Cheers for WalMart!

[mjc]

Walmart has taken a bold step...they are offering computers preloaded with an OS other than M$...they have for sale online PCs preloaded with Lindows (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product_listing.gsp?path=0%3A3944%3A3951%3A41937%3 A86796%3A96356&dept=3944&cat=96356&sb=61&bti=0) and ones without any OS (http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product_listing.gsp?path=0%3A3944%3A3951%3A41937%3 A86796%3A86798&dept=3944&cat=86798&sb=61&bti=0)

Probably not the highest grade machines around, but hey give them an A for trying.
------------------
mjc
Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.


Please Post Questions in the forums, not my email. Thanks

[This message has been edited by mjc (edited 06-25-2002).]

[sea69]

have you tried Lindows??

looks pretty cool.

gooooo walmart!

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif



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sea1_69@hotmail.com

winXP Recovery Console (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q314058)



homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/index.html)

[Druff]

would like to test it, but dont wanna buy that test-membership something about $99 , or so,
maybe I get it from a friend...

greetz Druff

[YODA74]

Can't be any worse than a Gateway, HP, or Compaq, Emachine With windows

Whats going on with the double sig ??

[Whyzman]

Yoda,

Sea's post was from 6/25...probably during the "tweaking" upgrade stages! ;)

[YODA74]

:D :D Shows you how much I pay attention

[setoguro]

This is the kind of stuff I like to see. I hope it takes off and does well for them. There needs to be some good compitition for Windows. :D Puts a smile on my face.

[Mark Miller]

I have a quick question. If lets say a new os system really rose to challenge ms, how would you guys feel about all the compatability issues that would arise? Computers should be like tv's or cars, they should just work. I have tried linux, and to tell you the truth I wasn't that impressed.


what is really needed is open source, that is my real problem with ms.
Mark

[yawningdog]

Whoa, not impressed with Linux!? Did you expect it to go to the bathroom for you? The only thing I haven't gotten it to do is run apps written for windows. (and why would I want to do that anyway?)
Surfing, e-mail, networking, development, highly virus resistant, all from within an attractive gui combined with bowling-ball stability.

You do realize that Linux is the open source of which you speak, don't you?

[mjc]

yawning....if you try hard enough it can run windows apps...I just ahven't bothered to play around enough to do it...;)

[yawningdog]

Right you are mjc. I'm in that same boat myself, not exactly unable, just disinclined.

[Paul Komski]

Computers should be like tv's or cars, they should just work

If it hadn't been for M$$$$$$$$$$$'s restrictive practices, all software would have been working even better than the first Model-T Ford!! ;) :D

[MichaelMHP]

I'm not trying to pick a fight- I'm really interested in Linux, but I would like to knom more about your opinions of the virus resistant qualities of the OS. I keep hearing about it, and that is one reason I am so intersted in it. (I'm getting the courage to build a dual boot system)

That said, how can any open source app as complex as an os be truly secure? I have heard it postulated that the reason that Linux is virus resistant is the same reason that Palm OS is- it is both a small target and an inconsequential conquer.

Every book I have read about "creative programming" has said that it is done for both the intellectual challenge as well as the ego factor- people hack (partially) because it is the toughest thing they can find for their advanced minds. Once they have found a solution that circumvents the security, they thrive on the notoriety of their success (albeit indirectly for self-preservation).

While a hassle, or damaging, or even dangerous, virii are simply published solutions to an unasked question- it is this reason why so many "popular" virii writers are tracked down. Kind of like s*x in public- not acceptable generally, but a thrill nonetheless. The threat of being caught serves to heighten the experience.

Based on that analysis (which I admit is an amalgam of my limited knowledge) linux is an inopportune target- it's audience is (at least for now) both small and highly specialized. You generally will not find it on grandma's machine, nor will you find it with the "vocal majority". Thus, little press, little thrill, small target.

I love the concept behind open source- it is the best of both worlds. Linux is viable both as a free (or GNU free) and a pay product and I personally think the only thing holding back more widespread adoption is fear of the general public to try something really new (as opposed to pseudo new with just added options or upcharging bug fixes).

However, once adoption becomes more widespread and it isn't a "techie" OS anymore the inevitable result will be more linux targeted virii. Wal-Mart should be both applauded as well as shunned- the success that this event promises could also be the genesis of a greater threat.

So, I'd like to hear the opinion of you, the experts. Do you feel that LInux is truly virus resistant or is it just small game?

[MichaelMHP]

I'd also like to mention that I have seen Lindows, and was impressed. I liked the look and feel, and $99 per year for hundreds of USEFUL applications is a steal at twice the price...

[YODA74]

Don't know a whole lot about Linux so I can't speak from experiance but While it's possible that someone could create a virus for linux I don't think it could ever be
widespread. While worms are possible, the Morris internet worm was a
pretty special case, and I doubt very much anything like it could work
today.
the Morris
Worm broke into a system by writing over the boundaries of
a fixed size buffer--a nice trick to get code into the memory
of a machine, but it requires a very skilled assembler programmer
with knowledge of the system under attack and is very
plattform speciffic. Most crackers today aren't brilliant
programmers, the just copy code from the net or use
virus-building kits. Mostly wanabes and script kiddies.
Not saying it can't be done But whats the point, there really isn't a whole lot out there that is a full proof protection.As cheap as parts for comps are now just build a new one.Or just have more than one on hand. Eventually seems computers(personal) are fairly new to the world someone will develope a way to stop all of that nonsense.Becouse the kids that i have seen come out of the schools and colleges don't even have a clue as to what real programming is.

If you can understand how compilers actually work then you could creat one heck of a virus for linux,But very few do. Just my 1/2 cent worth

[john5211]

Hi Michael,

A few thoughts:

(1) In addition to what YODA said, I think that there are a variety of reasons that Linux/UNIX does not seem to attract a lot of viruses. As you mentioned the target audience is small, in terms of the number of installed OSes (but on the other hand most mid-large scale companies implement some variety of UNIX, I think this would be a very atractive target...). Also, it's easier to write viruses for MS based code.

Put these together with the fact that Linux does things inherently more securely (with a meningful separation between the root/Administrator and user accounts) and you get more MS viruses. So I think the answer to your question might be a little of both; Linux is virus resestiant, but part of that resistance comes from its small size.

(2) I think several things keep Linux from becoming a true alternative to Windows. Most people see computers as a tool to do stuff and don't really want to know how/why things work the way they do; MS caters to this while Linux (for the most part) does not. There was an excellent article that I recently read, something like 'The 12 things Linux needs to do to be competitive with MS.' I can't find the link now, but if I do I will post it.

(3) Don't confuse Linux with Lindows. Lindows is an implentation/take off of a major Linux Distribution (Debian), but their are major differences, both good and bad (IMHO). (For example, Lindows eschews the security I mentioned above and just logs everyone in as the superuser/Administrator). Also, by the way, the vast majority of the software in the $99/year library is free anyway. You are essentially paying for the slick installer. To read a little more about Lindows, you might want to start here (http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=02/06/27/145200&mode=thread&tid=23).

John

[jabarnutcase]

Another short article on "Lindows" (http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/linux/story/0,24330,3394299,00.html) , just for whoever cares to check it out.

[iisbob]

...people hack (partially) because it is the toughest thing they can find for their advanced minds.


Hmmm, don't recall getting into " hacking " { or programming as it's called if it's legal because i have an " advanced " mind that couldn't be satisfied.

Besides my wife would highly disagree with the " advanced" part. :D


No, most " hackers ", true ones that is-aren't in programmming because they are bored, they do it because it is a challenge to take a mix of heretofor meaningless NO#'s & characters and make a literate creation.

Reverse engineering, or " cracking " as it's commonly called, is the way i learned to program-and is the way most programmers do.

As was mentioned above, most ( if not all ) of today's so called " hackers " are nothing more than kids who have a tool they found on the net, which they truely have no clue as to how to use or create, and they use it for mischief, like throwing a rock.

There was a virus written for linux awhile back, and one that specifically targeted Unix/Apache based servers; however it's because Windows is so highly visible and sloppy that it gets targeted so often.

In my Opinion Linux is already past the " techie " only stage, and as soon as the geneal software public realizes this and begins offering the software for both platforms, you'll start seeing more of a mix of OS's on the general market.

[Anubis]

I am totally turned off by Lindows frankly. Let me get this straight. I am supposed to pay 100 bucks for the right to download an OS that I have no clue if it is going to run all of my hardware? This is straight from their FAQ:

Question:
Which hardware is currently supported?

Answer:
LindowsOS already supports many of the most common hardware components and peripherals like: printers, scanners, digital cameras, game controllers, wireless networking, multiple CD-ROM/CD-RW/DVD drives, the functions on a wheel mouse, and many more. We're continually adding more and better support for additional devices as they become available.

They should list on their site exactly what they currently support at this time. Would really suck to download the OS, install it only to find my 3com PCI ADSL card isn't supported. There is no anti-virus utility available in click-n-run. I seriously hope they post tons more info when/if they do a general release, what they have now just won't cut it.

[Druff]

Time is money
so this means for me :

Linux is for rich peeps :cool:

greetz Druff


btw: did it, and hate it, a terrible LookAndFeel,
whatever u change, you simply get no good feeling, while using Linux.

Linux is like a Jeep, it goes its way, whatever comes,

but in fact we all like to drive in a Porsche,and get there faster!

[hiredgoonz]

Uhhh...ok...Linux, which is FREE, is for rich people?!? How do you figure that exactly?

For the everyday user who has no experience with Unix, I guess Windows is the way to go. And of course $300 for a new copy of XP Pro is certainly less expensive than what I pay for Mandrake ($0) :p

As far as compatibility goes...anybody out there have a working sound card when Windows 2000 was released? Anybody? What about scanners? Modems?

Yes, linux requires that you actually know something about a computer...learning that is too much to expect from most people...

[iisbob]

...anybody out there have a working sound card when Windows 2000 was released?

Ummm, Yep-my trusty ol' Soundblaster 16 PCI worked just peachy from the get go. Still using it in my home server with dual boot Suse/2k. Never could get the old Mustek scanner i had to work right tho-but it never worked right in 98' either. :p

...Linux is like a Jeep, it goes its way, whatever comes...

Hmmm, actually that should be Microsoft is like a Tank, it goes it's way, whatever comes...:D


Yes, linux requires that you actually know something about a computer...learning that is too much to expect from most people...

Don't wish me out of a job goonz!!!:p

[YODA74]

but in fact we all like to drive in a Porsche,and get there faster

I know your not comparing "Lindows" or Windows to a Porsche,
That would be more like a broken Volkswagon.


I still have a comp. with Linux 6.5 never had any problems with it. Except my own ignorance.But once you get the hang it's kind of fun.;)

[HeadachesAbound]

I have used Linux once. Installed Mandrake 8.x as a dual boot.

Number one issue was that the dual boot didn't work. It just didn't provide me with any options for booting. Solution was to create a LINUX boot disk and when I wanted LINUX I just booted with that.

Problem 2 was that you can't connect to AOL DSL via LINUX. I know AOL is almost as bad as M$ but they are the cheapest option in my area at this time. Still not a major issue, I just used LINUX to play around and get a feel for it, which I wouldn't have been able to do without the DSL connection.

Problem 3 was that when my wonderful M$ system failed I could no longer boot to LINUX and I couldn't get rid of the LINUX Partition Information. Solution was simply to run a Low Level Format on the HD that the LINUX System was installed on.

IMHO LINUX is a better operating system. It's more stable, secure, and reliable then M$.

When I get the money to build another machine I plan to put WinXP on one and LINUX on the other, then I can just use common networking to connect the LINUX to the web connection that the WinXP machine is running.

M$ is will most likely never produce an OS capable of providing a stable, secure, and reliable platform. They are too close-minded to realize that the M$ vision will never be accepted by the mass majority.

The computer wars are not over, they are just beginning. M$ is showing its age and will soon be dead unless they change the way the treat the general public.

LINUX (The car of the future. Guaranteed to get you where you want to go.)

M$ (The wagon revisited. Every time a wheel brakes, put on a flat tire.)