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bassman
03-12-2002, 02:57 PM
Hello all,
I would like to start this out by saying, "I am posting this in the suggestions forum because I want it to be considered a Suggestion!"

I have been here for almost 14 months. I have learned a lot, and met some great people. I see, on a daily basis, people with varying knowledge and experience helping others in any way they can.
This is a wonderful thing and to my understanding, maybe even better than the management expected.

But as with anything in life, with the good, comes the bad.

I have also seen, probably on a monthly basis, someone come into our little world and send it into mild pandemonium http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif
One even claimed to be doing it as a test in human nature http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif

When this happens, tempers can flair, finger pointing begins, and unnecessary comments are inevitable. This is human nature. Itís expected and not always pretty.

The problem I have in this is, we often stray away from the stranger and begin showing our manly hood to those we consider friends and colleagues.
This is viewed as disrespectful and unprofessional.

Nobody here is getting paid for this but, remember this. When you are here, you are part of a team that is providing a service. You should conduct yourself as if this is your job or even your business.

It has been discussed here before that the written word can often be misleading as to the true feeling behind a comment. This needs to be remembered at all times by both sides of the conversation.
Some of us have been here together for over a year, and I do not feel like that is adequate time to really get to know you under the circumstances involved with the internet.
So it should go without saying (but I will), any amount of time less than that could be considered insufficient to allow understanding of one anotherís feelings or intentions.

Anonymity is a wonderful and dangerous thing. You will say things here that you would not say to someone in another situation. Please remember that and try to act as if the person annoying you were standing on the other side of your service counter in your shop. One bad referral is more powerful than ten good.
And above all, show respect to your teammates in a public place. Discuss your problems with them in private (I am posting it in public because I do not feel there is anything disrespectful to us and I am sure that the follow-up responses will show anyone who cares, our comradery and respect for one another). For those of you who still donít post an E-mail address, I guess you get the next best thing http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

We are part of a great TEAM when we are here. I have a lot of pride in that. Being a part of a team means, that as an individual, our communities respect for us is affected by the actions of any other.

Now to be more specific!
We have an annoyance in our presence. This person should have been ignored long ago. Instead, the comments have continued to flow. One thread is now 20 postings long. I find this to be a HUGE waste of time, energy, and disk space.
A person with this type of psychological makeup can not be taught decency and respect simply by telling them they need to say ďthank you.Ē

Although I am sure these questions were legitimate knowledge building, they were clearly beyond the scope of work for this shop and should have been referred to in that manner.
I know it started out that way, but then it went sour when this personís impoliteness prevailed over our attempts to help.
We should have stopped, and need to remember that in the future. This will happen again.
Remember this age-old adage: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

OH YEA, one last thing!
Ladies, please cover your eyes here.
Gentlemen, this is not the place to measure your penis http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Please keep your pants on and stick to the work at hand http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif

Thank you
Frank


------------------
A real Christian is one who can give his pet parrot to the town gossip.
Frank's Place (http://dreamwater.net/tech/frankscomp/)

kfh
03-12-2002, 03:19 PM
Hi Bassman,
Nice words.
I feel a small part of the team even if I'm a novice.
I Know since I've been here I learnt alot, with all the help received.
I'd like to think I've made a few friends as well.
This is one hell of a great place to come for advice.
And of course a laugh in the after hours club.
kfh.
http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Sequitur Patrem Non Passibus Aequis

[This message has been edited by kfh (edited 03-12-2002).]

YODA74
03-12-2002, 03:57 PM
Very Well Said, http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/cool.gif

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Death has come to our windows.

-- Jeremiah 9:21
(undoubtedly a Biblical reference to a Microsoft product!)

YODA74@carolina.rr.com

Ghost_Hacker
03-12-2002, 05:06 PM
Very well said indeed.... http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

I will endeavor to keep my belt tightly fastened http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

ErnieK
03-12-2002, 05:42 PM
Hear Hear! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Ernie

hiredgoonz
03-13-2002, 12:06 AM
We have to wear pants here? Did my wife put you up to this? http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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When all else fails, read the instructions.

Microsoft Knowledge Base (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;rid;kbinfo)

Drivers (http://www.driverguide.com)

Google (http://www.google.com)

iisbob
03-13-2002, 02:02 AM
I seem to vaguely remember an appendage like that before i got married?!

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif

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iisbob

"It is by the fortune of God that, in this country, we have three benefits: freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and the wisdom never to use either."
-Mark Twain { Samuel Clemen's }

kayofcircles
03-13-2002, 12:52 PM
Must have missed another nasty, huh? Because no idea what you're referring to, but glad I missed it. Agree totally on rest of comments. Personally, I have gotten very fond of the regulars here..and learned so very much from you guys that I pass along to my husband and many others here in our tiny community without puter shops. (We had a puter shop, but they closed up and ran off with customers' money, puters, and parts..and will be tarred and feathered should we ever catch up with them.) But my point is that without your expertise, we would have no help here. So in my eyes, anything that upsets you guys or causes disruption here..SUCKS.. and should be dealt with promptly and decidedly, if possible.

andyswork@beci.net
03-13-2002, 11:34 PM
I agree with all the above and add my many thanks to you all for all the help.

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One day I will be a pro, Thanks Andy

Whyzman
03-14-2002, 10:58 PM
AMEN! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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May all your dealings in life be win/win!


Whyzman
----------------------
Reserved for Punishing Humor...A Pessimist's blood is always B-negative!

hiredgoonz
03-15-2002, 01:02 AM
You can't make me wear pants, only the cops can do that...

------------------
When all else fails, read the instructions.

Microsoft Knowledge Base (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;rid;kbinfo)

Drivers (http://www.driverguide.com)

Google (http://www.google.com)

bassman
03-15-2002, 01:44 AM
Hired, your killin me http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

And NO, your wife had nothing to do with this http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif

BOB, don't know that I even had an Appendage before marriage, more like a digit http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
A real Christian is one who can give his pet parrot to the town gossip.
Frank's Place (http://dreamwater.net/tech/frankscomp/)

diurnal
03-15-2002, 05:50 AM
Very well said bassman. As for what you are referring to , i dont know but i have good guess. I been here long of enough to know what your referring to. I have been gone for awhile, (wargames) so excuse me for not knowing what is happening. If we , just a suggestion , had a ranting board where every one could let out steam, because it builds up on these forums.

That would be because you know it going to happen, so putting all the rants gripes, moans and annoyances into a separate forum would lessen the blow. This would result in every thing being confined to that spot , hopefully. Although you could just go to another forum to let off steam cause i know there some out there.

Well good point Bassman. Cya http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Murph's Law: 1.Everything takes longer than you think
2.If anything can go wrong it will
3.Nothing is as easy as it looks

Whyzman
03-15-2002, 08:59 AM
Now that's a thought Diurnal, Hmmm...we could call it Cathartic Forums, a place to pour one's heart out, vent, shred, cuss, get even, etc. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/mad.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/redface.gif

And, then when the Submit Post button is hit...Poof...into cyberspace...since it was really for the Poster's benefit anyway! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

No one would be offended or want to retaliate...Kewl! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
May all your dealings in life be win/win!


Whyzman
----------------------
Reserved for Punishing Humor...A Pessimist's blood is always B-negative!

[This message has been edited by Whyzman (edited 03-15-2002).]

kayofcircles
03-15-2002, 10:47 AM
We already have the After Hours section for some venting. Don't think we need a ranting spot..and besides, when we do have a spoiler passing through and ticking us all off..that's usually confined to one thread, but the "attitude" is spilling over to the rest of the forum. I am glad I missed this last one, because the one before had me reluctant to come here in the mornings...and had me thinking afterward more about the spoiler than about peoples' puter problems. Since I come to help if possible, and learn if not, that's counterproductive to get wrapped up in ego battles.

PS Don't think we mind a bit, hired, if you're naked, covered with purple body paint and wearing a feather in your hair...as long as you can still type coherently. In fact, makes for a nice visual. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by kayofcircles (edited 03-15-2002).]

sea69
03-15-2002, 11:22 AM
hey there,

while I agree with many points made here, there are some I do not:


Nobody here is getting paid for this but, remember this. When you are here, you are part of a team that is providing a service. You should conduct yourself as if this is your job or even your business.
I don't actually disagree with the above, but would like to point out that yes, as we do work as a TEAM here to help others and learn ourselves this to me is not considered a "job" or part of a business, this is a friendly refuge from the other not too friendly venues.

Here, we have "favorites" (topics and people) that we respond to in that manner. Then we also get individuals who have no manners or 'netequet' and I think it is healthy to let them know how we do things here. I don't mean that it is good to attempt to OFFEND people at will or be harsh.. (as the written word often appears- as mentioned)

I also find it healthy that as a TEAM if one member of that team is unduly harrased by someone that doesn't know how we do things here that we should LET THEM KNOW. (politely- but in NO uncertain terms)

To elaborate on this; Our moderator Pete has set the precedents here that abusive behavior is NOT TOLERATED by new people or those of us that have been here for a long time. This policy is WELL KNOWN by all that frequent here and MUST be made known to those that just join.

That's how this site has REMAINED one of the few consistenly enjoyable places to come to all the time and not only get an ANSWER, but perhaps a smile or two.

If we were to IGNORE or not comment on idiot behavior, we would then be condoning it and the door would be opened to the rest of the "chat_whores" that bound/bind up everything good in the world. (lol)

I have seen it suggested that we answer in the vain of "just the facts maam" like dragnet, but honestly while usefull information MUST be clear- I feel that one can still appropriately inject some personality into the reply.

we are not robots. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

following this:


And above all, show respect to your teammates in a public place. Discuss your problems with them in private (I am posting it in public because I do not feel there is anything disrespectful to us and I am sure that the follow-up responses will show anyone who cares, our comradery and respect for one another). For those of you who still donít post an E-mail address, I guess you get the next best thing

well, I didn't recieve an email from you, Frank so I guess I'm "ok" ??'

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

as for treating people as if they were in the SAME ROOM as you- on THIS I totally AGREE. (and have stated many times)

there is much LESS "anonymity" on the internet than MOST people think!
me for example- I am totally open to who I am, where I am, and even my phone number- everything else and that is right there for anyone to see, so while I can get riled up too- I try to temper (try- the optimum word) my responses to what I would say to a person in person.

and:

One thread is now 20 postings long. I find this to be a HUGE waste of time, energy, and disk space.
A person with this type of psychological makeup can not be taught decency and respect simply by telling them they need to say ďthank you.Ē
he was not asked to say "Thank You", he was asked to aplogise and mend the error of his ways and to not insult the good members of this board.

ultimately, {{IMO}} threads like this ( one mentioned above ) should be locked by our moderator along with a comment on WHY the thread was locked.
as for my PENIS, it remains where it belongs!

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif


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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)

[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 03-15-2002).]

Pianorak
03-15-2002, 12:41 PM
<<. . . We have an annoyance in our presence. This person should have been ignored long ago. . .>>

Phew!! Was beginning to feel guilty and left out since I hadn't a clue as to who the present culprit might be. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/redface.gif But mercifully diurnal and Kay too have claimed ignorance. Thank God for that! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif However, since "Oi likes to know these things" perhaps someone could email me.(This being a public forum we don't want the neighbours to know, right? http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif ) Yeah, my email address is there to see for all and sundry, just like Sea's (hoe staat 't met de zaken, mijnheer?). http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif


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Our minds never work so fast as when they have to find an excuse J.L.H. Thomas

sea69
03-15-2002, 02:22 PM
hehe- sprekken engels!

the government must know everything!



[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 03-15-2002).]

kfh
03-15-2002, 02:51 PM
Nicely put Sea,
I come here to learn, Share, And have a laugh when appropriate.
I always leave this place at night with a smile on my face.
Thats why I visit every day.
kfh.
http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif



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Sequitur Patrem Non Passibus Aequis

Whyzman
03-15-2002, 07:38 PM
Kay,

I wasn't serious about a "real" Cathartic Forum! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif When you'd hit submit the thing would go "poof"! Gone, history, not to be read by anyone...it would disappear into cyberspace! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif

It was a vain attempt at humor shortly after waking up, definitely not a good thing for me! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif

------------------
May all your dealings in life be win/win!


Whyzman
----------------------
Reserved for Punishing Humor...A Pessimist's blood is always B-negative!

not_fred
03-15-2002, 11:10 PM
I'm thinking that a Ranting Forum would be a good thing. Ixl wouldn't have to work hard to figure out to make sure that anything going in never came out again...

kayofcircles
03-16-2002, 11:57 AM
I caught that "And, then when the Submit Post button is hit...Poof...into cyberspace" in your first remarks, Whyzman, and knew you were not serious. I was just reminded of a friend of mine who hates going to work in the mornings. She likes the job, but coworkers gossip, criticize, and generally seem to loathe one another..makes for nasty work environment. We here come together in a common interest in puters, common joys when they work right, and common woes when they don't. I think we have found other common ground with each other sometimes..in photos, or music, or whatever. (You will note, please, that I am NOT "touching" any of the above appendage remarks..lol.) I just concur with Bassman's original remarks at the top: "The problem I have in this is, we often stray away from the stranger and begin showing our manly hood to those we consider friends and colleagues." It upsets me when my teachers fight..it just does. So I am not gonna go and look to see who was involved in the last fight..I don't want to know. Going with the ignorance is bliss. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

sea69
03-16-2002, 12:33 PM
hehe kay- can't help it- the subject/appendage _(LOL) is still there and we can't seem to hide it!

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif

I just talked to Frank on the telephone so guess what- we had a nice laugh and all is/ always was "well"

we just have different ways of expressing things.

I ALWAYS talk to people like they are in the same room as I am.. that's where the confusion may come from- I say it like it is (or at least how I see it)

if this thread can be interpreted as one about unity amoung site members- then I think we are ok!

(btw- frank is a very cool guy)

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)

[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 03-16-2002).]

Whyzman
03-16-2002, 12:51 PM
Kay, you are one of the special reasons I enjoy frequenting the PC Guide Forums! Kinda figured you'd caught that... As kfh mentioned earlier, regarding the smile, I concur! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Since effective oral communication appears to be multi-part...words, tones, gestures, posture, and facial expressions...the written word leaves us at a definite disadvantage without the necessary time and space to "paint the picture" of more than just the words themselves.

Also, have you noticed that we tend to react negatively to whomever might be in our immediate proximity if we're already "having a bad day?" I might have a bad day at the office, come home, and take it out on the dog, the cat, my wife, the kids...and they had nothing to do with it. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif

The old, "count to ten," step back, appraise the situation for what it really is, can often prevent spreading the disease of "miscommunication" and inviting others into the toe stepping dance! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/mad.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
May all your dealings in life be win/win!


Whyzman
----------------------
Reserved for Punishing Humor...A Pessimist's blood is always B-negative!

iisbob
03-16-2002, 08:07 PM
Just gonna say that i din't realize who or what this topic really was about until i asked Sea what all the " hulaboo " was ; i just took it that Bass was just being his normally sensible/jolly self-hence my " appendage" comment.

Then, WHAM i see this post take on a decidely serious turn and i didn't have a clue as to why. So i asked Sea to elaborate for me what i had missed out on.

I never did follow up on the post simply because i didn't think it worth bothering with; and i certainly could care less what some " got my first PC last Xmas, now i'm an expert " thinks about myself or GH.


This remind's me of the incident we had awhile back with the Kid-idiot poster-these individual's must be related. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


------------------
iisbob

"It is by the fortune of God that, in this country, we have three benefits: freedom of speech, freedom of thought, and the wisdom never to use either."
-Mark Twain { Samuel Clemen's }

[This message has been edited by iisbob (edited 03-16-2002).]

BigBlue66
03-17-2002, 12:36 AM
Um, I must have been up in the conception room 'cause I don't know what the heck is going on here. Oh, and NO, we weren't measuring appendages up there. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Oh and hey, if I'm supposed to wear pants now, how the heck can I count to 21? http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

BB 66

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This space reserved for highly intelligent observations and witty remarks.

"After the wedding, we all went up to the conception room and had a big time up there"
-------- Tommy Smothers

bassman
03-17-2002, 12:45 AM
Well Bob, that is pretty much what I'm talking about (Kid-Idiot and now this new one). Their opinion of us shouldn't matter and we need to keep our cool amongst ourselves.
Although it was mild this time, the fingerpointing and chestpuffing did happen.
If anyone remembers, before the kid left, several of us (and I say US as a team) indirectly blamed others for the disruption.
We have no way of knowing who it was, but i know someone left here with the feeling they would never be trusted again http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif

I agree with SEA in that, we need to let people know how things work here and that we will not tolorate these types of disruptions and abuse. The rules are clearly defined by management.

My suggestion in this is, we need to cut these kinds of things off before they get that far. One statement, clearly made, then no further responses until they cleanup their act or go away. If management is not able to take care of it because it snowballs to fast, we need to control ourselves.
It always seems to go to the point where we get at each other, and that is what bothers me.

These kinds of people are all around us and this will happen again.
Lets just try to remember to take good care of ourselves http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

Maybe we need to get together for an annual pizza bar-b-que http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/cool.gif

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A real Christian is one who can give his pet parrot to the town gossip.
Frank's Place (http://dreamwater.net/tech/frankscomp/)

sea69
03-17-2002, 12:55 AM
My suggestion in this is, we need to cut these kinds of things off before they get that far. One statement, clearly made, then no further responses until they cleanup their act or go away. If management is not able to take care of it because it snowballs to fast, we need to control ourselves.


agreed!!

remind me huh??

(case I start puffin up)

heh

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)

[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 03-16-2002).]

Paleo Pete
03-17-2002, 10:08 PM
Interesting discussion...yes, I've been keeping up with it...wanted to see where it would lead.

I'll have to check to be sure, but I think I was busy the weekend of the topic mostly being referred to here, the band I play guitar for kept me busy till 3AM both Friday and Saturday nights, and I wasn't about to dig through the forums for another 2 or 3 hours afterward...

I was impressed by the way it was handled by the regulars here, feathers were ruffled a bit, but it didn't deteriorate into an insult flinging contest, which has happened in the past at times. I thought it was handled very well, all things considered.

The point bassman brought up is one I have always hoped would develop into a common means of dealing with individuals of the same basic nature as this one. I normally leave topics like this one open for a reason, if I were to cut them off quick the irritation and resentment would have no outlet, and we would probably have an even bigger problem.

While I would like to see everyone try to be as even tempered as possible, I also have to realize that is a pipe dream. We all, (myself included) occasionally find it necessary to blow a bit of steam. It happens, I have no misconceptions about it, and I don't want to prohibit it at all. That would be trouble.

At the same time, I do have to try and "keep it down to a dull roar" so to speak. So...even if sometimes folks do tend to let off some steam, I still expect them to try and keep from being outright insulting or vulgar. The topic that prompted this one showed me that my efforts in that direction were not wasted, the regulars here handled it very well. I saw no profanity, and very little that was insulting, I can't ask for better than that.

If none get any worse than that in the future, I think that would be great. We will see more attitudes of this type, it can't be avoided. When we do, I usually go about my business for a while till I cool down, then go back and compose a response that is as intelligent and level headed as possible. The last thing I need to do is blow my stack, that would be the worst example I could ever set. In some cases I wait till the next morning and I can approach it already aware of what the situation is and with a general idea how I want to respond.

I agree that in an ideal world we should be able to set the matter straight quickly and with little ado, but in reality it rarely works that way. If the regular members will try to remain level headed in such cases that is the best I can ask for, and if things do get out of hand occasionally, the only way I can look at it realistically is...it can't be avoided...deal with it...

OK, I've said about all I can, thanks to everyone for working with me for a long time to make the PC Guide Discussion Forums the best tech support forums on the Internet. In no way could I have brought the forums to the present point without the consistent and outstanding support and cooperation of the rest of you. We have gained the respect of many people, I see comments about it all over the forums. We have an outstanding group of regulars who work together and have a great time too. Can't hope for better than that...occasional topics like this are just bumps in the road, I have no doubt at this point we will put them behind us and press on.

Scotty...Warp 4 http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
If your nose runs and your feet smell...
You're built upside down!
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.dreamwater.com/paleopete/computer.htm) has been moved, please update your bookmarks.

sea69
03-17-2002, 10:21 PM
Stellar Post Pete!

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif



[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 03-17-2002).]

Paleo Pete
03-20-2002, 09:17 AM
Tank Yew http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
If your nose runs and your feet smell...
You're built upside down!
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.dreamwater.com/paleopete/computer.htm) has been moved, please update your bookmarks.

borgdrone1of2
03-22-2002, 12:56 AM
HELLO
i fined these forums both help full and informative. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/cool.gif

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resistance is invigorateing lol

Jiggy
03-27-2002, 07:45 PM
hi all, i to am very thankful to all.
and as its been said somewhere above good friends all around.


forgive me, im young. Jiggy

hiredgoonz
03-27-2002, 10:03 PM
And they don't make you wear pants... http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
When all else fails, read the instructions.

Microsoft Knowledge Base (http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=fh;rid;kbinfo)

Drivers (http://www.driverguide.com)

Google (http://www.google.com)