7950GTX or X1900XT-X1950XTX and you will be good to go.

If you want to get right down to it, have look at Tom's Hardware GPU comparison chart (http://www23.tomshardware.com/graphics.html?modelx=33&model1=519&model2=607&chart=211). Choose the two cards to compare and choose different games and different settings.