To Build or Not To Build

[Jericho]

Ok. My old Gateway 450 MHZ, 128 MB, 12gig HD w/an ancient TNT video card just doesn't cut it anymore with the new games. I need a new computer. As I read these forums the obvious answer is that I should BUILD myself, using components I select. That's the logical next step. BUT, I've never done any computer building, and after three years of owning this, my first, computer, I'm still pretty much computer illiterate. Should I take the step to building on my own or just get an affordable Dell or Gateway? The thing to remember is: I've never done any of this before. This is new to me. I can hardly change a car headlight without f'ing something up. Is computer building beyond me? I'm hoping you guys will point in one direction or the other. I want to build, yet I want to be talked out of building. I want to buy a new package system, yet I want to be talked out of buying this way. Yes I'm confused. Any input appreciated http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Steve48]

Hello,

Are you good at problem solving? Are you good at reading tecnical manuals? See if somebody you know has a tech manual for a motherboard. See if you can read and UNDERSTAND what the manual is telling you. Some manuals are better than others, in that some are easy to read and others are hard. In my opinion, the hardest part, after you have selected your hardware, is setting up the motherboard. It is almost impossible to plug in the power connectors wrong, RAM will generally fit only in one way. Your PCI cards will only fit in one way. The ribbon cables CAN be put in baskwards, but remember that the red, or sometimes black stripe on the ribbon cable denotes pin #1. Your HDD will show you where the corresponding #1 pin is. So in review, if you can understand the motherboard manual, then go for it! But if you are not comftorable, get a knowlegable friend or by pre-built. Oh, and one last bit of advice..GET the best Power Supply you can....it can make a world of difference!

Good Luck!
Steve

[kfh]

Hi jericho,
If I can do it then anyone can.
This is the only one I have built and only my second computer, in two and a half years.
Do a lot of research and take it from there.
Start here http://www.pcguide.com/buy/req/buyingBuilding-c.html
http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
kfh.


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Sequitur Patrem Non Passibus Aequis

[This message has been edited by kfh (edited 05-13-2002).]

[saphalline]

I think you also need to remember that you won't just be mounting a motherboard and plugging in some RAM and drives, you will also need to format and partition your hard drive, install Windows (or other OS if you are so inclined), and install all drivers. The software side of things can be just as intimidating to newbies as the hardware. The only difference is that a bad software installation can be redone but fried hardware is done for http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif.

I would have to agree with the others on the mobo difficulty setting. Everything else, especially installing Windows, is just following directions.

If you are truly unsure of your abilities but willing to try, I would suggest buying a book on building computers and see if you can understand it. You don't even necessarily need the latest updated one, either. You only need it for the pictures and the general guidelines. This is a nice cheap way to get your feet wet without commiting to anything. And of course we can give you some guidelines here, as well.

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"No, we do not gnaw on our kitty." - Dr. Evil

[joea64]

If you do decide to build your own, I agree with the others - make sure the motherboard you pick has a _good_ manual!! I was fortunate here; the ECS K7VZA I selected has an excellent manual, and I hardly even had to change any of the factory-default settings at all, just screw it in and tinker with the CMOS a bit. I can hardly guarantee you so easy an experience, though I certainly wish it for you.

The good news is, once you get past that big hurdle, putting everything else together _is_ just a matter of following the directions. I would recommend you to set up one peripheral at a time after you get your basic mobo/HD/video/CD-ROM combo going - it's easier to just do one thing after another in paced sequence, and it cuts down on the risk of causing inadvertent conflicts between devices. Last week when I had to reinstall Windows, for instance, I made sure that I didn't try to slap every device driver in at once but took it one thing at a time, making sure it worked, then rebooting, then installing the next driver, verifying successful installation, rebooting, repeat, rinse and lather as necessary....(uh, wrong set of directions.) It's tedious, I know, but it's tried and true all the same.

-Joe-


Originally posted by Jericho:
Ok. My old Gateway 450 MHZ, 128 MB, 12gig HD w/an ancient TNT video card just doesn't cut it anymore with the new games. I need a new computer. As I read these forums the obvious answer is that I should BUILD myself, using components I select. That's the logical next step. BUT, I've never done any computer building, and after three years of owning this, my first, computer, I'm still pretty much computer illiterate. Should I take the step to building on my own or just get an affordable Dell or Gateway? The thing to remember is: I've never done any of this before. This is new to me. I can hardly change a car headlight without f'ing something up. Is computer building beyond me? I'm hoping you guys will point in one direction or the other. I want to build, yet I want to be talked out of building. I want to buy a new package system, yet I want to be talked out of buying this way. Yes I'm confused. Any input appreciated http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif



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Alternate email: joea64@yahoo.com

[Dunkalis]

In manual readibility, Tyan is the BEST. Also very stable. However, you only get a few of the tweak options of the ASUS, ABIT, and Soyo boards, and you don't get good overclocking options, if that matters to you. My friend lives by the Soyo Dragon, and it has features out the wazoo. Also, the processor brand is a big deal. AMD is cheaper by a wide margin, but their procs don't get to the same speed as the Pentium 4. Pentiums may seem bad in comparison, but they have a plethora of features, such as underclocking when the temperatures get too high, REAL overclockability on the new Northwoods, and a lesser chance of cracking the processor.

If you build, you get total control over all the components, can install EXACTLY what OS you want(XP, 98SE, Linux, whatever), and can get what you need. Go for building, its not that difficult. If you go AMD, get an aftermarket HSF. The ones that come with the chips are the worst on earth.

[Nooyawkah]

No one is as mechanically inept as I. My mother used to tell me to get an education because there wasn't a shot in hell I could make a living using my hands. Now 54, I just built my first computer. It was an experience I wouldn't trade for anything.

I'm not an expert like some of these folks, but my suggestion would be to peruse the how-to sights and get a feel for it.
http://www.buildyourowncomputer.net/learntobuild.html http://www.pctrainingsolutions.co.uk/buildpc/case.htm http://www.hardwarecentral.com/hardwarecentral/tutorials/109/1/ http://www.webfreebees.net/howtobuildpc.html http://hansworse.freeyellow.com/ http://www.pcmech.com/build.htm http://www.pcworld.com/features/article/0,aid,55674,00.asp
I think I can find a video I used that was helpful. If you'd like it, I'll send it to you.

There aren't that many parts: case (needs to be mid or full size so your hands will easily fit), a motherboard, a power supply (sometimes they come together), a CPU (Athlons are cheaper than Pentiums, both good), a heat sink w/ fan to cool the CPU, a harddrive, some fans, a video card, a sound card, a modem or some means of Internet connection, 1 or 2 CD drives (or DVD, CD-RW whatever), a floppy drive, some cables and an operating system (WIDOWS XP, for example).

I wouldn't advise overclocking until you have the experience. You may never want to overclock. If partitioning is too advanced, you don't have to do it.

It's cheaper to buy your stuff from only a few vendors to save shipping.

Forum members will get you through almost anything. Ask them.

I've had 5 Dells and they've all be excellent. A good way to go if you don't want to build. Good luck whatever you choose.

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They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night.
---Edgar Allan Poe

[Jericho]

Wow, thanks for the extensive feedback. I think I'm just about convinced to throw caution to the wind and attempt to build. A $500+ truck repair bill has slowed down my plans, which at least gives me more time to research. If only I can decide on a good case to start with, motherboard, and processor, then I will have taken the first large step. Hmmm. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Whyzman]

Jericho

I wrote this a bit ago while at my office when you first began the thread and forgot I had it there! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif Hope it still applies for you.

I sort of look at buying proprietary and building like purchasing a VCR-TV combo. It is convenient having the two in one unit, usually a bit cheaper than the two separate, and the saving of space can be a plus not having to find a shelf for each.

The downside is that if either part of the combo goes down, you use the whole unit. You may know it's the VCR that's the problem...or, know it's the TV's antics giving you problems...but, you lose the resources of both while it's being fixed.

Similarly, you might be able to troubleshoot your Dell and find out the HDD is going in circles, your RAM can't remember where it put your car keys, your Vid card is seeing double, or your CPU is toast. However, back it goes...lock, stock, and barrel, rather than swapping out, with a quick trip to the computer store to get you up and running again! You lose the use of the whole thing, and can take a number and wait in line in the service department!

Price wise, proprietary might be cheaper or at best comparable for an entry level machine. Along with the potential loss of your entire computer should you need repairs, I see two additional trade-offs: One, you are subject to the OEM Tech-support who need to be knowledgeable regarding all the various manufacturer’s devices v.s. direct tech-support with a manufacturer who would be much more likely to know the ins and outs of their devices. Secondly, you’re subject to what the OEM carries for devices and upgrades v.s. you can pretty much pick and choose what you want to put together!

On a personal note, I hate when I have a problem with a computer! However, it's been during those times that I have learned the most! I'm more aware of what to look for when a problem develops. I know my way around the inside of the box! I'm not afraid to swap out a bad drive and get back up and running! And, as everyone has pretty much stated: The sense of accomplishment is quite a rush...and fun too! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif


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May all your dealings in life be win/win!


Whyzman
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Reserved for Punishing Humor...A Pessimist's blood is always B-negative!

[Nooyawkah]

Originally posted by Jericho:
If only I can decide on a good case to start with, motherboard, and processor, then I will have taken the first large step. Hmmm. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif


I didn't use one myself because I hadn't learned enough yet, but the Antec cases seem to be excellent. They're roomy enough to work in, nice looking and well built. Their "mini" case is actually mid-size. The SX660 (with firewire) and SX635 both come with good power supplies and are in the $90-$110 range. A lot of the folks here will swear by the larger Antec. To me they're the case that devoured my room....huge! If you want to spend more cash, the Lian Li cases are great.

Prices of Athlon CPUs are dropping fast. If you buy a couple of notches down from the lastest you'll save big bucks. The XP 1800+ or 1900+ seem like good buys. I defer motherboards to the experts. You also might consider not using the heatsink/fan that comes with the CPU and upgrading. Again, I defer.


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They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night.
---Edgar Allan Poe

[YODA74]

Just think of the fun you'll have building your own
http://www.dreamwater.net/tech/yoda74/Desktop.jpg

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YODA74@windows-sucks.com
CCMR (http://www.dreamwater.net/tech/yoda74/index.html)



[This message has been edited by YODA74 (edited 05-17-2002).]

[saphalline]

If you're interested in an AMD-based mobo, I know that iisbob has been chanting the mantra of the ECS K7S5A, which he and others have described as one of the easiest motherboards to set-up. For beginners, I also recommend boards from MSI and Gigabyte - many not-too-complicated and straight-forward options from them, so you won't get lost in advanced settings and RAID connectors http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif. Power users and overclockers tend to prefer boards from Asus and Abit mainly, but like others have and will tell you, these aren't good for first timers.

For CPU's, we really only have a few choices today: Intel brand or AMD brand. Intel has its mPGA socket 478 chips, the Pentium 4 ('A' version or Northwood), and the new Celeron (based on the P4 design, very recently released). AMD has its socket A (or socket 462) chips, the Athlon XP (competing against the P4), and the Duron (cheapest power available). Because CPU prices are so darn dirt-cheap right now, it really doesn't make much sense to go with a Duron, a suitably slow Athlon XP (say a 1700+ version) is cheap enough as roughly $100 or less. Slower P4's are within budget reach, as well, but those new Celerons are just as advanced (albeit with less L2 cache) and even cheaper. P4's are clocked higher and run cooler, but the Athlon XP is cheaper for the performance - doesn't matter that much, choose which ever one you want.

Just realize that DDR RAM is the way to go for AMD and cheap P4 machines. For the best performance P4 machine, the more expensive RDRAM-in-pairs reigns supreme. Also, wouldn't you know it, Intel has now unveiled their 533MHz bus P4's, so be sure any Intel mobo you're researching supports the 533MHz bus, even you don't intend to use it right away.

Cases are one of those things which a "budget" version is leaps and bounds behind the quality of a "decent" version, but first timers will find the "high-end" versions to be a waste of money (until you feel the need to overclock). Generally speaking, a case at $100 or more is as cheap as you'll want to go. The price isn't really that expensive, because they come with a 300W to 400W power supply and usually a couple of case fans to get you started. Ok, so the power supplies that come bundled with cases aren't the best and the included case fans are usually noisy, but it will get you started. Besides, my main rig uses a so-called "evil OEM" power supply and I haven't felt the need to replace it. All my problems so far are the regular Windows-related or incompatible-game-related, none of the signs of an inadequate power supply. Although this may be due to the fact that I always use a power strip with $2000+ insurance against electrical damage http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif.

*sigh*... choosing the appropriate mobo & CPU combo can get rather frustrating at times, but eventually you just have to jump in and buy something. Can't sit around all the time waiting for the "next best thing" - you'd be waiting forever in computer upgrading limbo!

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"No, we do not gnaw on our kitty." - Dr. Evil

[Boo Radley]

Jericho

Might I recommend a book entitled "Upgrading & Repairing PCs" by Scott Mueller(currently at 13th or 14 edition).

It is a little bit too technical at times, but I found it to be most useful in understanding the inner workings of the PC.

After reading about the various components in a PC, I'm now pretty comfortable in replacing or adding components, although I am still yet to build a system from scratch.

Cheers



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Boo!®