The Forums has changed...

[saphalline]

Recent events have made me realize that the attitude on the forums is different these days. Maybe it's the flood of new members or the flood of spammers. But whatever the case, I feel a shift.

I like helping people with their problems and finding solutions when possible. That was the basic intention of the forums when I started all those years ago. I no longer feel that this is necessarily the case, especially outside my little "zone" of expertise. It has gotten to the point where blood pressures rise and relaxation is no longer present. I always used to enjoy coming to the forums to relax and help others with no obligations of getting paid or even needing to be thanked. It was very stress-relieving. And I really felt like I was making a difference - saving people money, teaching them things, making them more self-reliant and confident in the face of error messages and blank screens. Now the forums gives me stress.

I'm taking a break for awhile. Probably time to get out and enjoy the weather anyway. Maybe I'll come back in a few months or so. We'll see.

~ saphalline

[PrntRhd]

Saphalline,
Sometimes we all have to step back for a bit from time to time to keep our minds clear. Your contributions are appreciated and would be missed, come back when you feel the time is right.
You cannot please all the members all the time, and you should not expect to do so either. The best we can do is to help each other when/where we can. If overdone, the help you give might make you feel sucked dry, and that is not healthy.

[Budfred]

I am sorry to hear that you are discouraged... I continue to find your assistance in the forum extremely helpful and always look for your responses when people ask about hardware issues... I used your recommendations to build the computer I am using now...

If you are still around, are you willing to say more about what the change is?? I am aware of the changes you mention with the SPAMming attacks and multiple trolls showing up... It seems like you are referring to more than that, but I am not sure from your comments... If it is in reference to how the site is being moderated, we discuss that often and I would appreciate any more feedback that you could add...

We have had a number of people who I believe are part of the personality of PC Guide walk away and I feel that loss as well... If you do the same, it will leave a big hole in the forum...

[Ajmukon]

you have taught me a lot about hardware and cleared many misconceptions i have had, and for that, i thank you

And i hope that you will return someday!-
We all need a break from time to time...

[azzey]

Saph, you've helped me out on numerous occasions... hopefully we'll see you around again soon.

I haven't been around for nearly as long as you guys, but I have also seen things change recently. I too have been taking a break over the past month. Previously I would check for new posts every couple hours or as often as possible... now I find myself popping by every three of four days.

Maybe I'll fall back into the swing of things once my Finals are over. We'll see.

[George Hallam]

see you saph, like others have said i have taken and used your advise now on many occasions and shared them. you will be missed around here and do come back one day.

in my eyes the post seem to become repetitive or pointless trolling and SPAM

[pop pop]

Wow. I guess I picked a weird time to become active in the forum again. On coming back, I don't sense much difference. The forum focus on most areas and threads is still helpful. The mods still do a great job. Spammers are a pain, but no ore so than usual.

One or two threads have become "contentious" but still civil. That's the nature of debate. Especially when one takes ownership of one's position.

Only Saphalline knows his motivation. If you indeed take a break, you will be missed. I, and I think others, considered you a hardware God and benefited greatly from your advice.

Chill out and laugh a little. Life is good...and too short to be taken too seriously.

[deddard]

Enjoy your break Saph. Your advice has always been appreciated here, and everyone will welcome you back when you're feeling up to it again.:)

[Jiggy]

What can I say, take care lad.

saph and his pipelines.

[jlreich]

You will definitely be missed. I learn something from just about every post you have made.

We all get burned out from time to time. Please come back when you are ready.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

If it was anything I said that was like salt in a wound, I apologize. I wasn't being personal about it.

The thread it seems you are annoyed about reads like you are defending Microsoft to the 'nth degree. If as you say you 'own' your copies of Vista, just what would you be able to do if MS gave up and pulled the plug on any support for it like they did for Millennium Edition? Absolutely NOTHING! :rolleyes:

Sure, we may be a bit overboard bashing MS'es newest OS but you have to realize here, that it's just the latest and greatest Piñata around! ;)

You'll be missed if you go, hope it isn't for long.

[sassie05]

Saphalline,
Come back soon!
From the beginning of my lurking around here, I have always enjoyed and respected your thorough knowledge and explanations. I have gained by you and the rest of the veterans of these forums. Thanks to all of you.
Cheers

[Rick]

Enjoy the spring weather.

Having done the same thing myself a number of times over the years
I can tell you it does help.

As always we agree to disagree

[jlreich]

it's just the latest and greatest Piñata around! ;)
Ain't that the truth! We have two favorites to bash around here. If it isn't MS it's Dell. :p MS just happens to be in the limelight right now.

[pop pop]

jlreich,

I've bashed M$ and Dell with the best of 'em. But I have to give Dell credit. Offering systems with Linux is a bold and risky step for a number of reasons. The wrath of M$, unkown or at least unclear sales potential, the fact that they are preconfiguring and verifying operation but offering no tech support on the software (although I've read they will subcontract out software technical support that consumers can purchase).

Anyway...our Dell and M$ bashing threads have almost always gotten contentious. It's kind of like discussing sex, religeon, or politics...not always a good idea.

[jlreich]

I certainly give Dell credit for making systems available with Ubuntu. That's one of the best things they have done in years. :cool:

[FrankSG]

Saphalline--I sure hate to see you leave. But, I understand your feelings and maybe it's good to take a break sometimes. I hope it's a short break. I've been a member of this group for a few years. It's a good group but sometimes people do get off base with their responses. Saph, I'm 76 years old, and if there's one thing I've learned it's that no matter how much you do and how well you do it, there will always be some who will rub you the wrong way. You will always find some flack that you have to deal with. Whether you come back or not, (and I hope you do) know that you have been a great help to a lot of people including me.
~Frank~

[Paul Komski]

Well despite the "taking a break" suffix - the originating post has the whiff of a valedictory.

I have empathy with "I feel a shift" and also feel that the forums don't have the same focus or, for want of a better epithet, the same "community spirit" that from my standpoint was what once made this a particularly special place.

A lot of really good people (both good technically and good as friendly members) have slid away. Maybe they would have done so regardless. Who knows.

It's Charles's site and at the end of the day only he can really influence matters and content. There was a time when he showed a much greater active presence but since delegating to a bigger band of moderators I think the tenure of the forums did change from being more liberal (maybe more long-winded flames did take place but they were usually resolved in the end) to being more intolerant and officious. The early focus was also much more hardware and DIY build orientated - which was the original honey-pot for me.

Make no bones about it, I have stuck around here purely for reasons of self interest - but have often vacillated over "taking a break" as well. For a long time now I have deliberately tried to avoid being personal in any way because that is what seems most likely to generate friction. It also means keeping up a certain reserve that isn't in the spirit of community.

One final point while soap-boxing on this thread is that I hope I have always held my hands up and acknowledged my mistakes - that has always been my intent in any case. The infallibility of many never ceases to amaze me.

Enough already.

[classicsoftware]

I have thought a great deal about this. I think the main reason the forums are not the same as they used to be or as we remember them is we are busier now then ever before.

The number of posts is way up. Look at this thread from Paleo Pete describing how he is amazed we had 12,000 members (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=26599&highlight=Record+number+members) in December of 2003. Now we have 29,000 members.

I also think the spammers and trolls have made us appear harsh at times. Maybe we would be better off at 12,000 members, but I don't see that happening.

I think whenever you see a community grow in size like this, you loose some of the closeness you are used to. That's 150% in 3.5 years or more like or 43% per year. While spammers may have inflated the number a little, it is still huge growth.

If you build it, they will come as the movie line goes. Well we built it and they came.

I also think Saphalline has his own personal issues. I wish he would have communicated them to us via PM. I really haven't seen a knock down drag out fight in a long time. Having been involved in a few of them, I actually see less of them than I did in the past. His expertise in hardware will be greatly missed.

This is still a great place and we have some new contributing members.

[Paul Komski]

it is still huge growth
Play with stats by all means but it is only real growth if the members are still active.

Most users ever online was 1,613, 05-07-2006 at 01:04 PM could paint a different picture.

[FrankSG]

Here's the problem' It's not only in this forum but everywhere; in marriages, in committee meetings, in discussions of political views; religious views, in any kind of negotiations or discussion of different opinions: To many times we put our mouth in gear before we engage our brain. I've always told our kids, it's not so much what you say but how you say it. We have got to learn to be more tactful; more diplomatic; more sensitive to the other persons feelings. I see too often where someone wants to make a point--a good legitimate point, but the other persons feelings are not taken into consideration. We have got to respond to others the way we would like to be responded to. I've got to say that generally I think it's pretty good on this forum. But, yes, sometimes remarks are made that hurts ones feelings. It's sad because a persons point can still be made without being offensive. Well--that's my feelings anyway.
~Frank~

[PrntRhd]

The one thing that helps keep forums alive and kicking butt is members helping other members, not moderators answering all the queries, not the structure/rules of the forums, not the software.
Caring enough to help others with their issues learning/giving back is the essence of the forums.

[LadyGrey]

OH Saph, please, either don't go or if you must, come back soon! You have now idea what you have done to help me. The mod I have for Oblivion I don't know what I'd do with out! I've gotten so spoiled with it, I'm really enjoying the game instead of saying naughty words all the time! And to think I'm one of only a few who have it! I wouldn't have the lazer mouse I have if not for you, best thing in the world I've done, I don't think I would have been near as happy coming from a track ball with anything other than what you told me you thought would be the best for me, although I do manage to still run it right off the desk and on to the floor, but that's just old LG:D . Saph we do help, we do make a difference, don't you see, that's why all these people keep coming here. I try with my limited knowledge but I always defer to my "guru's" of which you are one dear. Any time I see gamer questions posted, if I know something about the game I answer but I do believe that I've always said to wait for Saph, he'll know what to do. Any way, I know I'm being selfish but we really do need you and you will be so very missed.
Hugs,
LG:(

[essayons]

Saphalline,
I hope your time away is refreshing - people like you, who are willing to help others simply because that's the way you are, are becoming harder to find these days. Like many here have already said, a little time away from a point of stress can do wonders, and I hope this is true for you.
In all the online forums - as well as real-life organizations - I've ever been a part of, there is a noticeable "rhythm" (for lack of a better term) that I've noticed - times when there is a surge of activity, other times when it looks like things are winding down to a less-than-glorious end - and times when the quality of membership or activity has declined to the point where bailing seems a reasonable option. Some organizations have come to an end, and some have been ''resurrected' - I'm by no means any more than an observer, but it seems to me that quality will win out over time, provided enough quality membership remains - be it in the background or not. The base elements of any group will eventually look for 'greener pastures' to sully once they get bored with where they are. The people who don't become bored with where they are or what they are doing - they will remain, and be bolstered by other 'newcomers' who share the same passion.
I definitely haven't been very active in this forum - except when I had a problem. I know enough to know that I don't know as much as many here, so I tend not to look for problems I can help with because I usually come up empty. The few times I have been able to answer a question - and had the opportunity to do so before someone else had - I have done so. But like I said, my membership here has overwhelmingly tended to be on the 'looking for help' end - and I must say I have never, ever come away from here without a deep appreciation for the folks here who know so much and share so much. I'd love to have the depth of knowledge that you folks do, but for me the learning curve is always noticeably behind the technology curve. But once again, Saphalline - thanks so much for all the help you've given me over the past few years since I started haunting these boards - and I hope to see you around again soon!

[Variable]

Saphaline, never argue with zealots. At least, not for more than a couple posts :p

Logic and sound reasoning based on real world experiences is often meaningless for far too many people. Ignore the mental lightweights. They are not worth raising your blood pressure. If there is a thread that gets full of opinion, I simply read the replies of those posters that have proven to be intelligent in the past, the rest I don't even bother to look at, let alone read. Simply ignore the posts. They are not worth your time.

[DigitalTechland]

''Life is one big road with lots of signs, so when you're riding through the ruts don't complicate your mind,flee from hate,mischief and jealousy, don't bury your thoughts put your vision to reality, wake up and live''

Bob Marley

[Paul Komski]

Nice quote.

[Sylvander]

Nice one; I like it. :cool: :D

[smith04]

Saph, I have gotten a lot out of PCG, and much of that credit goes to you. When I posted a questions, I would always look for your reply. You gave good advice and did it in an understandable way. Thanks much.

smith04

[alternate]

Recent events have made me realize that the attitude on the forums is different these days. Maybe it's the flood of new members or the flood of spammers. But whatever the case, I feel a shift.

...I always used to enjoy coming to the forums to relax and help others with no obligations of getting paid or even needing to be thanked. It was very stress-relieving. And I really felt like I was making a difference - saving people money, teaching them things, making them more self-reliant and confident in the face of error messages and blank screens. Now the forums gives me stress.

I'm taking a break for awhile. Probably time to get out and enjoy the weather anyway. Maybe I'll come back in a few months or so. We'll see.

~ saphalline

What does he mean by spammers? I hope I've not been a spammer. I know I posted quite frequently in the first two months of my membership, as I started out knowing nothing and had too many questions.

I've also wondered why the veteran members come to this site regularly to answer people's questions. I think it takes a certain 'flavor' of individuals to spend so much of their time here to answer people's questions for free. I would say that this flavor is strange to culture in the US which I think is often rooted in cynicism or disguised hatred for various features of the world. The long-time members aren't necessarily all this flavor, as apparently the forum started out with a different tone. I'm quite grateful for how I have benefited enormously from the help of everyone here, but I feel like people should be paid to assist at a forum like this and enjoy it as a job. I frankly feel this site has a tone not entirely different from Corsair's forum where the RAMguy gets paid to be. Of course, I mean to include that the tone is different on the moderating side. I guess I just mean to say that despite how much i've benefited, I feel like I've taken and not been able reciprocate in like proactivity, as how can I? The moderators have a strange respect from me, but I don't consider this reciprocation. I guess I mean to say capitalism makes sense to me. And to be honest, I chose my name 'alternate' because of my wish at the start of this to remain as anonymous as possible... I can consider it my lack of love for people on the internet to choose a name like this if not my cynicism for people on the internet; as I said, getting responses on this site caught me by surprise.

If I were a moderator, then I would take a break as freely as I want to. Unfortunately, that past sentence makes it seem like he has a job here. I have to attribute much to Saphalline in the beginning my latest build with the mobo ASUS P5NT WS, which is nice. A part of my personal philosophy is that the self's desires are no less important the the next person's. Saph would rather go out and rollerblade and not sit in front of the computer and feel obligated to people who come to take (not to demean the guests here such as me, but we do come to take.)

So, all I can do is say thanks to Saphalline and to everyone here.:D ;) :p :rolleyes: :)

[jlreich]

I've also wondered why the veteran members come to this site regularly to answer people's questions. I think it takes a certain 'flavor' of individuals to spend so much of their time here to answer people's questions for free.
The wonderful thing about this forum or any other is it is a community. We help each other. We all started out knowing nothing about computers. Many of us including myself came here knowing very little and have learned a great deal by coming here often. However many I have helped to solve a problem or make an informed buying decision or learn something I am still in debt to this forum for the amount I have learned from being here. ;)

Even some of the most knowledgeable members can't know everything about computers. If you look you will see some of our top gurus asking for advice about something they don't necessarily know as much about as they do other topics.

Most of those that come here asking questions will eventually come to able to help as well. Those that come and get the answer to their problem and never return are fine as well, it isn't required. Some just like to hang out and learn, that's fine too.

This is the spirit of the PC Guide forums. And the reason why I come here everyday. :)

[FrankSG]

The wonderful thing about this forum or any other is it is a community. We help each other.
This is the spirit of the PC Guide forums. And the reason why I come here everyday. :)

That's right. I feel like I know some of the people here even thought I have never met them. I have gotten a lot of help here. I don't answer too many questions since there are a lot of members who know so much more that I. Occasionally I've been able to help someone. I feel pretty good about it when I do--a little like I'm contributing something. Maybe I shouldn't say this but I'm going to say it anyway. For those of us such as myself who get more of of it than they pit in, a little bit in the tip-jar would be a good idea. OK----so I said it.

[Budfred]

People who come here to ask questions or to answer them are not SPAMmers... People who come here to steal, scam, advertise and otherwise take advantage of the forum are SPAMmers and are not tolerated... If you were a SPAMmer, you wouldn't still be here...

[Fruss Tray Ted]

Here's where I'm coming from, I appreciate ENTIRELY the 'techknowledgey' offered here, but there comes a time, and or place, where a line needs to be drawn.

I find it:
HERE (http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/06/doctor_urges_am.html)

If I had difficulty passing gas, it's not that I'd like assistance. I don't need any help knowing what is wrong. It's more towards the fact that I'd like a bit of anonymity due to embarrassment!@$%^&