Big changes on the way

[ixl]

Hello everyone,

Well, it's been a long time in coming, but some big changes are afoot at the PC Guide forums.

I have purchased and installed new BBS software for the forums, which I am currently testing. The new software is vBulletin, which has a TON of features and improvements compared to the current UBB forums. So many I couldn't begin to list them all, but start with much better user controls, customizable options, a search engine that is actually useful, private messaging and a lot more.

In preparation for the new software, Pete, mjc and I are also working on a plan to overhaul the forum structure to make the forums easier to use. I have asked for feedback on this matter before but never done anything about it, and I apologize for that. But this time, I promise, it's going to happen -- the software is there and I am dying to get it in use.

What I would like to know from folks here is what your views are on the forum structure. There are a few known problems that we plan to address -- some forums that aren't used enough, others that tend to be "catch alls" because they are too vague, etc.

One question I would especially like to explore is the following: do people like having separate forums for different hardware topics, the way we do now (different ones for system, storage, audio/video, peripherals, etc) or would it be better to just have one, large, "hardware" forum? In the latter case, you wouldnt have to move between forums as much. On the other hand, it would be a much more "busy" forum, and perhaps a bit more difficult to look at only one type of hardware question.

Answers to this, and any other thoughts or suggestions you might have, much appreciated.

PS: The new software also gets rid of the need to type your password for each post, which I know will make certain people very happy. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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Charles M. Kozierok
Webslave, The PC Guide (http://www.PCGuide.com)
Comprehensive PC Reference, Troubleshooting, Optimization and Buyer's Guides...
Note: Please reply to my forum postings here on the forums. Thanks.

[jabarnutcase]

Hi ixl!
Wow, it's cool to finally reply to the guy that made all of this happen.
I think, like you said, that maybe a "hardware only" forum would fill up way too fast- I personally like the seperate hardware topics. I'ts not so bad to move around between them.

If anything, I think that broadening the topics would be better. For example, I think we should have a seperate topic for "Browsers/Email" or whatever. This is a topic that I see an awful lot of questions and replies about. I'm sure you guys already have several plans in mind.

Anyway, I'm sure a LOT more replies are on the way.

Lastly, I would like to congratulate mjc on his new "position" and just say that you and Pete have done an incredible job here.
I am new to the forum and think it's the best!

I know that you guys are extremely busy, but if you haven't already read it, you may find my comments on you guys in After Hours ("Way to go") interesting.
Leo Laporte finds you interesting too! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

Keep up the AWESOME work! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"The perfect computer has been developed. You just feed in your problems and they never come out again"

[YODA74]

the way we do now (different ones for system, storage, audio/video, peripherals, etc) or would it be better to just have one, large, "hardware" forum? In the latter case, you wouldnt have to move between forums as much. On the other hand, it would be a much more "busy" forum, and perhaps a bit more difficult to look at only one type of hardware question.





It's hard enough just to get someone to post in the proper section as it is,It's like some either just don't read before posting or just don't care.So makeing it anymore difficult to manuvor wouldn't be such a hot Idea.As Example posting in the Announcement section ( maybe keeping this section locked until you or the moderators open it.Personally I think the site works great the way it is.Maybe adding one for Networking, and one just for NTFS systems keeping this seperat from 9x systems? but then again going to run into the problem of not reading before you post? No matter which way you go with this it has to be where the moderators and you can manage it.Hopefully with the new addition of our new moderator (mjc) that keeping double posts and wrong section postings will be caught early on and dealt with quicker.But it's like building a car if you have the instruction book in front of you and you don't have the common sence to read and understand it you have no buisness under the hood.

I will say some sections are a little vague The two main culprits here would be (operating systems/software) maybe break them down a bit? enough of my complaning, no matter what you decide IXL were behind you,beside you,in front of you,with you a hundred percent.

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PUSH TO TEST. RELEASE TO DETONATE.
[Closed captioned for the thinking impaired.]

[Ghost_Hacker]

Hmmmmm...I too would vote for a network troubleshooting forum. Other than that I like the way things are setup now.


Can't wait to try out the new software http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Steve]

Hi ixl,

Sounds like big changes are underway. It's exciting.

On your question, I like the hardware topics broken down as they are. The only change I would make is to maybe combine Audio/Video and Peripherals into one and add a seperate network forum.

Having added mjc to the moderator position is of course a top notch idea. I'll be anxious to see the rest of the upgrades!

Don't work to hard...

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Peace and Love, brothers and sisters. Peace and Love

[This message has been edited by Steve (edited 06-25-2002).]

[Pianorak]

Hi ixl -

I too would like the hardware topics to continue to be broken down as at present.

If you could add a "Security" forum dealing with virus alerts etc. I for one would be deliriously happy. Admittedly there is always The Register to consult, but . . . http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif


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God, make me the person my dog thinks I am!

[ixl]

Thanks for the replies so far.

With respect to the networking forum: there will definitely be one. In fact I am wondering: would it be viewed as preferable to have several forums grouped under Networking? For example, a topic for LAN, one for Internet Access, Wireless, and then Security/Virus stuff such as Pianorak suggested?

Extra forums don't cost extra, if you guys want them. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
Charles M. Kozierok
Webslave, The PC Guide (http://www.PCGuide.com)
Comprehensive PC Reference, Troubleshooting, Optimization and Buyer's Guides...
Note: Please reply to my forum postings here on the forums. Thanks.

[YODA74]

YES that would be the best way even on other sections to break them down Like Os's
Even a nice Modding section would be nice
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PUSH TO TEST. RELEASE TO DETONATE.
[Closed captioned for the thinking impaired.]

[This message has been edited by YODA74 (edited 06-25-2002).]

[jabarnutcase]

I Like the idea http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif (Several forums grouped under networking)
I think the networking topics would help sort out and organize a lot of post that, presently, end up in ANY one of the existing forums.

OK- I'll shut up now, two posts are enough http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"The perfect computer has been developed. You just feed in your problems and they never come out again"

[Ghost_Hacker]

Now that would be cool if we could get that break down under the networking forum http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif


edit Well, darn...I picked the wrong "thumb" should have been a "thumbs up".

Teach me to get fancy. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Ghost_Hacker (edited 06-25-2002).]

[Steve]

Yup. Breaking down the network stuff would probably be a good idea. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

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Peace and Love, brothers and sisters. Peace and Love

[kfh]

Hi All,

If it ain't broke don't fixit.
http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
kfh.


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-------
Sequitur Patrem Non Passibus Aequis

[Vic 970]

Hi ixl

a tab bar across the top (always on top) so you can go to anywhere from anywhere.

improved search facility.

automatic notification to any topic replied too (as well as topic started)
either at the bottom of the reply (as in the start topic) or as an option in members profile.

extention to 'Todays Topics' ie: Last 2 days, Last weeks. (Helps catch up if you miss a day or two http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif )


http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

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for every question there's an answer. Then a load more questions.
Definition of Upgrade "A means of introducing new bugs to a program to replace the ones that you have eventually found fixes for"

Regards..,
Vic.

REVI (http://www.revi.co.uk)

[mjc]

Vic,

Two of your four are definites....especially the search function. One of the major selling points of the new software is its search function.

Not exactly a tab bar but a clickable location bar is included, so you can always go back a level or so, just by clicking it.

The automatic notification is taken care of by a pretty useful subscription feature, that you can set for just about any number of days, it is for both threads and forums.

Actually I guess that covers all 4! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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mjc
Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.


Please Post Questions in the forums, not my email. Thanks

[Vic 970]

Thanks MJC. you're making a big impression already, http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

That's me Happy anyway/... http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
for every question there's an answer. Then a load more questions.
Definition of Upgrade "A means of introducing new bugs to a program to replace the ones that you have eventually found fixes for"

Regards..,
Vic.

REVI (http://www.revi.co.uk)

[buck52]

Howdy

This site seems to work well as it is however I wiil say
a seperate networking area would be cool and locking the
announcement section until it is needed or change the way
they are made completely seems like a good idea.

I hope this is not inappropriate to post a link to another site but Here (http://discussions.virtualdr.com/?action=intro&BypassCookie=true) is a site that just recently changed to vB software.( for anyone that wants to see what it offers.)

Many probably already know of it but for those that might not I thought I would post it

BTW congrats to mjc http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

buck

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just hav'n fun

[This message has been edited by buck52 (edited 06-25-2002).]

[rahulkothari]

First of all, CONGRATULATIONS to mjc for his new position.

>>> I think, networking forum shouldn't be broken up into various sections, as browsing back and forth becomes a tedious task instead while posting, keep an option which lets users select the type of category (lan,etc)that the post is of..... i mean, in place of Message Icon, you may keep Message Type and instead of icons, simply keep various categories like LAN, etc. and the same will be displayed along with the message title.

>>> One more thing, i think someone did suggest this one before few months ... in case of long posts (more than 10 replies), segregate the entire post into parts. this type of sys is followed at http://forums.techguy.org/ this way pages will load faster.

>>> In case of duplicate or double posts, delete both of them, and send an email notification to the concerned user that your post has been deleted and you will have to post again in the APPROPRIATE category. Kindly bar the newbies (less than 20 posts).

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An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
-Mahatma Gandhi

[mjc]

rahulkothari,

ummmm.....

Kindly bar the newbies (less than 20 posts)


Then how can they get more than 20 posts?

I think the primary mission of this site is to help those people that need help with computer problems, and most often the will be "newbies", not only to this forum and the internet, but quite possibly to computers. Unlike many other tech sites/forums this place is, has, and most likely, always will be for the "newbie".

So what if they screw up and put something in the wrong place, that is what Pete and I are supposed to do, the vast majority of the work done moderating this site is cleaning up things...double posts, moving things to where they belong, etc, unlike the mods job on many other sites...preventing flame wars and the regulars from eating the newbies for lunch.

Yes, it would be very nice to not have to move things around or deal with a double post, but that is one of things that must be handled when dealing with people, in a way such as this forum, especially confused, frustrated people.

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mjc
Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.


Please Post Questions in the forums, not my email. Thanks

[bassman]

ALOOOHAAAA,
Congratulations MJC and well done IXL. Progress is unavoidable http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif
My suggestions would be, most definitely make the announcements forum locked to the public.
As for breaking specific topics into definitive catagories, I think that is an OK idea, but should be consistant throughout.
Example:

Networking
-LAN-
-Internet-
-Security-

Storage
-Hard drives-
-Diskettes/Tape Drives-
-CD Burners-

Hardware & Peripherals
-RAM-
-Expansion cards-
-Motherboards-
-USB Devices-
-Parellel Devices-

Or could you set up a header for each topic that stated plainly and simply what should be discussed in that topic.
Example:

--------------------------------------------------------------------
Hardware & Peripherals
In this section you can discuss issues about RAM, Expansion Cards, Motherboards, USB Devices, Parellel Devices, etc...
--------------------------------------------------------------------
This could cover several bases and help avoid jumping around. How ever you decide to lay it out, it should be consistant for all topics.

Can't wait to see the new face, and hopefuly soon I will find the time to be around more http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif

Thanks Charles http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/cool.gif

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Waiting patiently for the future to arrive.

Frank's Place (http://dreamwater.net/tech/frankscomp/)

[kayofcircles]

I just looked at buck's example of the vB..and am not impressed. Posts squashed, big ads. This fussy old lady is gonna need a carrot, please? I echo Vic's comment on extending the Today's section some. I would request maybe "the last 24 hours", or something similar because I am here in the mornings and so, if nothing has been posted on something since after midnight EDT, I don't see it on Today's. Just like I missed this one until just now.

As for sorting questions, I am not a newbie, but I sometimes can't be sure about "where" to stick a question. Hardware and software go pretty much hand in hand, you know? Long ago, TJay suggested "Hardware, Software, I don't know the difference, and Other"...and while I do know the difference, I rather like the "Other" idea. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

The only other thing that alarms me a bit is that I noticed when I was looking for another forum (for a question posted..not for me!) that I can't get "around" in several of them because they insist I install the Macromedia or whatever player. This vB stuff isn't gonna require that, right?

[This message has been edited by kayofcircles (edited 06-27-2002).]

[mjc]

Kay, try http://club.cdfreaks.com/ for a really good look at the vBulletin software in action.....one banner, just like here.

There is a feature that generates a list of the new posts since your last visit, so if you are gone for three days it will so you three days worth. Plus there are expanded notification features that will allow you to follow a specific topic or a whole forum, from the beginning or from a certain number of days. Greatly improved speed and capabilities on the search function...

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mjc
Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.


Please Post Questions in the forums, not my email. Thanks

[ixl]

Hi Kay,

Don't worry about the VirtualDr forums. The ads have nothing to do with the vBulletin software, they ae put there by the webmaster. I'm going to leave one ad at the top as it is now, no ads on the sides or bottom.

As for new posts, this software has another feature: it keeps track of everything that has changed since you last visited, and you can see all new threads across all forums with a single click - unless I am misunderstanding something.

Also, the vB does not require Macromedia Flash.


------------------
Charles M. Kozierok
Webslave, The PC Guide (http://www.PCGuide.com)
Comprehensive PC Reference, Troubleshooting, Optimization and Buyer's Guides...
Note: Please reply to my forum postings here on the forums. Thanks.

[mjc]

Kay,

I bet I know why you keep getting the request to install macromedia Flash, one of the ads on VirtualDR could be a Flash ad...

------------------
mjc
Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.


Please Post Questions in the forums, not my email. Thanks

[This message has been edited by mjc (edited 06-27-2002).]

[BigBlue66]

Sorry if this has already been mentioned above; too busy to read all the posts, but:

1) I like the categories as they are now.

2) I would like to see a "Case and Cooling" and/or a "Case Modding" section.

3) Also, a "Processor" section.

4) And, I would like to see the posts organized by page numbers, so that a person could choose whichever page they wanted to start reading on, whether it's the last page or the middle page.

Cheers,

BB 66

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This space reserved for highly intelligent observations and witty remarks.

This message has not been edited by BigBlue66.

[ErnieK]

Hi ixl
The forums at present are well laid out, but as you are asking for ideas about possible improvements:

Hardware - This is just fine the way it is, and is easy to navigate. The present way allows each individual to choose his/her own preferences. It also means thgat for those on a slow connection they do not have to download a possibly large page.

Software - Again this is easy to navigate, so best left alone. One possible insert here could be a setion on BROWSERS

Operating System - I would like to see this, if possible, broken down into seperate OS's (Win9x - WinXp - Lynux etc.) With if possible sepeprate - easy identifiable links of some sort.

Announcements and Suggestions forums could be locked of from the users.

Otherwise it is almost perfect. And as nothing can be perfect you have achieved the highest standard possible to date.
No matter what you(s) decide to do I know that it will be of the same high standard http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif



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Ernie

[buck52]

Howdy Kay

The site I linked to was probably not the best one to post but it does
show what the vB software can do... however The sites mjc and rahulkothari
posted are much better ones to look at.

The one rahulkothari posted has been tweaked quite a lot by the webmaster

As a note to ixl, Pete, and mjc..not sure what happened but when they changed over at VDr there were quite a few lost usernames and passwords as well as post counts...Not sure if there is anything that can be done ahead to prevent that happening here

buck

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just hav'n fun

[yawningdog]

Could we please have a programming forum?

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Linux- Because you wouldn't buy a car with the hood welded shut, why should your O.S. be different?

[kayofcircles]

Please remember that I didn't actually join the 20th century until it was almost over..lol..and now have to be nudged into the 21st. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Actually, mjc , I rather like the "Newbie" category in your example..that might not be such a bad idea.

Hey http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif.. ixl , if you look at the TechGuy forum that rahulkothari posted above, there's a button that says you can turn off the ads, and then says that if one donates $20 or more per year (a year, so not unreasonable), one doesn't have to view any more ads. That's just over a dollar a month..and pretty sure our regulars would all go for that..and would help you with the site costs. ????

Only one small "sniff"..am I gonna lose my little icons? I was just admiring my little puter on the end yesterday.. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif..and checking my "masters" to see if there were any icons past the little puter. In one of the forums, it just had "Senior member"...blech..like my icons better!

[ixl]

Originally posted by kayofcircles:

Hey http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif.. ixl , if you look at the TechGuy forum that rahulkothari posted above, there's a button that says you can turn off the ads, and then says that if one donates $20 or more per year (a year, so not unreasonable), one doesn't have to view any more ads. That's just over a dollar a month..and pretty sure our regulars would all go for that..and would help you with the site costs. ????

I'm not sure how they have implemented that. I would bet that it would necessitate some custom coding. I could probably figure out a way to do it if there really is enough interest, but I don't think there is. I draw this conclusion based on the Tip Jar, which so far has consisted of a very small number of donations from a few generous people and not much else. So I am not sure there are enough people who want this to bother implementing it.

Am I wrong? We'll see. The new software also has a nice feature that can help us answer these things. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

Note that I'm not trying to "guilt" anyone into tipping -- honest. I'm just saying that I think most people would rather put up with an ad or two than cough up money for the site, which is fine.

Only one small "sniff"..am I gonna lose my little icons? I was just admiring my little puter on the end yesterday.. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif..and checking my "masters" to see if there were any icons past the little puter. In one of the forums, it just had "Senior member"...blech..like my icons better!

Our "geek" titles will remain; the icons will probably go. That was a custom hack I wrote when I must have been trying to avoid doing real work. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif They also seem to cause some degree of difficulty for certain browsers and represent extra load on the server so I am not sure I will bother hacking them back in...

------------------
Charles M. Kozierok
Webslave, The PC Guide (http://www.PCGuide.com)
Comprehensive PC Reference, Troubleshooting, Optimization and Buyer's Guides...
Note: Please reply to my forum postings here on the forums. Thanks.

[This message has been edited by ixl (edited 06-28-2002).]

[rahulkothari]

hey mjc, i read your 'reply' to my double-post comment. You are right, this place IS for newbies.

kay suggested something about donation. It would be very good if one can get rid of ads by paying some $20. I have a question, i dunno whether its right or not to ask it here publicly, but i am dying to know the answer....
Question:- how can you AFFORD to keep this site free ? coz frankly speaking, i have never ever clicked on any of the advt displayed on this site... and i think not many people click enough advt that lets this site remain free.

>>> can we have animated smilie icons? they look real cute. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif
>>> text of different colours and sizes?

and finally can we completely do away with 'message icon'? They are useless. Ofcourse my this suggestion does contradict with my previous one, but that one was ONLY for preventing different sections on networking.



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An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
-Mahatma Gandhi

[kayofcircles]

I don't think it's so much about "interest" as about "awareness." I honestly have NO idea how much a website costs in terms of operating expense. I don't even really think about that when I go surfing..you know? And I love the "freely exchanging ideas and knowledge" that we do here..so agree that we don't want to mess with that part...especially for the ones who are just coming in for some occasional puter help. But I do think that a lot of our regulars come here to learn, and for the satisfaction one gets being able to help someone else, and for the sheer enjoyment of sharing...and many of those regulars may have missed the posts regarding site funding. And some of us are just getting a bit forgetful...you know?..and need a bit of reminding. If the ad blocker idea is too difficult to implement or awkward, it still might be a good idea to think of some way to "remind" people of this issue. Unfortunately, I don't have any suggestions on how to do that, but will think on it some.

[Pianorak]

The yellow “New Posts since your Last Visit” lights come on as soon as I log onto the PC Guide. However, I often get sidetracked and click on a hyperlink. Now, as soon as I return to the forum ALL the yellow lights and red markers have gone off and I no longer know what the “new posts” are which is rather irritating. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/mad.gif
I am just wondering if anything can be done about that once the new software has gone operational. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/confused.gif


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God, make me the person my dog thinks I am!

[skhips]

Just a quick very big thank you for what you provide us, it is much appreciated.

I like the Networking suggestions how about and I know its no where nearas important but a gaming forum, a bit of light relief like your after hours forum.

It would also allow newbies who may be a bit worried about technical posts to post queries on games, keep them intrested in the forum and allow them to take baby steps into the tech forums and we are all kids at heart.

I think the site is excellent and one of the main things that makes the site what it is is the friendliness and control of people going out of control, ruled farily but firmly.

What about a link to a recommended supply of pc components and maybe use it as a source of revenue for the site, or a page of recommended links.

Just thoughts, again thaks a lot.

Kev

[RKBA]

One feature of certain BBS's, including vBulletin IIRC, is that if you have "Topic Tracking" enabled for a thread, it only sends ONE email notification per thread regardless of how many people post to the thread being tracked until you visit the thread (or forum), instead of sending out a new email every time anyone posts. I think this would be a GREAT improvement, and would cut down on the server load as well.

As for adding a bunch of new forums and sub-forums, I think it would just make things harder to find, and would make the site harder to navigate. Since vBulletin has an excellent search engine, it matters little whether or not you specifically know which forum to search in. But my biggest objection to having a plethora of different forums is that many computer problems cannot be isolated to one particular specific subsystem until after the problem has been solved!

A software forum however (and perhaps a Network forum), would be an excellent idea. The fact that I've been a computer programmer for 35+ years doesn't have anything to do with my opinion of course http://ron.dotson.org/pic/eyes.gif .

-- Ron

[This message has been edited by RKBA (edited 06-30-2002).]

[Nooyawkah]

Okay, I'm feeling stupid, I'll admit it. Have you just condensed the tech-help portions of the forum (how do I, how does this work) or have you eliminated them? Your tech help has been invaluable.:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[Paleo Pete]

How Does This Work and How Do I were always used as "catch all" forums, so they have been moved to an archive, so the older posts can still be read but no new ones can be posted.

Check in the drop-down box, or the front page, at the bottom of the list for those.

[Nooyawkah]

"Okay, I'm feeling stupid, I'll admit it. Have you just condensed the tech-help portions of the forum (how do I, how does this work) or have you eliminated them? Your tech help has been invaluable."

"How Does This Work and How Do I were always used as "catch all" forums, so they have been moved to an archive, so the older posts can still be read but no new ones can be posted.

Check in the drop-down box, or the front page, at the bottom of the list for those."

I told you I was dense. I'm still missing one point: I understand the "How To" posts are archived, but does that mean I cannot ask NEW tech help questions in the hardware forums? Am I limited to questions about buying and upgrading?

[ixl]

The "How" forums were axed because too many people came online with a question, saw those two and just posted there. They were too vague and thus a mess.

If you have questions, feel free to post them in the appropriate Hardware, Software, Networking or SIF forums -- you can see them all on the front page. For example, a flaky CD-ROM drive problem would go in Storage.