Consumers lose round

[HewittC4]

The music industry, in their continuing quest to drive away their customers, won a decision on thursday. The US Copyright Office decided to charge Webcasters 70 cents per song per 1000 listeners. The fees are retroactiveto 1998. This is half of what an arbritor set in May.

What this means is that internet radio stations will have to pay the music industry for the privledge of promoting the music industry's products. Traditional radio broadcasts are exempt from paying the royalties.

John Jeffrey, vicce president of Live365 Inc., the largest internet radio network, said even the lower rate may kill the fledgling industry.

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It's a thankless job, but I have alot of Karma to burn off

[Rick]

For those of us ( MYSELF Included ) who don’t listen to web cast radio
Can see this as an advantage .
Less Web cast = More bandwidth available for other things on the web.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

The music industry, in their continuing quest to drive away their customers

How can you call one a customer when they want it for free? That's a leech in my book.

The music industry keeps most of the profits from reaching the artists in the first place that are just trying to make an honest wage. The only way to make any decent money is to go on tour charging admission.

Maybe I come from outer space or something but 99 and 9/10ths of my music collection is bought outright and legit. I know what a thankless job it is to try to make any money in music and nowadays it's much worse because the general public wants it all for nothing. They can spend more on their stereos than I have in my truck yet not want to spend a dime to support the author of the very thing they bought the hi-fi equipment in the first place.

If that ain't biting the hand that feeds them I don't know what else to call it.

Alright I'm afraid of heights and will get off from this soapbox now... http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif

GO METALLICA!!!

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I've got it made in the shade as long as the tree don't fall...

[HewittC4]

What make you decide what music you are going to buy? Do you just go to the music store and say, "Hey, that CD cover is pretty". Or do you listen to songs on the radio and then buy the CDs of the bands you heard? Are you paying for that broadcast that you hear on your radio? No? Does that make you a leech? What makes internet radio different from broadcast radio?

You say that 99 and 9/10th of you music collection is bought outright and legit, mine is 100% legit. At my home, broadcast radio doesn't come in very well. I listen to about 10 hours of internet radio each week. I listen to broadcast radio about 2 hours (in my car) each week. Internet radio gives my a chance to hear music that I would want to buy that I wouldn't otherwise be able to hear. Now the RIAA is trying to take that away from me. So how am I supposed to hear new songs and decide what new CDs to buy. I only spend money on music I like and if I don't have the opportunity to decide if I like it, I am not going to spend my hard earned money on CDs.

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It's a thankless job, but I have alot of Karma to burn off

[Gallaeglagh]

I'm all for internet radio it's a shame that it's being squashed. My feeling is that in the long run the corporate money will come in and continue to destroy it just like FM totally sux and then the fees will be reduced and the little guys will still be overwhelmed and we'll have a third of the content being commercials. Woo F*****G Hoo!

Concerning the bandwidth issue, it doesn't matter to the general public at all. The public internet has vast capacity that's underused [dark fiber] and the only thing that matters in this regard is you and your ISP. Internet radio takes up only a small portion of the overall bandwidth and then mostly to broadband users.

Concerning Metallica, I fully support their view that their music belongs to them [then again it's always the bands that have made it huge that seem to have a problem with internet music] and they are cool enough to allow live taping at their concerts as the Grateful Dead always allowed and those recordings are totally legal to trade. Then again is Metallica still a band?

Musicians have always struggled to make it big and there's no reason to believe that internet radio or mp3s are going to make it tougher. IMHO the vast majority of musicians have gained enormous exposure through the net and now it's up to them to give it back to us consumers in concerts.

Then again I could be wrong.




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From the hallowed legends of railroad lore comes the Deep Fried Core.

[HewittC4]

I agree with Metallica that trading MP3s is wrong. But to outlaw MP3s and eliminate internet radio will only hurt the music industry because it hurts the consumers. Like I said before, Internet radio allows me to hear music that I will buy after I have heard it. Without internet radio, I don't hear the music and I don't buy the CDs.

As far as MP3s go, I frequently make long drives through areas that don't have broadcast radio. I had a CD player that could play CDs with MP3s recorded on it. This meant that I could listen to 1 CD for my entire trip. The MP3s I recorded on the CDs were from CDs that I paid for and the music industry collected their money. Now, the entertainment industry has labeled my a pirate because I want to use the products that I paid for in a manner that is legal. They want me to change CDs several times while I drive which will increase the chances that I might cause an accident.

Remember, all the arguements that the entertainment industry is making against MP3s and internet radio have been made before about other products. The entertainment industry has stated over and over again that audio tape, VHS tapes and CD-Rs will bankrupt their industry. All of these arguements have been incorrect and all of these products only increased their business once they stopped their whining and started working with the consumers, not against them.

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It's a thankless job, but I have alot of Karma to burn off

[Flick]

This is just another example of the LONG history of the music and movie industries crying foul for no good reason. Don't have the time to go into detail, but when the first reel to reel tape recorders became available to consumers, the recording industry wanted to ban private use. Same thing for cassette recorders, floppy disks, BETA, VHS, Minidisks, CD and now DVD's. The industry always rejects the idea that a consumer has the right to make copies. They have not learned that making copies increases their business and profits.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

I don't have any beef with one who wants to use mp3's or anything, it's just the thought of someone that goes and buys CD's and rips them then distributes them on shareware. I admit I've downloaded a few myself but I'm not about to offer my whole collection to the world because it seems it would only hurt the musician in the long run. I could care less about the 'industry', they're tyrants anyway with overbearing contracts, thinking they own the musician himself be it a band or artist or whatever.

I too travel in radio-less zones but I just bring my CD's with me because I've only been burning a short time and don't see a need for mp3's particularly. The majority of my burns are pics and back-ups and downloaded programs to save for when I reformat and things of the likes.

I wasn't pointing a finger at anyone in particular Hewitt, just borrowing the words. It just caught me off-balance with the wording and I felt a need to vent.

In the end, any service has to get paid, one way or another. So if you want internet radio, you'll just have to get used to commercials like the rest of us... big deal.



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I've got it made in the shade as long as the tree don't fall...

[sea69]

Metalla-who????


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[HewittC4]

Remember what the VP of the largest internet radio network said:

John Jeffrey, vice president of Live365 Inc., the largest internet radio network, said even the lower rate may kill the fledgling industry.

The internet radio I listen to already has ads, but it might disappear because the RIAA want to squeeze every last cent from anyone they can.

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It's a thankless job, but I have alot of Karma to burn off

[setoguro]

Just something that I realized after reading this is that I haven't bought any music since I quit using Napster. Napster got me listening to music again. For me it was sad to see them go. It seems that in order to make a nickel the record comp. will throw away a buck. Do they think all those pirated songs are lost sales? It looks good on paper but I'm not sure that It carries over to reality. Really the whole thing is about money nothing fair about it. If I can keep a new good band from being heard the less competition I have and the longer I'm going to stay on top. If the record comp. can squeeze a little extra cash out of internet radio their going to do it and any other place they can think of too. Its's business got nothing to do with fair or right or wrong.

[bassman]

Hey HewittC4,



What this means is that internet radio stations will have to pay the music industry for the privledge of promoting the music industry's products. Traditional radio broadcasts are exempt from paying the royalties.


Not sure where you got that info, but it is my understanding that radio stations do pay a per play royalty.

The music industry is a devious and sacred instatution. A lot like many others around us, but seen more because of it's place in our lives.
Internet radio brodcasts have a powerful benefit in this in that, they do not have DJs, they do not have to replace media, their equipment maintenance costs are a bit lower.

I suppose with a bit more research and free time I could write a whole artical on this http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif


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Waiting patiently for the future to arrive.

Frank's Place (http://dreamwater.net/tech/frankscomp/)

[This message has been edited by bassman (edited 06-23-2002).]

[YODA74]

If your going to right an artical make it on (the more money you make it seems like the stupider you get) http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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[Closed captioned for the thinking impaired.]

[HewittC4]

Where I got my information was from an Associated Press article released on 6/22/02. The fact that broadcast (traditional) radio doesn't pay royalties was in the article, but I also knew that from before I read the article. I used to know many people in the radio business from when I worked in advertising. The idea was the same as movie previews. Movie distribution companies don't pay for placement on previews before movies. The idea is that you see the preview and it makes you want to pay to see the movie. In Radio, you hear the song and it makes you want to buy the CD so you can hear the rest of the CD or listen to the songs you like whenever you want.

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It's a thankless job, but I have alot of Karma to burn off

[john5211]

There are two types of royalties in this situation.

One is a royalty that is paid to songwriters/publishers, and is usually set to be a percentage of revenue; this royalty is paid by both traditional and internet radio stations.

The second kind is a royalty that goes to the artist and label. Traditional radio stations are exempt from this royalty, while internet radio stations are not (according to the DMCA, a law passed in 1998 which has caused substantial controversy over other issues).

It is the second type of royalty that has been under debate and in the news lately. For more info, check out this article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20412-2002Jun20.html) from the Washigton Post.

John

[This message has been edited by john5211 (edited 06-23-2002).]

[Flick]

That's close, but the issue is bigger than you may think. Check out BMI and ASCAP:
http://www.bmi.com/about/backgrounder.asp
http://www.ascap.com/lp_about_ascap.html

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