How flawed is Windows XP?

[SaiyanFury]

I've been using XP Pro for some years now, and I've never seen such buggy software. I use it for a little while, say 1 month, and then my DVD drive stops reading discs. I originally thought that my DVD drive was defective, and as such, bought a new DVD burner. I recently discovered through running System Mechanic, that it was Windows that was screwing up my original DVD burner. Now it reads just fine, and I have a second burner installed. I can't stand Windows, but it's all I know:p

[deddard]

Hi - Welcome aboard!

XP pro is the better of the two on offer - at least you can configure some security on there, and monitor problems such as those you mentioned through event logging.

There'll always be problems with the registry as long as third parties produce software - the other option (microsoft only) is unthinkable, but would still throw up problems (I can remember doing a clean install of 98 and finding over 500 problems with the registry!)

The alternatives of course are MAC and Linux - in fact I'd recommend anyone to give Linux a go anyway. Get a pre-built one on DVD and just put it in you drive - you're not installing anything, but you can get to see what it's all about.

Vista is just around the corner, but I wouldn't touch it with a bargepole for a while - remember XP was supposed to be the be all and end all of security?

In fact anyone in the UK like me is hardly like to go for Vista anyway - we'll pay twice the price of the US, and won't be able to purchase extra licences cheaply like the States.

[classicsoftware]

I'm of two minds on Windows.

First Mind: What a buggy POS OS. The security is bad, the BSOD, the problems. It's a wonder they are still in business.

Second Mind: It's amazing. I can't believe it works as well as it does. Just think of going down to your local Chevy Dealer and saying I like that Malibu you have in the showroom, but I want that new Chrysler transmission and the hot new ford cooling system and the BMW suspension. And by the way, I want to be able to add Porsche engine as soon as I can save a few bucks. I find it amazing Windows works as well as it does. People want this OS to be so complicated that it can perform all of these neat functions, but they want it to be as cheap and easy to use as a TV. It's just not going to EVER happen. As long as humans can change things, they can screw them up.

Security: There are two reasons why Windows is so insecure. The first is it is backward compatible. You can still Run DOS programs in Windows XP. The second is MS is so dominant, it does not really innovate unless it is forced to by competition or the need for new sales. When you buy a house, it comes with a basic security system. The doors and windows lock. It's up to you to add more secure locks and an alarm system if you see fit. With a PC it's the same, though MS's basic security is pretty weak and they will address this in Vista. I would still bypass the MS standard security and set it up the way I feel my system would best be protected.

There is more to this then my little rant and I am usually closer to the MS Basher side than the MS Defender side, but Windows XP is not as bad as you are making it out to be.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

say 1 month, and then my DVD drive stops reading discs.

And can we assume 'Trying to copy copyrighted dvd"s' fits in that same sentence? Or using the cheapest dvd burner money can buy? No offense intended.

Could be a rootkit or firmware, neither of which are MS

[azzey]

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, just a small rant.

I've come across plenty of people who blame Microsoft for making crappy OS's blah blah how it's all Microsoft's fault that their computer is so slow, etc. Then I sit down at the computer and find 2000 viruses and malware apps! I'd say 9 times out of 10, the problem with a computer (excluding hardware problems) is caused by bad maintenance or bad surfing habits.

Windows isn't always the root of the problem. The moment you install a buggy program (let's say it modifies your registry and 'accidentally' overwrites some critical system files), it doesn't matter how "good" Windows XP is, because it has been crippled by a flawed program!

I have developed a system for me that works. On my main gaming rig, I don't mess around with freeware programs (that's what my old box is for), I keep everything clean, safe, and organized. I very rarely have problems except for the odd driver issue, etc (which isn't necessarily Microsoft's fault).

On the my other (old) box I do keep things safe and organized, but I do play around and test freeware/shareware apps, and quite often the OS does become sluggish. That has to be expected! Because I like to fool around with potentially unsafe programs, I have to sacrifice an hour every weekend to reinstall Windows XP.

No OS can't be expected to constantly clean up after the user.

[jlreich]

I also tend to be a little more on the MS basher side. But I have to agree with Azzey on one point for sure, user error is rampant. I don't surf where I shouldn't, I use a safer browser (Firefox), Keep my AV updated, and rarely have any problems.

But like many around here I am not an average user. It took some considerable time and effort to get to that point. The majority of users just want to turn the system on go. The don't want to know how or why it works, they just want it to work.

For ease of use MS has done pretty good for the most part really. But when it comes to security the average user is left in the dust. And when it comes to the OS keeping itself running well without user intervention, well it just doesn't happen. I think Vista is taking care of some of this, but not to the extent it needs to. Perhaps Vista will turn out better once it's been out for awhile and becomes mainstream. Time will tell...

If you go back to the early years of the PC Guide forums you will find similar threads about XP. ;)

[deddard]

I totally agree that User error is a huge part of Windoze problems.

MS has to take some of the blame here though - the majority of home users use 'home', which should never have seen the light of day.

With XP Pro you can download security templates to reduce the impact of users on the computer - if they only released the Pro version, and then released some security templates which were in idiot language, there would be fewer problems.

Of course, we're only going to get 5 different versions of Vista.....

[SufferWell1396]

I support MS Windows, i mean, i hear people saying "COMPUTERS WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF EVERYONE RAN LINUX!" ... If everyone ran linux there would be just as much user error, and since it would be the majority os, many more virus' would be for linux also, Remember, No Operating system is perfect.

[Cstrikedish]

I support MS Windows, i mean, i hear people saying "COMPUTERS WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF EVERYONE RAN LINUX!" ... If everyone ran linux there would be just as much user error, and since it would be the majority os, many more virus' would be for linux also, Remember, No Operating system is perfect.

I like Windows XP very much! It is so good that works with my computer.

[Beachcoffee]

Just a comment:

Nearly everything I have is broken --- my car, my stereo, my cordless phone, my easy chair, my health. The one thing I have which is working flawlessly is my computer with windowes xp. I rely on it and it has not let me down.

But then it has taken me since 1972 in my career with computers to come to where I am now at with experience and knowledge. That is 35 years. I see so many new people come into computers. The deal is the computer industry continously applies layers of proprietary and disinforming crud to what really is a very simple system. Think about what could have been possible if Microsoft had been open-source.

[mjc]

Hello, computer? (asked in a medium Scottish accent)

[Beachcoffee]

mjc you know your supposed to turn the mouse over and hold it up to your mouth when you say that....

[Paul Komski]

WinXP has been, pre-eminently, one of the easiest elaborate operating systems to install and use with a wide range of hardware. It is IMO the best OS that MS has produced but I won't disagree if peeps have another favorite.

It is still flawed (of course) in many ways but not nearly as flawed as the whole MS ethos which sits on platform of greed. MS has always been ahead of the game when it comes to user friendliness and glitz and marketing and behind the game when it comes to cost and security and customer support.

[saphalline]

It must be user error. That's the only thing I can think of. People are always talking about these errors they get with Windows.

"Oh, it lost my DVD drive after a month!" "It only boots to the desktop once every 3 times!" "Windows lost my AOL email!" "It's always crashing on me!" "I get an error when trying to install a game!"

Blah blah blah. I'm sorry... I don't have these problems. WinXP Pro has given me just 2 BSOD's since I started using it at home. I've done more core upgrades than that! I don't see a problem at all. My system works perfectly fine. What the $#^@ are the rest of you doing?? Seriously! Clue me in here! And it's not like all I do is surf the web and do email like grandma. No. I do high end gaming!

I don't mean to come down on all the members here on the forums. This rant is mostly for readers and those who come here only to start a flame war. I simply do not have problems with M$ operating systems in general, with the exception of ME. :p Win 95 worked reasonably well, Win98/98SE was nearly flawless for its time, and XP Pro is rock-solid. Like I said, I don't know what the rest of you are doing, but whatever it is, it ain't Windows! It's got to be something else.

[Galaxian]

problems with windows? heres the causes:

user habits
non-whql certified drivers
generic hardware (often resulting in poor driver/soft coding or hardware glitches)
junkware (most 3rd party apps, slap it out, fix it later and repeat less its not popular then abandon as is) includes inexperienced coders since so many noob's write for windows because its popular.

the fewer that use an os, the fewer problems/questions..etc, if osx or linux ruled the world it would be basically the same difference. hard to have a problem if theres not a dum@55 to cause it.
its like the difference between 500 cars on a road vs 20..more cars more chance for accidents.

if windows was opensource:

they would have no money to move outside of OS development to begin with, that means no xbox 360, no ms hardware nor games...basically you would have a linux, people here and there doing some code, slapping it out to public to await someone else...very very slow process, look how long it took linux to get where it is now.

bill gates wouldnt be riches man in world meaning theres billions and billions that he gives to charities all the time that wouldnt exist.

millions of jobs wouldnt exist.

likely no direct x, if so not as it is now, likely no standard or compliance and easy develepment tools for devs to work with...we may be years behind possibly.

[PrntRhd]

Galaxian,
I understand the reasoning but that is all speculation re other OSes, the OP asked about how flawed XP was, and has not been back since.

I think XP works rather well given its backwards compatibility. The "flaw" is the integration of IE into the operating system which makes security a bigger issue than would otherwise be the case.
The other flaw was the XP Home version that left proper file security in the Windows 98 era (all/none).

[YODA74]

In fact anyone in the UK like me is hardly like to go for Vista anyway


:).. Well Vista is just a gloryfied version of windows ME it will turn out to be nothing other than a joke. I've installed it on three machines and after a while got rid of it.
It will not be very good if you get a serious virus and have to do a complete fresh install (because you cannot)

http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/Ou/?p=414&tag=nl.e019

[deddard]

There's apparently a workaround for this:

http://www.tomcoyote.org/security/workaround-for-clean-install-with-vista-upgrade-dvds/76/

[YODA74]

There's apparently a workaround for this:



Not much of a work around when your old XP Full retail Version key is invalidated because of a vista upgrade.. Vista is a joke

[Variable]

The OS doesn't matter, users who don't understand what is going on will always break their machines. If you make it simpler for the end user like a MAC then you get less flexibility and functionality in a business enviroment. I have already seen problems with Vista and applications and it looks like the same issue that XP had.

[jlreich]

Not much of a work around when your old XP Full retail Version key is invalidated because of a vista upgrade.. Vista is a joke
What happens if you decide you don't like vista and want to go back to XP? Too bad, so sad...

[Wee_Guy]

To all of you who hadn't already guessed that i'm a ___ user:

I USE OS X (Mac) AND HATE WINDOWS!!!

Sorry about that, i just had to say it. But i do HATE windows and i get really angry in IT at school, the computers there run windows and it drives me mad, i wish i could install OS X on my user account at school.

By the way, for those of you who are getting tired of windows, try OS X, i used to use windows but i made the swich and i definately don't regret it!

You could visit a Apple store or PC world to try out one of the Mac's there, then you could buy a Mac, Jigsaw sell them pretty cheap, what about a Mac Mini, you could use your current monitor, keyboard and mouse!

You could even run windows on it for free with bootcamp, or for money, with paralells desktop. That way, if you need to run windows because of some programs that you can't get for Mac, you just boot into windows with bootcamp, or start paralells.

Boot camp requires a windows xp sp2 disc, no lower, and, whenn it is set up, you hold down [alt] when you are booting up, then choose whether to boot into windows or Mac.

Paralells can run windows in a window and has other cool features. But it costs money.

Boot Camp:http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/

Paralells:http://www.parallels.com/landingpage/dskd10_2/?gclid=CNqu4Jq9qYoCFQROEAodziB1sA

Apple:http://www.apple.com/

Apple Get a Mac:http://www.apple.com/getamac/

Apple Get a Mac ads:http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/

Apple Mac mini: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/6274001/wa/PSLID?mco=B3C47B0&nclm=Macmini&wosid=V4Y9qu8k33x52uJzznf1pv1ZzML

Jigsaw:http://www.jigsaw24.com/

Mac mini at Jigsaw: http://www.jigsaw24.com/cats/top_menu/apple_desktops_mac_mini.asp

And for those of you who have:

A) Actually read this rant and
B) Taken it into consideration :

Here's a link to a Mac forum site:http://forums.macosxhints.com/

<<<End Rant>>>

[Variable]

I have seen Mac parallels die and all the data be unrecoverable. It works ok, just make sure you back up data somewhere other than the Mac...

[mjc]

You know what the real flaw with Windows is?

It is the fact that it seems the Marketing Division is in charge of the show.

[Paul Komski]

By the way, for those of you who are getting tired of windows, try OS X, i used to use windows but i made the swich and i definately don't regret it!
NB The difference between knocking Windows and knocking Microsoft.

As far as Macs go, they have never to my knowledge been knocked by users of these forums. Macs have their advocates but the extra expense and the loss of flexibility (particularly from a DIY point of view) do not endear them to the ethos of these forums which, as the name indicates, form a PC Guide.

[Wee_Guy]

I have joined a Mac forum as well, i just sometimes have the odd PC question, or a question that applies to computers as a whole, i'n which case it is good to ask 2 forums instead of just 1.

[saphalline]

i used to use windows but i made the swich and i definately don't regret it!Well good for you! Unfortunately, that won't work for me. Unless by some miracle Apple can fix the gaming problem on OS X and let me build my own Mac. If they can do that, I can make the switch for good. Until then, gamers are limited to Windows. End of story.

I have used OS X and I really like it. And the Mac Mini's are fantastic machines for grandma, tight spaces, aesthetic/ambiance environments, workhorse systems, and internet cafes. But I use my main system for only two things: these forums and playing games. And since Mac's can only do one of those, they are far from the perfect computer for me and any other gamer on this site. And just to point out the obvious, Mac OS X is based on Unix, as is Linux - and Linux is also a very big part of this forums.

Feel free to express your opinions around here, but keep in mind that the audience here isn't full of candidates for switching to Apple. Especially me, since I have no problems with my own Windows-based systems. Come to think of it, I haven't a major OS problem in years! Maybe I'll make a WinME virtual machine and change that... :D

[Wee_Guy]

I suppose that you do have a bit of a point there.

Oh, don't get vista then:http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/02/12/vistagames/index.php?lsrc=mcrss

Wouldn't a Mac Pro or a Mac Book Pro do the job?
The comatibility is a bit of a problem but if you have a windows XP SP2 disc, you can install windows on any Intel Mac for free with Bootcamp.

I do feel kind of sorry for you, if you could build your own Mac, would you switch?

I mean, how can you look at OS X, say that it's nice then walk away back to the horrors of windows!!!
I bought a Mac and every time i use windows i find myself getting angry and my blood pressure probably rises too--That's what makes IT a nightmare for me!

Mac Pro:http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObjects/ukBusiness?type=bizukPRO&qprm=67752&family=MacPro&cid=AOSA300000239721

[Paul Komski]

Wee_Guy We are not dumb enough to realise that you like Macs but there may come a time when we could decide you might be in Apple's pay and are simply Spamming here to promote their wares. Be warned. We are here to help the vast majority of computer users who don't use a Mac (however good they might be) and that is the raison d'etre of these forums. It can get irritating to be told with some repetition just how good the other stuff is. If you want to participate usefully in these forums you will be made very welcome - but ranting on about Macs is not going to endear the majority.

[HomeSA]

I do feel kind of sorry for you, .........


That's not a good way to continue your debate. Folks here have given you very polite and considerate responses, but you seem to want to start antagonizing them.

If you are here to start mud-slinging, you won't get far.

[saphalline]

I mean, how can you look at OS X, say that it's nice then walk away back to the horrors of windows!!!Well, on the one hand, I haven't just walked away from OS X. I do have access to a Mac and find it to be a very reliable and fun system to use (in fact I'm using it right now). I rarely have to reboot it, which is a nice change from Windows. Although I do have a problem with the limited one-button touchpad. ;)

And on the other hand, I've already explained multiple times in this thread that I don't have a problem with Windows. My main WinXP Pro gaming machine doesn't give me a problem. So these "horrors" of which you speak stay far away from me. And since I don't have a problem with my Windows-based computers, I don't see the horrors of Windows at my house.

Maybe I'm lucky, or maybe I just know how to use computers without breaking them. But whatever the case may be, I don't have any problems. I know other people do, but I don't. Whether it's Windows or Linux or Mac OS, the computers that I use work fine.

Oh, and in case you didn't know, since you're probably not a gamer, Vista does have some usefulness! :p It is now the premiere gaming platform for PC's going into the future. Perhaps you don't care about computer gaming, but for those of us who do, Vista + D3D 10 represents a very significant leap in gaming technologies. So yes, I do plan on using Vista because, like I said, I do gaming. And gaming is going to be big on Vista.

[SufferWell1396]

I think that Windows is a great OS, ive used OS-X Puma, and i just found it to be annoying, but thats probably because ive grown up on Windows and i seem to get frustrated without a start bar :D

In all seriousness, i think that Windows is a great line of OS's. I grew up on Windows 98FE*first edition* on an IBM Aptiva, then i upgraded to Me. Me was great, still is, i use it on my older computers, and XP, well i couldnt be happier. User error and the like, what OS isnt flawed, answer me that (without saying Linux, which i really dont favor) and i will show you a green dog.

[jlreich]

http://www.houseofplum.com/gallery/Green%20Dog.jpg

:D :D

[HomeSA]

:) :) Lmao :) :)

[setoguro]

Have to say for myself that I've had no real problems with XP. The thing I hate about it is the price and now I have to come up with some cash to get Vista just so I can learn the thing. I think I'm going to upgrade my Slackware box tonight in honor of the Vista release just because I can and it's free. Just got my girlfriend into computers she's cutting her teeth on Linux.

I'm not all that fond of Macs either but I love those Mac PC commercials.

[YODA74]

What happens if you decide you don't like vista and want to go back to XP? Too bad, so sad...

Moron you are :cool:

[Variable]

I don't have problems with my Windows computers either and I don't run any non MS app for firewall or spyware. IMHO 90% of all issues with computers are user based.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

IMHO 90% of all issues with computers are user based
What about those who don't visit 'iffy' sites but have people in their address books who do? Spam from vendors, drive by bots, deceptive software vendor ads that claim you are infected etc and lure you into false adverts?

This is user error? Yeah, right! :rolleyes:

Maybe you and or I can get by without any safeguard softwares, but for one example, due to the need for blocking them, I wouldn't be hearing from very many of my friends, family and or associates.

I don't know about you, but I prefer to live my life in some other way than a monk or a hermit! :eek:

This may be the era of information, but information involves communication. And with communication comes communicable diseases... :o