Replace heatsink FAN

[vivien]

hi there,
i want to know if i can replace just the fan and not the whole heatsink. everything is running okay, but the fan is driving me batty and i really don't want to mess with the whole thermal grease/tape issue in connecting a new hs to my cpu. old system, not sure what info you need.

AMD Athlon-PECM 1400mhz
mobo: Jetway V266B chipset: VIA VT8366A, Apollo KT66A
Phoenix-Award BIOS
PSU: Antec Earthwatts 380W
HSF: Thermaltake Volcano 6 cu+
NVidia RIVA TNT
WDC IDE 80gb hdd
LITE-ON cdrw
PIONEER cdrom
256mb PC2100 DDR SDRAM 266mhz (upgrading another 256mb)

thanks for any info/guidance you can give me.
vivien

[odannyboy000]

you will have to buy a new heatsink.

[vivien]

hi odannyboy!

why?

[risk_reversal]

I take it your HSF is the second one down

http://www.a7vtroubleshooting.com/articles/coolers/DetailsThermalTake.htm

and according to the Thermaltake site its a 60x60x25 fan.

From the photo looks like the fan is attached to the heatsink with 4 screws so no reason I can see why it cannot be changed.

Advice for replacement:

1. make sure you get a fan which spins at about the same speed. Reason I say that is because the heasink itself is so small that perhaps the fan needs to generate air pressure.

2. Make sure that the amps of the fan you get is not too high ie .25 amp is fine or 3 watts.

Good Luck

[vivien]

hey risk,
I take it your HSF is the second one down
not sure what you mean here...tho HSF is Thermaltake. i thot i could take fan to store and match up size/specs. read AMD cpu runs hot, so i didn't want to go slower RPM's..i think current is 7200rpm.
is there anything specific i should look for to ensure new fan is quieter?
thanks, vivien :)
edit: whoops..maybe its 7000rpm.

[vivien]

oh, i just found on coolguys where they say replacing 60mm higher rpm fan with 80mm lower rpm fan using adaptor could work. think this might work with my AMD?
viv

[Fruss Tray Ted]

The first thing to do is look at your CPU temps when under load. Depending on this, there may be nothing you need to buy and just throttling the fan speed would suffice. Just replacing a smaller diameter fan with a larger on that set of fins may be more complicated than it seems. It would be a waste to downgrade to a stock fan or toss the Thermal for an 80mm

Are you going to go for the gusto and start gaming with this pc? If so, you'll need all you can get for cooling and for softer, quieter, more intimate moments with your pc, all you'd need to do is take it s-l-o-w and e-a-s-y... :p

If it were me I'd remove the whole unit, lap the heatsink, and reapply thermal paste, then reassemble, considering it has been stored for quite some time. Then adjust fan speeds (Smart fans in BIOS) to acceptable levels as long as temps allow.

Weren't you supposed to give this pc to someone after resurrecting it? Hehe.... :p

[risk_reversal]

In theory and practise no reason why the 60-->80mm fan adapter should not work, though I have never used them personally.

The HSF unit you have is small and will not really give you any kind of adequate cooling. I am running a Thermalright XP-90 on my rig with a 92mm fan and just the heatsink alone is very large.

Cooling should also be looked at from an overall framework ie no point in having the best hsf in the world but you case cooling is poor.

Good Luck

[vivien]

hey FTT!! don't you EVER get any sleep!!
Weren't you supposed to give this pc to someone after resurrecting it? Hehe....
yup, yup..yur right. it's just that i'm having so much fun with it right now, but i WILL have to let go of her... :(
ok, 1st things 1st: temps not going above 45C/109F.
this pc was built for gaming years ago, but not so with friend's ownership.
she likes the speed, but hates the noise the HSF puts out.
read that AMD puts out a lot of heat AND it won't shut pc down when overheated (a feature of AMD).
looked in BIOS and saw no way to change fan speed.
thinking i might need BIOS upgrade, went to website and they charge for upgrade.

If it were me I'd remove the whole unit, lap the heatsink, and reapply thermal paste, then reassemble
ok, smarty.. :p but, the above statement puts fear in me :eek:
i could ruin the processor itself. i may be a little lighter shade of green, but green is green. :)
viv
P.S. reading further on the 60-80mm adaptor, they say to remove the heatsink and do a "cleanup" anyway. <shudder>
trying to research if there's a compatible HSF with thermal tape already on HS that i can purchase. just want cool & quiet pc without breaking $$.
found specs on current HSF at http://thermaltakeusa.com/2005/coolers/volcano/si/a1138.htm
thot i could walk into store & say gimme-a-fan-like-this, but quiet?

[vivien]

okay, so research on thermal tape is nixed with AMD. said use thermal grease with lots of warnings/cautions.
went into PC Health section on BIOS and there is no 'smart fan' adjustment in there that i see. can i do this somewhere else? didn't see anything on control panel either.
if i can't do a 'smart fan' adjustment, then is any case fan meeting the specks of current HS fan, okay to use?
viv

[risk_reversal]

If you have no experience in removing a hsf then it can be a daunting task. I remember my first time. I was pouring in sweat when I finished and wondered if I had done it correctly.

If you do not feel comfortable then get a new fan. If you feel braver then replace the current hsf, there are instructions on how to do this on the net just search.

The only warning I will give you is as follows:

- Tinkering with a pc can be highly addictive. Prior to any such activity ensure that you have sufficient funds in your bank account to feed your habit. :)

Good luck

PS My wife's pc run a Jetway V266B board with a AMD XP Thoroughbred 1800+. Nice little board very solid in terms of its performance.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

Risky,
Could you take a look at the manual for your wife's mobo and see if there is a way to throttle the fan? The Jetway manuals, located in China, are all timing out for that model and any with the same chipset. Thanks

Edit:
Found it (http://www.machspeed.com/manuals/VIPER/V266B.pdf)

[vivien]

omg, thank you Fruss Tray!
i looked at the manual, went into my BIOS on AMD to PC Health.
screen shows the 1st 3 items changeable (either to disable/enable).
the rest of the info (fans, cpu, etc.) are grayed out and i cannot change those. so, do i spend $$ to upgrade BIOS (if the upgrade will allow rpm change)..or, can i get ANY kind of case fan matching the cpu/hsf specs and try to replace?
viv

[Fruss Tray Ted]

Your mobo does not have ability on it's own to regulate fan speeds.

This software (http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php) if compatible with your system is not for the faint of heart. You could seriously damage your system such as processor or mobo if you aren't careful.

I would suggest bringing the fan down to 95% at first, letting it run for awhile under load and seeing what difference the temps became. Then moving on to deeper water if you aren't afraid of sharks... ;)

Edit:
You're welcome!

[vivien]

i feel a faint coming on ;)
well, i'm more apt to just changing out the whole heatsink fan combo. but, if i get the same setup, i'm not sure the fan noise will be any less.
vivien wrote: then is any case fan meeting the specks of current HS fan, okay to use?
so, i might as well start with seeing if i can replace just fan, but is the above statement true?
viv
edit: i'm thinking with newer models, they should be somewhat quieter than this 6+years old one?

[EnzoMatrix]

Unless it's one of those big fancy Copper coolers or the monster coiled HS, I don't see why not. I've replaced fans on HS before and they work out just fine. Right to test the load on the Processor to see what kind of cooling you need. Sometimes you can create a air vortex tunnel with the right case using a replaced fan and a mounted fan on the back or side of the case.

Custom is just that, Custom. Almost every situation is unique.

[vivien]

enzomatrix..i have enough cooling under the hood (1 back fan, 3 front fans, cpu fan). i was wanting to replace the small cpu fan due to the noise factor (sounds like a hairdryer). trying not to have to put in whole heatsink, too.
Right to test the load on the Processor to see what kind of cooling you need
i don't know what that means or how to test the load. sorry.
but, it sounds like a fan is a fan (using same specs) and so i wouldn't have to use a special fan for the cpu.
in that case, my fan & i are doing some walking to the local pc store.
thanks!
vivien

[risk_reversal]

vivien, in the first instance remove the side panel of the pc and note what kind of impact it has on temps and specifically on the temp of the cpu. If you note a big drop ie over 3-4C, then this will be indicative of poor case flow.

i have enough cooling under the hood (1 back fan, 3 front fans, cpu fan).
The number of case fans is not the determining feature of good case cooling. Adding case cooling fans can be counter productive as the airflows can 'collide' and create 'dead spots'.

There is no getting around the fact that smaller fans need to spin faster than larger fans in order to deliver the same CFM (sorry I know I am stating obvious).

SpeedFan is a good software utility which (if compatible on your rig, should be) can be used to slow down the fan. Other alternative is getting a fan controller.

Good Luck

[saphalline]

You don't need to break the bank if you want adequate cooling for an Athlon 1.4. Relatively speaking, it's cheap (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835150039). OC'ing costs money. Adequate stock cooling doesn't.

I wouldn't recommend a 60mm-to-80mm adapter as they add height that your internal case space may not allow. They also add torque to your socket, which is not good for older designs like Socket A.

[vivien]

okay, maybe i need to try this from a different approach.
it's not the cooling that is the issue...it's the noise of the heatsink fan (i didn't know where else to post this thread).
i am only looking at replacing the existing noisy fan with one that is less noisy as mentioned in post #1.
the pc temps are still running consistently around 46C (45C with the side panel off).
This software (SmartFan) if compatible with your system is not for the faint of heart. You could seriously damage your system such as processor or mobo if you aren't careful.

i can download the SmartFan utility and start with bringing fan down 95%, BUT, nowhere can i find any info on what is a SAFE temp for AMD cpu. i did find that the AMD will NOT shut itself down (like other systems) when the temps are breached. so, as you can tell, i am really, really, really thinking it safer for me to try and locate another quieter fan, than mess with the fan speed especially if i don't know what max temp i should be watching for least i melt the dang thing.

in update: i went to the BestBuy & was told that i could not use an ordinary case fan for the cpu fan, that i must use a "cpu fan". so, it's looking like i might have to replace the whole hsf unit anyway (and that, my friends, brings me full circle).

it seemed so simple to just replace the fan, but i couldn't find one that wasn't attached to a heatsink...ah, and there's the rub.

if this pc was just for me, then i wouldn't mind experimenting by replacing the hsf, but i didn't want to botch it up or cause something else to go wrong on my 1st attempt.
thanks for all your input...not sure what i should try at this point. i guess i could call thermaltake & see if they sell individual "cpu fans".
viv

viv

[Fruss Tray Ted]

46C is rather warm to begin slowing the fan down. We really don't want to get over 50C. You would need to lap the heatsink first, reapply compound and reseat it, and this involves removing it from the processor.

How you like me now?!?! :p

[vivien]

How you like me now?!?!
aw, fruss, iknowlikausomuchnomore :D
ok, ok..i hear a Toby Keith song playing in the background..
guess i'll have to bite the bullet sooner or later, might as well be now.
thanks again FTT.
hmmmm, is this your plan to get me over my fear of playing with the cpu/heatsink? ;)
viv
P.S. be gone for week, so don't think i blew myself up.....yet.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

hmmmm, is this your plan to get me over my fear of playing with the cpu/heatsink?
It's either that or your getting over stage fright and playing the Tuba onstage... ;)

Whenever you're ready...

[vivien]

anybody gotta tuba i can borrow?

[saphalline]

nowhere can i find any info on what is a SAFE temp for AMD cpu.Why didn't you say so? :p

First of all, there's not necessarily a safe temp for AMD CPU's in general. It's more on a CPU-by-CPU basis. That old Athlon 1.4 puts out a lot of heat in particular (that one model) because it was the fastest of the Thunderbird core revision and was really pushing the 180nm process. Ideal idle temp for that CPU is just under 40C, with full load being safe at around 55C. It can get hotter, but I wouldn't recommend that considering the CPU's age. Best to keep it as cool as possible for the remainder of its lifespan.

Second of all, what Best Buy told you is mostly true. Case fans generally do not make good CPU fans because of two factors: bearing type, and connector type. Most case fans use the sleeve bearing type or a single ball bearing because it makes them cheaper. This is not usually an issue because case fans are not critical and are easy to replace. But reliability for a CPU fan is paramount. The connector is also different (usually). Most case fans use the small 2-pin power connector or a standard 4-pin molex. CPU fans use the small 3-pin power connector, with the third pin being used for RPM monitoring. This is so that the mobo knows the fan is spinning. Without that RPM monitoring pin, a standard case fan would appear to the mobo as not spinning; thus the mobo would refuse to power on the system due to a safety/cooling problem. However, there are case fans that can double as CPU fans. So what they told you is true in most circumstances, but not always.

Thirdly, if you really want to reduce the noise on that thing without sacrificing cooling, you need to replace that archaic HSF unit. Depending on its age (presumably quite old), it's probably beyond effectiveness and simply removing it, cleaning it, and reapplying thermal grease would drop the temps alone. Besides that, replacing just the fan with a quieter one is not recommended if this PC will be going out of your hands and you want reliability. Any type of fan "hack" that you do to it at this point is going to come with a warning in fine print. There will always be a disclaimer of some sort when you take apart anything that was sold as a single unit. Once you break the seal... You know how it works. ;) I suggest replacing the whole HSF unit and start over. It's a pain, but the system will be far more reliable in the long run.

[vivien]

thank you, Saphalline...nice explanation. i will order a new hsf b4 i leave. i will be prepared to replace it and i'm sure i'll have questions when i do so.
the 1st time is always the most apprehensive, but i guess there has to be a first... :eek:
viv

[lisaonholiday]

As you stated at the top the problem is excessive noise from the fan.

Option 1 replace unit

Option 2 not one available due to cost/time/effort involved

The cost of a replacement is nothing really and if you go to a local pc repair rather than a national electronics reseller they may, just maybe, have one in an old machine they let you have for free. well it worked for me but i did smile :)

[saphalline]

well it worked for me but i did smile :)The old lean over the counter trick? ;) I've seen that one more than once. I've noticed that it really does tend to work! Then again, most computer geeks fall under a very specific... paradigm, shall we say. :o :D