Survey on pop ads - just how annoying do you find them?

[ixl]

I am sure that you have all probably noticed that many sites have moved to the use of "pop" ads that spawn a new window with an ad in it. I personally hate them and have therefore concluded that others hate them just as much.

When I originally started this site, I refused to put animated banners on it because I hated those too. Unfortunately, the market became such that without accepting animation, I couldn't get any ads at all. So I gave in on that. Then came Java ads and HTML ads. They didn't seem much worse than GIFs so I accepted them too.

I have basically drawn a line in the sand with pop ads--I won't put them on the site. As a result, I am leaving a chunk of ad dollars on the table, because everyone seems to want to go in this direction. I refuse to do anything that will make people want to actively leave the site unless I am forced into it, and things aren't quite that bad yet.

But I just wanted to confirm my suspicions: do people find pop-up ads as annoying as I do? Is it something that might make you leave the site?

How about the "pop-under" ads, which spawn a new window but then toss the new window to the background. Are they any less irritating than the ones that put the new window on top?

Thanks for your feedback.

------------------
Charles M. Kozierok
Webslave, The PC Guide (http://www.PCGuide.com)
Comprehensive PC Reference, Troubleshooting, Optimization and Buyer's Guides...
Note: Please reply to my forum postings here on the forums. Thanks.

[kayofcircles]

I too loathe the pop ups...I try to close them as soon as they appear. Do prefer the pop "up" to "under" because is easier to close it pronto. In my case, I am already fighting a weak and slow ISP connection, and it certainly seems to me that the pop ups make it even more difficult to stay connected. So, Sir, I would reluctantly have to say that if pop ups started here, I would not be coming by as often.

Hate to say that because I read the post about ads and paying for your site. Didn't have a very good understanding on how this sort of thing is done before. I did make an "intention" to click on ads here, but so far have forgotten to do so. But I will, and I have a request. If I promise to click on at least one ad per visit, could we not ever do the pop ads? I do love this site and am learning a lot from it.

If there is another way any of us can "help"...holler. PBS takes donations...do you?

------------------
Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life.
-- Chinese proverb

[This message has been edited by kayofcircles (edited 06-20-2001).]

[mjc]

Pop-ups--hate 'em...but I know what your going through, it seems that fortunecities has been adding more pop-ups to their free sites in order to keep them going.

My opinion is that the more the advertisers complain about not seeing enough "clicks" the more obnoxious they make the ads and the less people want to see them.....

------------------
mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/highrise/11/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

[ixl]

My personal opinion is that pop ads are self-defeating and stupid. I am very bad at marketing (witness this site http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif ) but I know human nature. I personally will view and even click through a banner ad if it is of relevance to me. Pop ads waste my time and resources while they load. I close them on sight. Pop-under ads annoy me even more because they are hard to close. A banner ad may be a bit of an annoyance but at least it doesn't keep me from what I am trying to do.

I don't see how these pop ads help anyone and would not be surprised if they faded away eventually.

As for the site, I will only put pop ads on the site if it comes down to either doing that or taking the site offline. We're not close to that at this point.

Thanks, and more responses welcomed.

------------------
Charles M. Kozierok
Webslave, The PC Guide (http://www.PCGuide.com)
Comprehensive PC Reference, Troubleshooting, Optimization and Buyer's Guides...
Note: Please reply to my forum postings here on the forums. Thanks.

[uncle_bent]

I also have a fairly passionate hatred for pop-ups. They won't make me give up a site I really like (and I really like this one), but I applaud your reluctance to use them. Thanks for the tip on stopping the animated GIFs with the stop button. I had never realized that and I use it often now. I've often thought that certain resellers would benefit greatly by having ordinary ad banners on your site. Have you approached some of the better ones? Would it help if people here were to suggest this site for sponsorship?

[jinn]

I hate pop-ups and never even look at them. Can't close them fast enough. I won't ever visit a site again if I get too many of them. But, knowing that you even had the class to ask us on our opinion of them and stated that you don't like them either, I would put up with them. I even click on some adds in here to try to help out. The fact that you care so much what people think, overshadows any irritating pop-ups IMO.

[Steve]

Ixl...please, just tell me what I can do. Pop-ups are VERY annoying. I'll do just about anything to not have them on this site. I probably wouldn't stop visiting the site, I need to go somewhere to learn, but the whole experience would be, shall we say, less.

[Reid]

I saw good reviews on the Proxomitron (http://www.computerstuff.net/prox/) filter (free). It looks like it should take care of some of the web annoyances.

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reido@my-deja.com

Friends don't let friends install Windows ME

[bassvax]

I think pop-ups are just too intrusive...I don't mind ads on a site unless they of the irritating type like it seems Excite has gone to where they flash fast and constant in the middle of the page. I suppose the whole mentality behind the annoying ads is that they will stick with the consumer...and boy are they right...I remember them when I'm shopping...they're on my "don't buy there" or "don't want anything to do with them" lists. How are folks gonna know about the services and products offered without ads? I like the way German television did it...the program was un-interrupted and you could watch the ads all at once afterwards. Of course, bathroom and kitchen breaks fit in well there, but if a consumer has an interest in what's out there they can choose to watch those ads. OK getting off the central issue here...I don't mind ads on the site and even a couple on each page won't hurt me...but, the pop-ups...get a no vote here as well. Unless, as you said, it gets to that point...I won't be leaving the PC Guide over pop-ups http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

And I want to thank you as well for you concern regarding "the people's" thoughts on the topic.

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Tango down!

[Reid]

Sorry, I did not answer your question. No, I don't like pop-up ads, but they have not kept me away from sites that I otherwise like to visit.

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reido@my-deja.com

Friends don't let friends install Windows ME

[sea69]

I would still come here no matter what depths we had to sink to...lol

My sentiments go hand in hand with all the other for the most part... but I have a fast connection and am used to these pop ups from other sites/boards.. (even the ones I mod)

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif


------------------
sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)

;)~

[Paleo Pete]

I have to agree with everyone else, I despise pop up ads almost as much as spam...under no circumstances would I leave this site if you were to begin using them. But I do hope it doesn't come to that.

Pop-unders are even worse, for reasons already stated. I keep a local weather page as my start page, and have been using Intellicast for a long time. I just changed it today because they have been using a pop-under, and several times recently including today I've had to use the 3 finger salute to shut it down when it stopped responding before it loaded. That means I have to open the browser again because it shuts down all open pages. I now use Accuweather (http://www.accuweather.com) as my start page.

I think you are absolutely right, especially after seeing the responses here, that pop ups are generally considered annoying. I usually avoid sites that use them, and am seriously considering moving my site to a different provider due to the geocities pop up, but haven't so far because it's not nearly as large and intrusive as most. And it stays on top...

------------------
So many idiots, and only six bullets...
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[AwARe]

I would say that if there is ever any problem getting people to click ads

well heres what I would do......

I tried to click as many ads the other night on this site as I could find, but to tell ya the truth I didnt really find all that many, or at least it sure didnt seem like many to "me".

I would suggest that at the top of this web page where it prominantly says The PC GUIDE.......put "1" small ad there "that pays pretty good" and rotate them......put a small msg under it that says, please if you like this site click this once everytime you come here, and then maybe add a link under, that explains "why" you need people to click the ads....maybe something that says, "I need your help, please read this"

I bet if it was a simple matter of clicking a very "easy to find" ad on this site, that everyone "knew you were benefitting from" youd get alot of help and clicks...........Id also every once in a while make a post like this one that "reminds everyone to do it"..........

To the question.........pop-up ads are "Really" annoying which I think has already been said pretty plainly..............

------------------
----------------
What I meant by what I said is hopefully less confusing then the contemplation of the question that led to the confusion in the 1st place.......

[CM]

Hi, yes, I totally hate pop-up ads and make a point of never reading them. There are a couple of sites I avoid due to the use of pop-up's but those are sites I'm not especially interested in, it would have to get pretty bad before I started avoiding this one. It makes a difference as well now that I know that you're under pressure to use them to keep the site going, that makes it worth tolerating them but I'm still not going to read them, much less click on them!

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--
Cody Morgan

[ixl]

Originally posted by uncle_bent:
I also have a fairly passionate hatred for pop-ups. They won't make me give up a site I really like (and I really like this one), but I applaud your reluctance to use them. Thanks for the tip on stopping the animated GIFs with the stop button. I had never realized that and I use it often now.
My pleasure.
I've often thought that certain resellers would benefit greatly by having ordinary ad banners on your site. Have you approached some of the better ones? Would it help if people here were to suggest this site for sponsorship?
The entire Internet advertising industry has gone down the crapper, so to speak. Marketing was never my forte, but right now there's little that can be done. I have a company trying actively to sell ad space and they have come up with nothing in quite a while. Most companies that sell product are not receptive to "cold calls" from webmasters, and most have bought into the myth that if you don't get direct sales from ad banners, that they don't provide you with benefit. As I have said all along, how many click throughs do companies get from magazine ads?

PS Thanks Jinn, and the others, for your loyalty and support.

------------------
Charles M. Kozierok
Webslave, The PC Guide (http://www.PCGuide.com)
Comprehensive PC Reference, Troubleshooting, Optimization and Buyer's Guides...
Note: Please reply to my forum postings here on the forums. Thanks.

[ixl]

I tried to click as many ads the other night on this site as I could find, but to tell ya the truth I didnt really find all that many, or at least it sure didnt seem like many to "me".

Because a good percentage of the inventory of the site is unsold. That's why you see "PC Guide" banners.

I would suggest that at the top of this web page where it prominantly says The PC GUIDE.......put "1" small ad there "that pays pretty good" and rotate them......

Laugh. If I had the ability to put in small ads (or even large ones) that pay pretty good I would. They ain't bangin' down ma door. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

I bet if it was a simple matter of clicking a very "easy to find" ad on this site, that everyone "knew you were benefitting from" youd get alot of help and clicks...........Id also every once in a while make a post like this one that "reminds everyone to do it"..........


Well, there are two (basic) types of ads. CPM ads pay per impression, regardless of clicking; CPC ads pay per click. In a nutshell, CPC ads stink, and I won't use them any more because I have never once had one that turned out to be worthwhile. Even with begging people to click on them, they don't fare well, and if I am being paid per click, it would be unethical for me to tell people to click the ads when they have no interest in them, just to make the site money. I'm sure you understand.

Thanks for the suggestions.

------------------
Charles M. Kozierok
Webslave, The PC Guide (http://www.PCGuide.com)
Comprehensive PC Reference, Troubleshooting, Optimization and Buyer's Guides...
Note: Please reply to my forum postings here on the forums. Thanks.

[ixl]

Ironically, on the very day that I posted this topic here, my good friend Eugene Ra started running pop ads on the excellent Storage Review (http://www.storagereview.com) site that features The PC Guide's hard disk reference material. As I said earlier, I would run popup ads if it got down to that or shutting the site down. SR was closer to that point than I am at present. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif

If you are interested in more perspective on what others think of pop ads and how they affect free sites, check out the SR forums (http://www.storagereview.com/jive/sr/), and in particular, this thread (http://www.storagereview.com/jive/sr/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=13882) and this one (http://www.storagereview.com/jive/sr/thread.jsp?forum=1&thread=13947). And if you can, support SR as well, especially if you are interested in storage reviews. They're the best.

------------------
Charles M. Kozierok
Webslave, The PC Guide (http://www.PCGuide.com)
Comprehensive PC Reference, Troubleshooting, Optimization and Buyer's Guides...
Note: Please reply to my forum postings here on the forums. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by ixl (edited 06-21-2001).]

[CWelker73]

death to popup ads!! it definitley keeps me from coming back to sites, however it is becoming unaviodable, which stinks http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/mad.gif

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Allright brain, I dont like you and you dont like me, so lets get this over with and get back to killing you with beer. -Homer Simpson

[B. Kenny]

I don't like pop-up adds but they wouldn't deter me from visiting this site. I have a fast connection so they are but an annoyance. This site generated my interest in learning computer technology, been a visitor since '98. I think this was the first tech oriented site I visited. The ads that are displayed here are relevant to the site content, and I click them just to learn about what the various vendors have to offer. There's no getting away from advertising in this market driven world we live in. Charles, if it comes down to having to go that route, one must do what one can in order to survive. Hopefully it won't, but if it does, c'est la vie.

Hey, Paleo Pete. You're a musician, I'm a musician, any other's out there a player? Maybe we could have an on-line benefit and get people to pay a modest cover charge. I'm sure there's enough Knowledge floating about that it could be done. Just a thought. I'd hate to see this place go the way of the Great Auk.

B.Kenny

[Ghost_Hacker]

I don't mind them so much. They've been around so long that I've gotten use to them. Plus I'm fast on the "click". http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

------------------
Comment heard from a Klingon programmer.

"Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!"

[AwARe]

............

well I dunno ixl,

just post what I can do to help and Ill do it http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif heh

that is unless it has to do with performing sex acts on animals or anything along those lines http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

also let me add that I went to read that thread you put the link to earlier, and the "pop-under" I recieved, I didnt even notice it until after I left the site........so my opinion on that one is whatever I wouldnt really care, and if it made you money go for it!........

the facts of the matter are pretty simple anyways...Im sure everyone appreciates that you even care how the members feel but in the end its your site do what you need to and Im sure most will stay despite whatever ads you put up.......just do us a favor and try not to make them "too" annoying http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by AwARe (edited 06-21-2001).]

[yawningdog]

Hey IXL. If revenue is an issue (I feel your pain) why don't you consider some options. I personally bristle when someone asks me for a "donation", but I wouldn't mind having a "PC Guide geeks guild" coffee cup, t-shirt, or ballcap.

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He thrusts his fists against the posts but still insists he sees the ghosts.

[tjaymadison]

Although pop-up ads annoy me greatly, it would take a lot more than that to keep your many fans away.

After a lot of searching, and trial and error, I have found no better forum site on the net.

From what I can gather from your posts and the general tenor of The PC Guide, Charles,
you are a real exception to the rule in your dealings with members and the philosophy behind this site.

As an example, visit PC911. The difference is like night and day, but they do something worth considering.
They accept contributions from members, through Amazon, PayPal and of course check or money order.
They are able to cover server/hosting costs of $400 per month this way. With 1375 registered members!
That's 30 cents monthly per member, or about $3.50 per year.

Granted not all registered members are that active, and I'm not suggesting that anyone should feel
that any kind of payment is necessary to get help. But if the costs here are comparable,
it would only take 250 people contributing $20 annually, or 400 at $12, to cover 'the nut'.
That's two movie tickets and maybe one medium popcorn here. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

If this seems to be a viable option, I'm sure a simple yes/no anonymous survey would reveal
just how many people would be happy to participate in keeping this resource going strong.

If you do consider something like this, I'd offer one suggestion:

There should be NO visible indication that a person contributes.

This seems to be counterproductive to the whole user-helping-user notion, and is sometimes
misused to validate or rank the 'worth' of a particular member.



------------------
"I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
-- Charles Babbage, mathematician, computer pioneer, analytical engine designer (1791-1871)
-- (Question: 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?')

"Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand."
-- Homer Simpson

[kayofcircles]

Yes! Like TJay's suggestion. Don't know how complicated that might get for you to do, but I would be most happy to contribute. Also want that T-shirt yawningdog mentioned. Mine should modestly say: "PC Guide want to be geek". http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

On my local news last night, they said that one can follow the pop ups to the source and somewhere there should be a "disable" feature for their own pop up ads. Haven't had the need to check that out yet.

[This message has been edited by kayofcircles (edited 06-27-2001).]

[CM]

Yes, I really like the suggestion for T-shirts etc and also donations, tho' whether the administration of those things would be cost effective next to offering advertising space I don't know.

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--
Cody Morgan

[Paleo Pete]

I want my T-shirt to say HUH?! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

I like the idea it sounds good, and not many websites so far have T-shirts. Might just be the start of a new craze...next thing you know every site out there will be offering them. T-shirts, coffee mugs, baseball caps, jackets, beach towels, frisbees, insulated cups, mouse pads, pace cars, space shuttles...OK, mouse pads are nothing new to the computer world, a local ISP has been producing them for 3 or 4 years...

I know, PC Guide World!...put it down the street from Disneyland, charge half a month's salary to get in and have XT's on display, rides with names like Mega Blaster v 2.2, a crew to put on bumper stickers in the parking lot... http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Just havin' fun, but I do like the T-shirt idea, might be worth checking into.

------------------
So many idiots, and only six bullets...
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[mjc]

I kind of like the T-shirt idea...I've seen some of the OCing site that have them, but very few others.

You even have the makings of a basic shirt already...the grey background, looks kind of like a grey t-shirt to me, th PC Guide logo, goes great on that background, simple color scheme in the logo, fairly easy to duplicate...

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mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/highrise/11/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

[iisbob]

I'll have to go with the majority here and say that even if you had to resort to " popups " i would still come back-just too much of a good thing to lose! Besides, creating anti-popup programs is helping my programming skills to no end http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ( necessity is the mother of invention http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif ). Having a fast connection, it can get extremely annoying to have multiple pop-ups when i go to a site; however it's not much different than viewing TV, you have to put up with their " pop-ups ". As far as you offering merchandise for sell; What a great idea! I would love to have a T-shirt from here-on mine it could say-" All my base are Yours!" http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif {gives you a clue as to how good i game sometimes http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif }

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iisbob
"Soap and education are not as sudden as a massacre, but they are more deadly in the long run."

[This message has been edited by iisbob (edited 07-01-2001).]

[kenja]

I can tolerate Pop Up/ Pop Under ads on an individual basis, but not when you get a string of a dozen or so like on "free sample" porn sites. (Not that I've seen them, I've only heard about them.) http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

[Rick]

Ad's of any kind are a sore spot with me.
I Hate all of them.( Almost as much as Telemarketer's)
I Don't read them, I won't click them and If I CAN, I block ad site servers.
I have even given up a Mod position because of them. ( 5 AD's per page )

That being said.
I know they are a necessary evil.
I tolerate them from sites I like and will continue to use those sites regardless of the AD's
Popup ads are Just 2 clicks away from being closed.


I like the Idea of a T-shirt also. XX-Large for me http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif
Or another Cap to add to my collection.

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To ERR is HUMAN
To REALLY screw things UP, YOU NEED a COMPUTER !

[psabi]

Yeah, the pop up and pop under crap is annoying but I'll deal with it if you have to go that route on this site. I enjoy the site too much, try and help a little, learn ALOT, and often enjoy the humor that enevitably makes its way into the posts.

I did get damn sick of the x10 camera crap so I added a little line to my hosts file. No more x10 pop ups, pop unders, or pop sideways...

[BigBlue66]

Hey Howdy,

All I have to say on the matter is this; Do whatever it is that you have to do, Charles, to keep the site up and running. I will help out any way I can.

Cheers,

Big Blue 66


------------------
Woe is me.

[Samantha]

Of course most people find pop ups annoying, but oddly, they also get better results. To my shock, Yahoo is now popping up ads on some of its pages. The new thing in ads are the interstitial ads, like those populating cNet. Those ads have the ability to track user interaction (yes, I know it's weird) and are being well received by the advertisers. But, they aren't easy to deploy, and impossible in a forum.

You may not like marketing, Charles, but its a different Internet now, and marketing has to be part of the job of any webmaster, especially the independent webmaster. Do you have a newsletter? Good way to drive traffic and ads can be sold for them. And, I hate to say it, but you also might consider some opt-in campaigns.

You might also consider the "tipping" concept that many independent sites providing services are discussing. This is variation on asking for donations, of course, but is pitched differently. How much is the "service" that someone received worth to them? How much time was saved? Leave an appropriate tip for the service. I don't know how well it is working, but we're going to try it on an independent software support site with which I'm involved. I think it may get at some of the infrequent visitors who come by just to ask a question.

How about some PC Guide goods - T-shirts, mugs, whatever. There are companies out there that will take care of fulfillment for you. I think you might need a cooler logo, though. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

Affiliate sales? Another anathema to many independent sites, concerned about the influence of relationships with vendors. But, your site is largely vendor neutral.

You might take a look at www.sitepoint.com, (http://www.sitepoint.com,) if you're not familiar with it. They have sponsors for sections of their forums. Interesting idea. They also sell ads in packages - one for the main site, one for the forums which appear at the top of the forum pages, one for the newsletter, and a fourth that I don't recall now. Their traffic is very high, but perhaps there are some ideas here.

I see from another post in the announcements that you're planning to make some changes in the forums. I couldn't find the original post about it, but I suggest that you take a look at vBulletin 2. It's a PHP/MySQL script. CPU intensive, but easier on bandwidth. It's more easily customizable for marketing purposes than UBB.

Mostly, though, I think you need to update critical parts of the Guide. Someone looking for information on the latest chipsets isn't going to visit the Guide these days. It has to hurt traffic and traffic is still important. From what I know - which isn't much - forums never pay for themselves, but are a nice amenity for building a loyal customer base.

We may all wish that sites like PC Guide could be magically supported with no visible means of support. Some people seem to think they can, but they generally have no idea how much work is involved in maintaining a quality, independent site, where the webmaster has to be a jack-of-all-trades and provide the content. The only options are advertising, product sales, or subscription services, sometimes a combination of all three.

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S~~

[kenja]

The logo "works" for me, but I wonder if the general public would take "PC" as meaning "Political Correctness". http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[ranchdog]

My T-Shirt says Luv PC Guide and I HAVEHair. IXL that guy that keeps looking at me over the top of that Banner makes me think he wants to steal my car or something?...........I'll be here rain or shine

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"Lemmee Fix That Thing......."
-Beauty is only a light switch away.-

[Paleo Pete]

I resemble that remark! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
YOU! Out of the gene pool!
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[wiltrot]

I don't care as long as it doesn't interfere with my purpose for coming.
I have high speed broadband cable so have no problems dealing with it. I am
accustomed to paying for access to other sites like (TechProGuild 8.95 a month) if the information has value to me I will pay for it. So do what
you think is indispensable to maintaining this site. If it has value people
will pay. I think someone like you who goes throught the trouble to furnish a site (and a nice one I might add) is entitled to some kind of profit or at least we should be willing to help you bear the burden if any.
What you have provide Free for us should at least be Free for you.

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What's up with that?