needing a new processor

[dafink]

I was cleaning out the insides of my pc being that I was going to hook up the ram and install some games, play music, etc. Just really put the increased ram to the test.

I saw that the heat sink had some big pieces of dirt collected on it so I figured i'd pull the heatsink to clean it out and stuff.

Turns out that the processor was thermal pasted to the bottom of the heat sink and when I pulled that out some of the processor pins get bent. Yea I know...not so smart now that I think about it.

I had assumed that the processor was secured to the board with that lever so that if I ever wanted a newer heatsink that maybe disperses heat a little better I could just replace it. Guess I found out the hard way.

Fortunatly, my pc being 2yrs old (this past september), the processors aren't that expensive. Unfortunatly I can't find any of the ones i'm looking for.

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=1783
That's the processor link. Mine was a Athlon 64 3400+ Newcastle I believe.

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=1783
That's all the compatible processors.

I was thinking about getting the 3700+ which is the highest my board can take but I was wondering if the extra 512k would even make a difference.

I havn't been able to find the one I had or the 3700+ online so hopefully someone here can help me.:confused:

Found other models but they're lower speed so I don't want that.

I've been thinking about a new pc even before this happened but wasn't going to get one till march-may...but I was planning on making a post asking more specific questions about that this week.

When I do eventually get a new pc however, this one's still in great shape so i'd like to still use it regularly or put it to good use somehow.

[dafink]

I'd appreciate anyone's help with this.

I've done google searches for 3400+ and 3700+ but alot of what it's found is for socket 939. I've also gotten prices that range from $80 to $300 which makes absolutly no sense.

Didn't think it'd be that hard to find since it's still a good board and the 2nd to last processor made for it.

I just want to find atleast the processor I had so that I could continue using my pc till I get a new one.

[alex666]

Here's a link to newegg's page that lists their available 754 processors, which per the specs is what this mobo needs.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?N=2010340343+50001028+1051707438&Submit=ENE&SubCategory=343

Personally, I'd get the venice 3200, as that would be the most powerful processor at the least expense, and with just a bit of overclocking you could get it up to 3700 speeds if it's not already there. Note that it's an oem, so no hsf, but just add an after-market hsf or go with the hsf you have and use some good thermal grease.

Good luck.

marty

[jlreich]

I agree with the 3200+. I wouldn't recommend spending much more than that on this system. Particularly since you are planning on getting a new system in the near future.

[dafink]

Thanks guys...I did end up getting that one.

Should I get a new heatsink or how would I go about removing the processor to place the current one there?

Radioshack has some thermal paste by me. Made by Startech & it's $12.99. Is that a good brand with a good price?

[alex666]

You can go to newegg, and on their first page, you'll see a list of categories that includes "cooling fans and heatsinks". Click on that, and you'll get options for cpu coolers, thermal paste, and such. I personally like newegg for many reasons, but at the very least, they have by far one of the best selections of products, plus user reviews, so you can go there and check out the variety of products within any given category. Once I identify a particular product I want, I then look around to see if there are better prices (usually not, but sometimes there are). I also look regularly at zipzoomfly.

Arctic Silver 5 (AS5) is a very popular and good thermal paste, but there are others, including one from Zalman that I just ordered as I have a couple of heatsinks to install. AS has a very good website as well, with specific instructions on how much paste to use, how to apply it, and so forth. As for hsfs (heatsinks and fans), you'll want a good one if you choose to overclock. Again, newegg has a large variety with a lot of good info and links to the manufacturers who often provide installation information, on-line instructions, even videos, demonstrating how to install their product.

As for the rest of your question, I'm not sure what you mean by "how would I go about removing the processor to place the current one there". Could you explain a bit more? I thought you already had removed your processor, as you commented on its bent pins.

Good luck and post back with your progress.

marty

[dafink]

I did remove the processor from the board, but it's still glued to the bottom of the heatsink.

Compusa has that Artic silver you're talking about so i'll just get that most likely.

[mjc]

Was the processor you bought OEM or Retail?

If it was a Retail package it will include a new heatsink.

[alex666]

Completely stuck? Hmm, usually it's recommended to run the cpu for a while to warm it up before removing the hsf. You'll need to straighten the pins anyway, so you might want to reinsert the processor and hsf and once it's run a while, then the hsf should come off more easily. BTW, AS5 is not a glue, just a thermal paste.

Are you going to use the same hsf or get a new one?

marty

[dafink]

It's pretty well on the bottom of that heatsink...guess they put a good amount of paste (glue?) on it to secure it.

There's no way to straighten the pins, trust me. There's like 10 of them bent atleast...when I pulled the hs I didn't excpect that. If I had known it was secured I would've left well enough alone.

The processor or the hsf isn't on the board...think that's where we're getting confused. The hsf is screwed onto the top of the hs which has the processor secured to the bottom of it. All three were secured to the board by a lever so all three came out fine, only together.

I was planning on using the same hsf. The processor is as good as a paperweight so I don't mind prying it off or whatever I gotta do to get it off.

So AS5 is just paste? Cause whatever they used, it's set pretty good on the hs so that's what I figured the paste is.

[alex666]

I lost track here, forgot that you were getting the new pcu (had a busy day yesterday). So yeah, you don't need to sweat your old cpu. Though I have heard others straighten pins like that, having had similar experiences with hsfs.

But yes, as5 is a thick paste, not a glue per se though it can be very sticky. It's easy to make a bit of a mess and get it all over the place, and you have to be very careful so that you don't short out anything. It's amazingly messy despite the little tube it's in, unfortunately I have personal experience. :D
But you'll be fine. Again, their website is very good for how to apply.

I'm going to be trying some Zalman thermal paste for the first time. It's due to arrive today with a thermaltake northbridge hsf, and a zalman hsf for my cpu is to arrive tomorrow. I've been slowly setting up a biostar 6100/410 mobo for fun, and I'm needing to throw a lot of volts into my cpu (that's another story), so I need better cooling than stock hsfs. Anyway, the zalman paste is supposed to be quite different than as5, which along with as3 is all I've ever used. The zalman is supposed to be thinner, you paint it on, but yet very effective. I guess I'll soon find out.

Good luck.

marty

[dafink]

It's all good dude, appreciate the help from everyone regardless.

My friend's a network admin and he suggested to bring the processor over to his house so he could try to straighten out the pins but when I said it was like 10-12, he said don't even bother.

I don't know if they used paste or not to secure it to the bottom of the heatsink. Don't have much experience with that persay but it looks like glue. What did you do that you know how messy it can be? lol

What's a biostar 6100/410? Never heard of that mobo.

I'm just trying to find something to use to secure it to the bottom of the hs so that it'll stick. I don't really know the difference between thermal paste and glue for this kind of application?

How do I go about even getting the bad processor off the hs?

Once I do get it off, do I just slowly and carefully place the processor into the slot and secure it? I certainly don't want any more bent pins.

After that i'll glue the hs to the top and hopefully be done.

[jlreich]

I'm just trying to find something to use to secure it to the bottom of the hs so that it'll stick. I don't really know the difference between thermal paste and glue for this kind of application?
No no, you put the CPU in the socket first, then thermal compound, then the HSF goes on.

Thermal adhesive is for things like heatsinks for ram, or for old chipset heatsinks that don't have a way to be fastened on. Basically for things you don't necessarily want to ever get back off. :p

Here (http://www.pcguide.com/byop/byop_OpeningandExaminingtheCPUSocket.htm) is a good tutorial for installing a CPU. You can google and find many others if this doesn't make it clear.

Here (http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm) are the instructions for applying Arctic Silver. Even if you are using a different brand of thermal compound the instructions are pretty much universal.

[alex666]

jlreich provided the link to as5 I was referring to earlier, and his sequence (install in socket, then apply paste, then hsf) is absolutely correct. Keep in mind that as5 is very sticky. Your cpu and heat sink aren't going anywhere, but not just because of the as5, but because there should have been a clamp holding the hsf to the cpu. I hadn't even thought to mention that, as I assumed there was one in your system. If not, then you definitely will want to look at guides such as that provided by jlreich for how to attach your cpu and hsf. Most mobos (all mobos I've worked with) have some sort of small lip along the edge of the cpu socket (you can just see it in the first or second picture on the cpu install link by jlreich, on the bottom of the socket, 3 small protrusions, the one on the far right is partially hidden by a capacitor) to which the hsf clamp is attached. There is also a protrusion on the top of the socket as well, though you cannot see it in the picture. Is that how your current cpu and hsf was attached, or was the hsf simply glued to the cpu? In any case, can you see the protrusions on each side of the cpu socket in your system? If so, and if your old hsf was just glued on, then probably what you'll want to do is get a new hsf that has clamps that attach to those protrusions.

It's the clamp that holds your hsf to your cpu, not glue or thermal paste. The latter is simply intended to be a medium that transfers the heat from your cpu to your hsf and away from the cpu. The best thermal paste is very very thin, in essence filling the tiny holes in your cpu and hsf, and facilitating heat transfer.

If you follow that tutorial all the way through for install a cpu, it takes you step-by-step very nicely. The worst part of installing a cpu is making the final connection of the hsf clamp to the cpu socket. The first time I did that, I lost about 5 years of my life, as you're convinced that you'll crush your cpu. However, newer hsfs have made the process much easier. Personally, I've had terrific luck with 3 different Socket A systems using the Vantec Aeroflow. It attaches pretty easily, cools extremely well, and is not too loud.

marty

[dafink]

There is the usual grey clamp on the board, but the guys didn't use that when building my pc because it was the fan, heatsink and then processor all together.

To make it easier instead of trying to explain or describe, I included 5 pics ;)

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/finkebrian143/album/576460762384064426


1. Shows the 3 secured to the board with the lever from the heatsink. Metal piece there clips onto the black piece.
2. Just a broader pic of the entire setup.
3. Specifically the lever and metal piece. It actually secures it pretty well.
4. The black piece or thing as I called it lol. Obviously with how big this whole thing is, the grey lever wouldn't get used.
5. For your viewing pleasure, what I f'ed up. Not clear but the screwed up pins are directly above the middle green piece and 1-2 below the middle.

That's about it for that. Figure that's as good as a description as to what I have as anything.

How do I go about getting the processor off the bottom of the heatsink? I havn't tried anything yet even though it's basically worthless now. Guessing just something to pry it off.

Bought the processor, few fans because I needed to replace one anyways and artic silver 5 thermal compound oem.

[jlreich]

4. The little gray lever near the CPU socket has to be lifted up in order for the CPU to go in the socket. It's called a ZIF socket (Zero Insertion Force). Lift it up to a 90 degree angle, lower the CPU into place, noting the little arrow on the CPU that matches the arrow on the socket to show proper placement, then lower the lever back into the locked position. You may have to slightly hold the CPU in place with your finger to insure it doesn't move while locking the lever.

If you don't use the lever you will likely bend the pins on the CPU.

If the guys who put this machine together tried installing it by adhering the CPU to the HSF, then installing the whole thing at once, they are idiots and should not be allowed to touch any computer. ;)

I highly recommend googling "how to install CPU" or similar. You will see on any tutorial the CPU goes in first using the ZIF lever, then the HSF.

Oh and yes just pry off the old CPU. Use something plastic, something similar to a credit card, something that won't scratch the HSF.

[alex666]

Okay, so the clamp for the hsf is, or was, in place. So it looks like the bottom line is that whoever built this somehow glued the hsf to the cpu. Correct? If so, then I don't know what to tell you. Personally, I'm not sure I'd want to reuse that hsf again. I mean, you can get a much much better hsf for like $10 - $15. If you really want to try to remove the hsf and possibly salvage it and the cpu, one possible solution is one I did once when I had to remove a hsf from my old gf4400 Ti, which also was glued in place. Now I'd have to look up the exact procedure, but it came down to placing the video card in a sealed plastic bag, putting it in the freezer for like 30' - 60', and then pulling off the hsf. As crazy as that sounds, it worked like a charm. The hsf popped right off. I had no choice, as the gpu on the video card was going to burn up unless I could get a cooling solution, so I had nothing to lose. You might be in the same place.

On the other hand, buy your new cpu and get a new hsf and install them. And then later, figure out what the hell you want to do with that old cpu and hsf. Maybe bring it back to the folks that build your system and ask them to separate it. If they can't, then you oughta just shoot 'em. I concur with jl: they should not be building systems if they're going to glue hsfs to cpus!!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

I'm out of ideas otherwise. Good luck. My two hsfs and the zalman thermal paste arrived today. I'll be playing with those over the next couple of days, though I'm swamped at work so it may be the weekend. The zalman 7000 hsf I got for the cpu it HUGE. I sure hope it helps. Sure looks cool.

Take care.

marty

[jlreich]

Oops, sorry. I was posting a HSF recommendation for a s478. Then realized you have a s754. :o :p

[mjc]

I think I mentioned earlier...if you are buying the retail package for the CPU it should have a heatsink included.

And, yeah, the idiot who glued the CPU and HS together should have liberal amounts of the stuff spread all over his toilet seat...

[halovivek]

my best advice is to purchase new system instead of upgrading the old one.

[dafink]

I plan on getting a new one, but until that time I need my current one up and running.

Heatsink's coming today via ups so I should have it soon. I'll probably get a new heatsink from Radioshack I just found that looks like it'd get the job done.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?parentPage=search&summary=summary&cp=&accessories=accessories&productId=2216887&kw=heatsink&techSpecs=techSpecs&currentTab=summary&custRatings=custRatings&features=features&origkw=heatsink&support=support&tab=techSpecs

For practice since I now have a bad processor what I might do after prying it off is applying the AS5 and placing the heatsink as I would for the good one.

I read your link jlreich and much appreciated. I didn't move the grey lever on the board but the processor is secured to the bottom of the heatsink so I guess they just used a combo of thermal paste and glue which Artic Silver sells.

[dafink]

I was wrong, they did only use thermal paste.

I didn't take into account the fact that they were sandwiched together for 2yrs so it would be sticking a little bit. I guess since the lever was down that that's what screwed the pins up.

I now know exactly how this goes and it should work fine. Just waiting for ups to arrive but how bout that link I sent ya?

Fan and heatsink look ok to you?

[jlreich]

I didn't take into account the fact that they were sandwiched together for 2yrs so it would be sticking a little bit. I guess since the lever was down that that's what screwed the pins up.

Yeah they can stick after being in there for several years. You have to be careful when removing old HSF's. But sometimes there is nothing you can do and the CPU just comes out with it. :( And yes the lever being down when the CPU came out is what messed up the pins.

The HSF looks fine. It's a Thermaltake, if nothing else it should at least be better than a stock HSF. :)

[mjc]

No glue...the don't worry about dosing their toilet seat...

[HomeSA]

Yeah they can stick after being in there for several years.

I have used a hair dryer for that situation.

[dafink]

Processor came today so i'm all set with that. Got this Thermaltake heatsink with fan so i'll be installing that later on. Going to a Devils-Thrashers game so I can't set it up till tonite.

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2216888&cp=&origkw=heatsink&kw=heatsink&parentPage=search

Seeing as I have that processor this would seem to work best.

I do have a question as i'm not sure if it's already got thermal paste on it or not.

The copper core at the bottom of the heat sink, there's some white substance in a square in the middle of the copper core. Not quite sure what that is so I didn't want to place the paste or the processor till I knew exactly what that was.

[HomeSA]

The copper core at the bottom of the heat sink, there's some white substance in a square in the middle of the copper core. Not quite sure what that is so I didn't want to place the paste or the processor till I knew exactly what that was.

Most likely thermal paste. At least on the ones I've bought.

[jlreich]

Yep that would be thermal paste. No need to apply anymore. ;)

[dafink]

So I put the processor into my pc with the arrow on the processor facing the arrow on the board and I hafta say, it slid in alot easier then I thought. Just placed it in and it kinda fit and when I placed the lever down it was secure.

Put the heatsink in over it, secured that with the metal lever and it was set.

Turned on the pc and....nothing.

First I thought that it was a monitor problem of some kind till I noticed that the cd-rom light (one that turns on when you first boot or put a cd in) would do that loading cycle during first boot, only it did it every 3-4 seconds.

I'm pretty sure I put the processor in securely. I mean, I lined it up and it just kinda dropped into place. If the heatsink isn't level on the processor and the black thing I showed the pic of could that be the problem?

I have a feeling that it's what I think it is...and it's my worst nightmare as I really hope not. Just don't say what I think it might be because then I just spent $99 (plus fans, thermal glue) for absolutly nothing as i'll need a new pc.

I think i'm going to get one now anyways because i'm just tired of all this bs.

Even if I have to walk through everything as if i'm an idiot with those tech support people atleast i'll have a warranty where they'd replace this stuff instead of me doing it. They'd walk through every conceivable problem until there's a solution or it's replaced.

Being Amish has it's perks I feel....I hate computers sometimes.

[HomeSA]

You may have knocked something lose while messing inside you computer. Check all cables, connections, component cards, etc, and make sure everything is seated and connected tight.

[jlreich]

Also it's a good idea to clear the CMOS when replacing a CPU. Unplug the system, pull out the coin sized battery on the mobo for at least ten minutes.

I agree with HomeSA, sounds likely something got knocked around inside the computer. And don't forget simple stuff like did you plug in the CPU fan to the mobo? What about the square 4pin auxiliary power connector?

[alex666]

Dafink, take a breather if need be and don't panic.

Hey, I'm in a similar situation, as I may have just screwed a mobo. I won't go into all the details, but somehow after installing a new hsf on my cpu and northbridge chip, video no longer works, at least for the pci-e slot. Now it works fine for the on-board video, which this board happens to have, and this AM I installed an old pci video card, which also fired right up as it should. So who knows, maybe the pci-e video card died on me. It is new and inexpensive, so who knows. Or maybe I screwed up the northbridge chip when adding the new hsf such that it only affects the pci-e slot. The point is that I don't know yet, still need to do more trouble-shooting.

And you'll need to do the same. I once installed a new cpu and hsf on a system, and when I turned on the power, my system seemed to shake like a milk-shake machine. As it turned out, there was a very very thin layer of protective tape on the bottom of the hsf. Probably the most bone-headed geek move I've made. I didn't occur to me that that was the problem until I was drifting off to sleep. Anyway, that system is still working almost four years later.

So hang in there. What jl and HomeSA suggested is right on. Plus, you may just need to remove the hsf and cpu, make sure all the socket holes are free from any debris, and reseat everything all over again.

And BTW, don't ever count on on-line techs solving your pc problems, even from big-name firms. Geez, if anything, go with a local mom and pop shop that builds their own.

marty

[dafink]

Hey guys, I know I need to just breathe and relax. It's just frusterating when something goes wrong and you buy the piece that's supposed to fix it only when you fix the problem that started it all it still doesn't work.

I got two friends, one of which is a network admin and the other goes out and fixes pc's so i'll be calling them and hopefully they can help me.

I did pull the cmos out for 20 min for good measure, still nothing.

Where is the the auxiliary power connecter? I'll take any other pics you might need to give you a better picture (no pun intended) of what's going on.

I know even the big companies and their techs might not be any better help. Just saying that if I did have a problem and we couldn't figure it out that they'd send me the part instead of me having to pay and install it myself, and troubleshoot if it doesn't work.

There's been a few times while on the phone with Dell techs that the solution's come to me and i've fixed it myself.

I'm close to just starting a post in upgrading about what i'm looking for with a new pc and just going that route...try to figure out what's wrong with this one after I know a new one's on the way

[HomeSA]

So I put the processor into my pc .....

Did you use antistatic wristwrap when handling the CPU?

[dafink]

SUCCESS!

So the last time I posted here the pc was just constantly rebooting but nothing on the screen was showing. I had pulled the cmos and nothing, couldn't figure out what else was wrong.

My friends suggested to pull the ram and put that back in and just go over everything. I'm not really sure if it was putting the ram back in or connecting one of the various cables..maybe even just jiggling the heatsink but it worked.

So after doing whatever it was, the bios was loading, xp screen was loading but it was still restarting. Couldn't figure out what was wrong since safe mode was working fine but my friends suggested I either burn a program that'll tell me if I need to reinstall xp or just reinstall xp. I decided to just reinstall xp so I had the installation delete the xp that was there and reinstalled.

Had to reinstall some of the drivers and my programs in the start menu BUT no format and I didn't lose anything but the stuff in my documents so i'm pretty happy.

It's great to have a resource like this where you can get help with a problem or even just a question. People here answer question after question with no problem at all and i'm just happy to have found the site.

I really appreciate you guy's help with this as i've learned quite a bit about processors and what to and not to do.

I do have a firefox question as I lost my bookmarks but since I didn't format they should be in the folder somewhere. Where would I ask a question like that or with any other program?

Eventually i'll be making a post about that pc upgrade I want but with my pc working I think I can hold off on that for another few weeks.

[alex666]

Awesome. Sounds like it was several things, but I'm glad you've got it sorted out. One of these forums addresses software. Is there a mozilla folder anywhere on your drive? Also, is there a setting in firefox maybe to restore the bookmarks, or look for them. I've made so many installations that sometimes I find it refreshing just to start over so I don't have a bunch of old useless bookmarks.

But anyway, really glad it worked out for you. I don't visit this forum enough, or use the PC Guide enough. But I try to check in occasionally, as it's just an awesome resource. Take care.

marty

[mjc]

The reinstall of XP probably caused FireFox to create a new user profile...just search, the old one should be there(and if you copy the entire contents of the old profile, while FF is NOT running, you should be able to get everything back, except passwords).

[dafink]

I didn't create a profile name with firefox though. Just loaded up firefox and used it.

I'm in the profiles folder in firefox but the bookmarks file there is just the basic bookmarks.

[mjc]

Look for something along the lines of an 'old' user profile for Windows...then look in that account's Application/Data folder.

The User accounts may be Hidden...sometimes when a repair install is done, new accounts are created without wiping the old ones

[dafink]

I'm going to post in the firefox forums cause I can't figure this out.

Having a few other issues so I might post that too.