gowd dam system reboot

[eskimo]

my system has recently started rebooting all of a sudden since i installed a second Western Digital new hard drive. i installed it as a slave and formatted it and windows says its a dynamic drive, while my original one is a basic drive, but i dont think there's anything unusual about that is there? I also had to install 1 new program on the new hard drive cos it would'nt fit (15 GIG) on the old one. so normally every program is installed onto c:/program files but i have one other prog on the new hard drive, which i made x:/program files, could this have anything to do with my comp rebooting?
and ive had my comp for about 2 years and it never suddenly rebooted before like this, not once. before if something went wrong in a prog i was using (usually cubase) a window box would pop up and say ".....has encoutered a serious problem and needs to close" but now it does'nt say anything and just suddenly reboots, then when it loads up again it says "the system has recovered from a serious failure." i have already turned off SYSTEM REBOOT in the MY COMP / PROPERTIES / ADVANCED / START UP & RECOVERY / SYSYTEM FAILURE settings and it did'nt fix it. so im scratching my head trying to figure out what is making it do this, these are the times it will suddenly reboot:

when i rename or move a folder or file
when i save a file in a program
when i close a program
when i leave the screensaver running

...but it does'nt happen every single time i do one of these actions, only sometimes. Ive been searching similar posts on other forums, have'nt found any definitive answers yet, but i dont think its overclocking or not enough RAM cos sometimes i will have no progs or anything running and i just try and rename a file and it crashes and this can happen only after 1min of use so it cant be overheating issues either, also all power cables are fine and i have cleaned the dust from inside the comp last week. proly unlikey but could it maybe be the ATX power supply (400W) not having enough watts to power 2 hardrives? also ive tried setting one hard drive as master and other slave, then i tried one hard drive as master with slave present and other drive slave, which made no difference. also i found one program which im not sure about in ADMINISTRATIVE TOOLS / SYSTEM INFORMATION / STARTUP PROGRAMS and is called "NWERReboot." Is this normal or could this be causing it? So based on what ive said do you guys have any thoughts on what is making my comp reboot, aslo would you guys recommend doing a system restore? thanks for any help.

COMP SPECS: PC, WIN XP SP2, P4 R800 VM MOTHERBOARD, INTEL 3.0GHZ, 1024MB RAM, A9 550 GE GRAPHICS CARD, SB LIVE, M-AUDIO DELTA 44, (with no spyware / anti virus software installed; never hadi it connected to net)

[mjc]

Umm...what about power supply?

Size/specs....

[Sylvander]

Load and run Knoppix from a Knoppix Linux Live CD (http://www.knoppix.org/).
If that runs fine with no sign of the problem, then...
The hardware is not the cause [HDD's excluded].

p.s. Move all data off the original HDD [Primary Master with single "active" Primary Partition?] to the new HDD [Primary Slave with single "non-active" Primary Partition?]
This should make plenty of space so you can uninstall that new program and reinstall it [and any other new prog's] on C:
Surely 15 GB is plenty for Windows and Programs; I use only 4 GB of 5 GB C: for Win2000Pro.

DYNAMIC VOLUME OR DRIVE
[Read your help files on this]
Seems like you've made a RAID ARRAY with this 2nd drive. :(

"Dynamic Volumes include simple, spanned, striped, mirrored, and RAID-5.
You must create dynamic volumes on dynamic disks."

[Paul Komski]

A single drive made dynamic doesn't of its own transform it into a RAID but it does enable certain software RAIDs to be created in conjuction with other dynamic volumes created in the system. Personally I avoid them because the boot sectors and partition tables are moved and the drive becomes in that sense non-standard.

Sporadic reboots and error messages could well be heat or PSU related but can also be caused by file system or registry corruption or bad software or bad RAM.

I would run chkdsk /R from the command prompt and check the BIOS for temp or simply run the PC with its side off for a while and consider checking the HDD with its own diagnostic utility from its maker's website and a memtest.

[eskimo]

hey, i uninstalled the other prog on drive X:/ and that was'nt the problem becuase it is still rebooting. i dont think ive maid a RAID array (hope not) all i did when i bought the new HD was format it as a dynamic drive, no partitions, just simple. im going to try disconnecting the new hard drive today and see if it still reboots. but i dont think its bad ram or cpu temp etc cos it happened the same time as i installed the new hard drive. can i change the dynamic drive back to a basic drive? the only reason i made it dynamic in the first place was cos that was the only option i could find. also in my seraching for help i came across a usefull site for looking up file and finding out what they do, if there dangerous etc, here's the link www.file.net

[eskimo]

ive just been thinking that maybe it could be the ATX power suppply or PSU if that's what its called. a few months ago it started making a loud sound when booting up / first turned on but then after about 2 mins it would go and everything was fine, worked fine etc. so you think this sound could mean a dead PSU? but if the PSU was dead then would my computer still work properly? ive looked at the voltage outputs in the BIOS, which don tmean that much to me, so how do i tell if my PSU is dead and i need to buy a new one? i mena if it was dead the computer would'nt work at all would it?

[kiosk]

I think your PSU is running slightly overtaxed with a new drive, and it might have been on its way out anyway.

However, the loud sound from your PC is what's making me wonder - the CPU fan must have been spinning like crazy. Maybe the CPU heatsink wasn't making a good contact with the CPU core which was overheating, and you made the matters worse by shaking the system case when you installed a new drive and cleaned out the dust? Before buying a new power supply, remove the CPU heatsink, clean off everything with rubbing alcohol, apply new thermal compound and reassemble. See if the problem goes away.

[johnny_quest]

if the PSU was dead then would my computer still work properly?

the PSU supplies highly regulated, stable power. even a little fluctuation in load from saving a bid audio recording kicks your hard drive into full gear and will put the psu to the test, that delta44 has to power all the preamps as well

as it ages, it loses its ability to recover gracefully and will eventually fail.

a little variation will cause a spontaneous reboot, a total failure will leave you with a... computer that wont turn on.

[eskimo]

o.k. thanks for the replys guys. how safe is it to keep using it?,becasue it still works (besides the rebooting) but of course i dont want to explode the last 3 and a half years of making my music album away. i could never start again. but before i consider attempting to remove the CPU heatsink (whatever and wherever the hell it is) is there any way i can test the PSU. is there anything in the BIOS that can tell me, any system test i can perfrom? like if i decide to take it to a shop to get it repaired how do they tell if its wrecked or not?

p.s. its bloody hot at the mom where i live...Australia, up to 39 on friday, maybe the hot weather added to the PSU"S stress...

[Paul Komski]

can i change the dynamic drive back to a basic drive?
Note you will lose any data on the drive so backup first: How To Convert to Basic and Dynamic Disks in Windows XP Professional (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309044)

how safe is it to keep using it?,becasue it still worksReasonably safe but when electical components blow they can certainly take-out other hardware they are attached to. A cheap or poor quality or unreliable PSU (Power Supply Unit) is false economy putting both your hardware and software at risk.

like if i decide to take it to a shop to get it repairedReplaced rather than repaired - and that is usually a fairly easy DIY job on a Desktop PC; the bigger and less cramped the better.

but of course i dont want to explode the last 3 and a half years of making my music album awayA hard drive can go down AT ANY TIME from brand new to 10 years old. Dont live to learn this lesson the hard way and back-up your material onto removeable media. External storage on an external drive or onto DVDs is a pittance compared to the loss of the data itself or of the thousands it can take to recover data from failed drives.

[Sylvander]

On Paul's advice, I began using "SyncBack" [the FREE version].
I use it to backup [actually SYNCHRONISE] all of my DATA files.
I moved/keep all data files off C: onto D: E: F:

D:
Holds personal data files = "My Documents", OE emails for all identities, address book, Desktop, IE Favourites & Temporary Internet Files, Firefox Profile, "Acerose Password Vault" auto-backup of vault files.
Thunderbird's files will be added if I ever succeed in the transfer.

E:
Holds mainly music files.

F:
Holds Mainly image files and videos.

By separating the data files off from the Windows/program files, the data files can be synchronised, which takes much less time than imageing, and the "Destination" copies [of the "Source" files] can be right up-to-the-minute.
The "Differences" list displayed at each "Run" keeps me informed of changes taking place in the files.
e.g. Updates or deletions/additions in the source files.
I might notice that some files had been deleted that shouldn't be and decide to write them back from the destination copies.

Making image backups is [in my opinion] still essential for the Windows/Programs [C:] partition, and its also a good idea to still make image backups now and then of all the data partitions, even though synchronising those.

I synchronise my 1 GB D: [personal data] partition to a 1 GB Flash Drive [H:].
This could be useful in the future if I wanted to move between various PC's.

E: & F: partitions are synchronised to [a folder on a partition on] an external USB 2.0 IDE HDD.
This too could be useful in the future if I wanted to move between various PC's.

Image backups are made [of C: D: E: F:] to both an internal G: partition [in case restore from USB wouldn't work], and also a partition on the external USB HDD.

I think this covers me for various possible disasters.
e.g.
a. If the internal HDD became non-operational I could fit a new HDD and repartition, reformat and restore from the USB HDD.
b. If the external USB HDD failed, I'd lose all the backups/synchronisations, but still have the original "source" files.
Just realised in typing this that there are files on a partition on that external HDD that have no backup; must do something about that.
e.g.
c. Portable [Windows] programs that can be run externally [from a Windows installation].
d. Installation file sets.
e. Files for making bootable disks [CD's, floppies].
f. Manual backups of special files = Firefox Bookmarks, "Acerose Password Vault" vault files.
I'm taking no chances that these files might "jump back" at a restore and become out-of-date.

Hope this lot gives you some food for thought. :)

Many thanks Paul. :D :cool:

[kiosk]

but before i consider attempting to remove the CPU heatsink (whatever and wherever the hell it is)

...and...

p.s. its bloody hot at the mom where i live...Australia, up to 39 on friday, maybe the hot weather added to the PSU"S stress...

I think I outlined the problem with your crashing computer. :cool:

[eskimo]

hey just thought i would post that i fixed the rebooting problem, to see what was causing it click the link here http://www.northernsounds.com/forum/showthread.php?p=474932
if anybody here uses Gigastudio make sure you definantly look. cheers.

[Paul Komski]

Thanks for posting back and letting us know it was rogue software. On reflection we should have thought of suggesting safe mode or msconfig because they both would have helped to discrimiate between a hardware and a software problem.