Getting ready to put in T-Bird 1400

[joea64]

Well, all the tinkering and hammering at my system over the last two months has been prologue, so to speak. The main event is upcoming; I have swung a good deal on an AMD T-Bird 1.4Ghz CPU with fan/heatsink, and will be taking my system in tomorrow morning for the installation. I could probably do it myself, but I really think I need help with getting the heatsink clip on the Duron off so that I don't damage anything on the mainboard.

Basically, what I need is general advice on how to go about this so that the upgrade is successful. Two questions pop to mind right away;

1) I believe my system is currently set to 100mhz FSB (ECS K7VZA motherboard, jumperable to 100mhz or 133mhz FSB). I'm not sure at this point whether the T-Bird is a 200Mhz or 266Mhz variant. If it turns out to be a 266Mhz variant, do I _have_ to reset the jumpers, or will it work OK at 100 / 200 Mhz?

2) The proposed heatsink/fan combo has a thermal pad on it, and also comes with thermal grease. I know that many people don't think much of thermal pads, but I don't see a practical way to peel off the thing. Should I just use both thermal pad and grease?

3) What's the specified operating temperature of the T-Bird 1.4Ghz? My Duron 800 operates at anywhere from 109 to 116 degrees F, which is well below the specified operating temperature of 50 degrees C. Should I purchase another case fan at the same time? (I already have a new 300W power supply with fan, and a turbine exhaust fan is also installed in one of the expansion slots.)

Answers to these, as well as any other comments, will be much appreciated before 11 am tomorrow when I will be carting that box in for the switch. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

-Joe-

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Alternate email: joea64@yahoo.com

[mjc]

1. Yes you will have to reset the jumper to get the CPU to full speed.

2. No, do not use both, you can remove the thermal pad by scraping it off with something like a credit card, you don't want to use something metal to do it, also it may be a good idea to lap the heatsink also.

3. The temp limits should be about the same, so if you are running in that range you may need some extra case cooling, because the 1.4 will run a little hotter.

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mjc
Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

[YODA74]

you could always check out a couple of these tonight before you go there is one on processor installation
http://www.upgradingandrepairingpcs.com/videos/index.asp

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PUSH TO TEST. RELEASE TO DETONATE.
[Closed captioned for the thinking impaired.]

[joea64]

I was all ready to instruct the computer-store people to scrape off the thermal pad until I read _this_ (link to http://www.over-clock.co.uk/amdwarranty.shtml ):

(relevant extract quoted)

Overheating - the following is an extract from an e-mail from AMD Support Staff...

"AMD recommends the use of thermal pads only. The reason for this is that with thermal paste the so-called "pump out effect" can occur. This means that through the expansion and contraction of the die by getting warm and cold the thermal paste moves slowly from the centre of the die to the edges. After several hours or days the centre of the die isn't covered by the paste anymore, which causes the processor to overheat. Warranty isn't void because of the use of thermal paste but it is void if the processor is overheated."

(end quote)

So this, apparently, is the word straight from AMD. How is is that the MANUFACTURERS of the CPU are wrong and everyone who says not to use the thermal pad but use thermal paste/grease instead are right? I really am confused now. Please help me sort this out!!

-Joe-

Originally posted by mjc:
1. Yes you will have to reset the jumper to get the CPU to full speed.

2. No, do not use both, you can remove the thermal pad by scraping it off with something like a credit card, you don't want to use something metal to do it, also it may be a good idea to lap the heatsink also.

3. The temp limits should be about the same, so if you are running in that range you may need some extra case cooling, because the 1.4 will run a little hotter.





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Alternate email: joea64@yahoo.com

[mjc]

Several months ago I got the "AMD recommends thermal pads" straight from AMD, but the thing is the performance of the pad is below that of the the paste (in most cases). Also, a high quality thermal compound is not going to "creep" (I have seen some of the very high grade stuff labeled at over 400° before it would "creep", your processor would be toast long before that). AMD is not "wrong" they are just trying to minmize loss. So if you want to go strictly by the book, leave the pad alone, the key is don't try to use both, as that will cause problems.

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mjc
Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

[joea64]

Well then.......upon thinking about it, and given that that _is_ the book according to AMD, I'll probably just stick with the thermal pad (the heatsink/fan assembly _is_ AMD-certified, but I'll stop by Best Buy or someplace before I go down there, just in case; I believe they have Artec AMD-certified coolers there). I have no intention of overclocking the T-Bird or doing anything else drastic with it, and, come to think of it, I don't know for sure that my current CPU does use thermal grease instead of a thermal pad; I was there when the vendor put the assembly together and set it up on the board, but at this remove in time I just don't remember what all exactly he did. I'll thrash it out with the store personnel when I get down there. Maybe I can put in a second case fan in addition to the existing PS fan and turbine/exhaust fan, if that doesn't prove to be too much of a burden for my 300W PS.

-Joe-

Originally posted by mjc:
Several months ago I got the "AMD recommends thermal pads" straight from AMD, but the thing is the performance of the pad is below that of the the paste (in most cases). Also, a high quality thermal compound is not going to "creep" (I have seen some of the very high grade stuff labeled at over 400° before it would "creep", your processor would be toast long before that). AMD is not "wrong" they are just trying to minmize loss. So if you want to go strictly by the book, leave the pad alone, the key is don't try to use both, as that will cause problems.





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Alternate email: joea64@yahoo.com

[joea64]

It's done. I had the new T-Bird 1400 put in this morning. Installation was quite straightforward, especially with the store guy to help (he actually did the work of unfastening and refastening clips and maneuvering the heatsink/fan assembly, a Thermal Integration TI-V77, into place).

As it happens, my Duron _did_ use a thermal pad with the heatsink, as I saw when the CPU was removed, so I don't feel that bad now about continuing to use the thermal pad. After all, it's not as if I'm planning to overclock it - and I'm going to say something that will seem heretical to some people here, but I never saw the _point_ to overclocking, and I still don't, especially not when CPU's are so fast that the speediest ones will take years for the software to catch up with them.

Heat production isn't excessive so far. SiSoft Sandra reports CPU temperatures of 114 to 118 degrees F under load, which is way within the design tolerances for the T-Bird; the maximum safe temperature for the T-Bird, after all, is close to the boiling point. The powerful CPU fan helps, of course, as does the turbine/exhaust fan I also have installed. The system is noticeably noisier, though, and I can feel the fans working through my computer hutch. As I'm hard-of-hearing and live alone, though, I don't particularly care about the noise as long as the system stays reasonably cool.

Benchmarks on SiSoft Sandra's 2001 edition report the new CPU to be faster than anything else except the P4 1.6Ghz (of course, that was before the Athlon XP's and the newer P4's came out). The system is much faster now - but the really interesting thing is that my Internet connection (dial-up) is noticeably faster. Web pages load faster now, and downloads are perceptibly quicker. I suppose this is a function of the much larger cache and the greatly increased raw system speed.

-Joe-

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Alternate email: joea64@yahoo.com

[mjc]

Good deal......


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mjc
Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.