Try Tech Support First

[hiredgoonz]

I know when you're ^%$#*&$# off at your computer, the last thing you want to do is check out a poorly designed and difficult to use tech support site (assuming you can get it started at all and that the problem is not your internet connection) but the manufacturer of the hardware or software oftentimes has exactly the solution you need...

When you post a topic, there's only so far anyone on the board can go with standard troubleshooting and then, unless they've seen a similar problem, they're probably just guessing...The company that made the troublesome part or program, on the other hand, may see your problem ten or a hundred times a day and be in a far better position to understand it...

I have seen this happen on numerous occasions, just when I'm about to pull out my hair and ask for help, I check the M$ Knowledge Base on a lark and there is my answer...or when someone has a question for me, all I have to do is go to the company's website and more often than not, the solution for why the cdrom is spitting out toasted bread is right on their support page...

I only mention this because alot of the time it's faster to solve a problem this way on your own than to post and wait for an answer, if someone has one...

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When all else fails, read the instructions.

[tjaymadison]

True, so true. Excellent points. Good job, Hired! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

In addition, all the info you get is 'from the horse's mouth', so to speak,
rather than somebody else's interpretation and re-hash. And chances are
pretty good that you will learn or see something else during your search
that will come in handy.

Of course, you'll find lots of invaluable info right here in The PC Guide (http://www.pcguide.com/index.htm).

Many times a quick search at www.google.com (http://www.google.com)
will lead you in the right direction.

Here's some hints for searching the MSKB from a previous post:

================================================== ===========

For some reason, known only to MS wonks I guess, you can do it two ways:

1. Click here (http://search.microsoft.com/us/SearchMS25.asp).

Click the 'Clear All' button
Click the box for 'Support & the Knowledge Base'
Click the drop-down arrow by 'Using:' and select 'Exact Phrase'
Type whatever in the 'Search for:' box
Click the blue Search button
Behold the results

2. Click here (http://search.support.microsoft.com/kb/c.asp).

Select your OS, or any other MS product in fact, from the first drop-down list
Select 'Exact Phrase' from the second drop-down list
Type whatever in the 'My question is:' box
Click 'Go'

For reasons I can't explain, the results are sometimes slightly different.
Must have something to do with the '&' in #1, or MS quirks.
In any case, you can see what's there.

================================================== ==========

With those four sites added to your Favorites, you can go a long way
toward finding a lot of info to help solve problems.

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"I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
-- Charles Babbage, mathematician, computer pioneer, analytical engine designer (1791-1871)
-- (Question: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?')

"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand."
-- Homer Simpson

[This message has been edited by tjaymadison (edited 06-04-2001).]

[hiredgoonz]

Thanks tjay...my reason for writing was the number of posts I've seen where the reply was "check tech support" or "check the M$KB" or even people posting links to information in either...it would certainly be faster for the individual having the problem to find the article his/herself than to post and wait for someone else to find it and then reply...

And you're right about learning other stuff...just wading through search results at M$KB can get you some collateral learning...

Another bonus to getting info from a company's support site is that if you do have to talk to tech support on the phone, and you've used their website already, they'll be much happier to help you...it's always nice to see someone has tried to help themself and may speed troubleshooting the problem...

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When all else fails, read the instructions.

[kayofcircles]

Agree almost completely, BUT there may be those who, like me, haven't any real tech support to access in the beginning. Bought my puter from a small shop in ABQ..it says "AMD K6" on the front and has 98 OEM. Back when I first got it, was having a lot of problems and spent hours reading through MS's FAQs..didn't help. If they had a search database option back in late 99, I never found it. (Did find the Ask ? (can't remember name)...useless.)

TJay taught me how to search MS database. (The post above!) Never heard of google before coming here. Nor motherboard homeworld, nor a number of other sites all of you have shown me recently.

I stumbled into here with an RW problem. I had already searched through all of the website, and called tech support twice. The tech support people never even asked me if I had done any of the things suggested on their website but they finally said that I would never get the RW to work until I upgraded my chipset drivers...which turned out to be untrue. It's working now...thanks to you guys.

Maybe you guys should compose some kind of FAQ page, or a list of links..like the one TJay posted above. ?? Don't know, but I for one am grateful that you all helped me.

hired: I would point to your sig.."When ALL else fails" http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life.
-- Chinese proverb

[LeeV]

Hello all,

Kayofcicles I second your comment. The ironic thing is I was off searching for the quote you used in your signature. I knew I'd seen some one using it here, and it was you. I go to post my reply and you beat me here!

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life.
-- Chinese proverb

How I think that applies to this situation is... sometimes pointing people towards the information they seek is better than just handing it to them. So, when you know that certain obvious problems can be solved by going directly to the FAQ section of some manufactures web site, don't hesitate to tell them!

Now how many of you have set your car keys down somewhere on your desk, but when it's time to take the kiddies to school you can't find them! You've looked everywhere, and you're about lose your mind, then your kid walks right to the desk and picks them up! Dealing with computers can be like that, the problem has you so frustrated you don't see the answers that sometimes are right in front of you. You need that extra set of eyes, or brain whatever the case may be.

REID was my hero when I first stopped in, he found information on MSI Germany site that I never thought to look at, after all I'm in the US. He also gave me a few pointers on how to search the web better.

The only time I get frustrated with posters is the ones who get mad when you give them the knowledge to help themselves. You know the type "just tell me how to fix the @#$&*## thing"

Some people just are not aware of the help that is available to them out there, and if we don't want to tell them, maybe they will be one of those people who think this site stinks. I've seen a lot of names come and go on this site, and I see people helping others that didn't have a clue on their first post. They got better because of people like you, and have made this community a good place to be.

Lee V

[This message has been edited by LeeV (edited 06-04-2001).]

[hiredgoonz]

Wow, I'm glad I didn't go with my first draft of my letter since I wrote it when I was frustrated at having seen the 5th "click on this link cause I did all your research for you" reply...

But I didn't want to offend anyone, so I composed what I thought was a more helpful post rather than one to vent. It seems I may have still stepped on some toes, so let me clarify:

My letter was in no way directed at the majority of users, it seems that most people here try to help themselves which I think is great...hey, I don't know everything either and I post questions when I can't find an answer or when the answer is unlikely to be documented and will only be had from experienced users...

I had just seen a lot of posts that reminded me of a letter in Time's recent ON Magazine where they explained that when asking a "techie" for help, be specific, tell what you tried and don't say things like "the thingy does this weird thing" cause it gets the point across that: "I'm too cool to understand this, but you're a geek, so you'll know"

So, I apologize if I offended anyone, but my point is, I think, a valid one...you'll better help yourself by helping yourself...if you can't find an answer I certainly am not trying to discourage you from posting, but I still say that alot of questions are better answered by tech support, or some of the references available at this site...

And just as a final question: "don't you prefer to help someone when they've tried to help themself already?" I know I do, it's nice having a direction to go with troubleshooting suggestions so that I don't have to start at "is it plugged in?"

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When all else fails, read the instructions.

[Paleo Pete]

Guess this one stirred up some tempers...

Sometimes we do get frustrated, and yes it seems sometimes that people would be better off trying tech support first, and whenever I find out we're trying to deal with a computer that's still under warranty that's all I will tell them, since anything we do could void their warranty.

On the other hand, many of the people who show up here have no idea where to look for the info they need. As kay has pointed out, she was the same as many of our new visitors, had no idea about some of the good tech sites out there, and that's half of what we do here...showing people where to look. I always try to post links when I can instead of an actual answer, so people will have to look it up, rather than handing it to them on a platter...

FAQ...I've been working on that a bit, we have a FAQ section in the forums, but I've moved very few topics there so far, it takes quite q bit of reading to find the better ones, and with solutions, so it's going kinda slow...

Links...My signature and mjc's both have links to our sites, and mine will be growing again soon, I'm checking out some more sites to put on it. Many of the sites we post as links here also have good link lists. Trish's Escape From Hardware Hell is one of my most often recommended sites, incredible links page, so many she had to put them in categories...

Just try to have patience folks, I know it gets frustrating, but often people come here because they don't have a clue where to start...and once they find us, all we can do is keep being the best on the net. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


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So many idiots, and only six bullets...
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[hiredgoonz]

That's the thing, I wasn't trying to stir up anybody's temper and like I said, my post was not directed at the majority of people here, just the lazy ones who don't look for an answer not because they don't know where to look, but because they'd rather have somebody else do it for them...

And as far as my first post, I'm kind of surprised that it upset people, I wrote it completely from a trying to help perspective, not a frustrated one and the goal I tried to attain by the post was to give some starting points for finding answers, it's amazing how many problems can be resolved with just google and the M$KB...

I stand by my post...the people most qualified to solve your problems are tech support from the company you got your computer/part/software from, failing that, the answer is probably out there somewhere and you can look for it yourself, post a question, or whatever, but alot of things that would be simple for tech support to fix are hard for someone else (no one is familiar with every piece of hardware and software) to diagnose...

I'm sure I'll get people saying that tech support didn't help them or was rude...well, sometimes you get someone who is good at their job and sometimes you don't, but to overlook the most obvious source of help is foolish, that's what they're there for...

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When all else fails, read the instructions.

[Ghost_Hacker]

It didn't look to me as if anyone took offense ... It is always best to look for answers from tech support first.

But.... I would say that a lot of the folks are helping themselves by coming to the PC guild. It's only once their here that they discover the forums and mabey post a question or two. Which would explain why alot of them never seem to come back or at least bother to post the final outcome.


Anyway just my 2cents http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Comment heard from a Klingon programmer.

"Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!"

[This message has been edited by Ghost_Hacker (edited 06-05-2001).]

[LeeV]

Hey everyone,

Ghost is right, no offense was taken. I understand hiredgoonz point, and believe he was trying help by informing people of the obvious places to start their search. I realized his frustration, and agree that some people are just lazy and expect you to do their research. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif

Maybe, I was afraid it would scare someone from posting a question, or worse yet thought it was a sign of another valuable person thinking of leaving this forum. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif

I wanted to tell him that a lot of us started out not having a clue, and the patience and hard work of the people here paid off. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif If nothing else I learn from seeing where the people posting answers, found them.

Long live the PC Guide forums!
Lee V

[This message has been edited by LeeV (edited 06-06-2001).]

[tjaymadison]

Hired, for what it's worth, I think your original post needed to be said.
In re-reading it more than once, I still can find nothing to cause anyone to take offense.

Personally, I have learned so much by clicking on the links provided by
the 'old hands' and just adding them to my Favorites folder for that
rainy day that happens to all of us eventually.

While I value the info and help that people give in their own words,
when I also see a reference to the Guide or other sources, it just
reinforces the confidence I feel about the person who's helping.

If you really stop and think about it, most problems posted on any forum
aren't that new, and although it may be the first time it's happened to you,
chances are high that it's already been solved somewhere else before this.

------------------
"I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
-- Charles Babbage, mathematician, computer pioneer, analytical engine designer (1791-1871)
-- (Question: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?')

"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand."
-- Homer Simpson

[This message has been edited by tjaymadison (edited 06-06-2001).]

[kayofcircles]

Just for the record, hired, I was not offended either. Was just remembering my frustrated early days with puter. Also, my husband said recently that considering how little he knew when he built his puter, it's a miracle it worked! It did work, so we will never know whether or not the company that sold him all the parts would have helped him then, but it's out of warranty now.

I had just read a post where the guy was apologetic for asking a question, so it's possible that my post here was colored some by that. Think was Pete who said there are no "stupid" questions...not if you need the answer.





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Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life.
-- Chinese proverb

[hiredgoonz]

Ok, just so nobody took offense I wanted to clarify my intention and believe me, I remember my frustrations with computers early in the game (I still keep a hammer in my computer toolkit)...I remember well the days when I knew NOTHING and I like to be able to assist others as long as I'm not wasting my time with someone who has no interest in learning how to solve their own problems...

I tried to be helpful while getting across a point which is pretty much the sentiment in kay's sig...and I definitely don't want to discourage anyone from posting, this site offers a great resource and the people who dedicate their free time to answer posts have been a huge help to me and many others...

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When all else fails, read the instructions.

[buck52]

Hi All

Just wanted to put my 2¢ in
I have only owned a computer for 1½ years but have learned a great deal from asking
some questions and reading lots.Everyone here usually gives great answers or provides
great links. I will also say that I have learned a lot and received mostly good help
about my crummy little HP from the HP tech support site.
I have heard this here before and it is true for me. I learn it better if I do a little
digging myself.

Then ask the guru's here http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

buck

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just hav'n fun