Quickest way to move files from old hdd to new [Archive]

malcore

07-10-2007, 11:16 PM

I know that I can boot into safemode as admin and go through each folder/file/subfile....and take ownership but that will take forever lol.

Not necassarily so...You could just take ownership of the entire drive (assuming it is no longer used as a system drive and the previous Windows install is not required anymore). Or take ownership of the partition(s) holding the required files/folders. Just make sure to put a check in the box next to "Replace owner on subcontainer and objects" and give yourself the proper permissions.

Paul Komski

07-11-2007, 04:51 AM

It isn't automatic that all files and folders will need ownership retaken; it mostly applies to certain user files/folders. Also, if Knoppix can copy them and then paste them back to a FAT partition any such ownership issues would be overcome.

gracious

07-11-2007, 11:35 AM

I tried taking ownership of the drive, that didn't work. I then went into the drive and selected folders and tried to take ownership of these (checking subcontainers/objects) and some of the files within some of the folders still won't open. I must have missed something? I have read also to uncheck the "simple file sharing", but I don't see that anywhere.

I was wondering, what if I hooked it up as part of the network we have at home, shouldn't I be able to access it this way?

Paul Komski

07-11-2007, 05:11 PM

Simple file sharing (http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/xp/filesharing.htm) can only be changed/disabled under XP pro and is not the same issue as ownership. Only simple file sharing is used by XP home so it cannot be disabled.

Sharing folders relates to Network access since only shared folders should be potentially accessible via a network and then only when there is an OS running on both computers. A slaved drive runs only at the behest of and under the control of the operating system accessing it from the same computer - be it on a hard drive, floppy or CD. That operating system controls any network access so it should be able to access any files itself much easier than via a network to which it would need to start a conversation.

gracious

07-11-2007, 11:08 PM

Gotcha, so I just need to figure out what I am doing wrong in terms of taking ownership properly of the drive itself. In essence, if I properly take ownership of the drive, I should be able to access all folders and subfolders, correct?

Paul Komski

07-12-2007, 04:45 PM

Taking ownership is stage one. Having ownership doesn't mean that you yet have all permissions, which is stage two. Owners and Administrators can of course grant themselves (or others) full permissions.

In your situation I would grant ownership to Adminstrators and then grant full permissions to Administrators. Set it on a top level directory or drive, uncheck inherit from parent and check the box for containers to inherit.

Another potential problem rears its head if there is any file encryption in place since only those users with digital certificates in the system will be able to decrypt and access the files. Names don't matter here it is the names' SIDs that are important in identifying who is who.

PS I think that some SYSTEM files can waive being owned by anyone else but I'm not sure of this and anyway they are not usually file whose data one wants to access.

If that fails try Knoppix or Ubuntu Live CD and use a FAT partition as intermediary since these extended attributes are lost on a FAT partition.

gracious

07-13-2007, 08:54 AM

What a nightmare. :mad: I have been struggling to get my XP home puter to see the XP pro puter and it doesn't work although my XP pro can see the XP home but I still can't access the drive on the XP home. It keeps telling me that I do not have rights bla bla bla...:confused: I have tried everything lol. I guess I am going to just have to use my flash drive and do it the hard way. :rolleyes: I even tried using the Files and Settings transfer wizard, starting with the XP home pc first, making a wizard floppy to use on the old XP pro, but home networking is greyed out on the XP pro, when I try to use it.

Paul Komski

07-13-2007, 09:13 AM

gracious

07-13-2007, 04:49 PM

Up till now we have been proceeding on the basis of two hard drives attached as master and slave in one PC. Networking is a different kettle of fish and the whole of the drive on the client would need to be shared if everything on it was to be made available to the host - in addition to having the correct access to files and folders. All other networking (computer names, workgroups, subnet, DHCP, etc) would also have to be correctly configured and any firewalls, if in existence, best disabled..

In a nutshell, a pain in the watoosi!:D

I couldn't get the master to access all of the files on the slave. I tried to make sure that I received FULL rights and OWNERSHIP of the slave drive itself (in this case d: ) but still kept getting the unauthorized access errors. Some files were accessible, others were not even though I took full rights and ownership of the drive. Very confusing.:confused:

Oh well, maybe if I had the energy and time I would tinker with it more. When I tried networking, I went everywhere on XP Pro and did all the network tweaks that I could think of, disabling simple file sharing, went into local security... tried to set up the same user accounts on both drives with a common shared file, couldn't even do that....I do appreciate the necessity of having such securities in place considering that most XP Pro's are in a work environment.

I at least got my mailwasher and outlook up and running via the usb flash so that at least is a start. :p

I wouldn't have had to do all this but I am suspecting that the mobo that the XP Pro is on is dying and everyday it is getting flakier and flakier. Memory tests just fine as well as the hdd, psu is fine, do not see jumping temperatures, cpu seems fine as well.

Thank you Paul for all of your knowledge and saavy. ;)

classicsoftware

07-13-2007, 07:41 PM

gracious

07-16-2007, 09:29 AM

This is real simple.

Turn off both PC's
Open the case and remove the hard drive from the "old" pc.
Open the case of the new PC and remove the power cable and the ribbon cable from the CD-ROM (Usually) the secondary master.
Attach the ribbon cable and power cable from the secondary master IDE channel to the "old" drive
Power the system up
Check in my computer to see if the drive is visible.
Copy the files, taking ownership if needed.
Power the system down.
Remove the old drive.
Attach the ribbon and power cables from the "old" drive and attach them to the CD-ROM if needed.
Close case
re-boot
done
Have a beer Well I don't drink so instead I had a frappuccino!!!:D

Ok, so Classic you encouraged me to try again but this time I did set it up as a secondary master as suggested. Although I took ownership and full rights to the secondary hdd, I still had to take ownership/rights of each folder but it was a lot quicker than using my flash to transfer data. The older puter didn't have the ability to use the fast flash usb so it probably would have taken forever.

Anywho, I have everything transferred over and I thank you for all of your wonderful assistance!!! (as usual :D )

classicsoftware

07-17-2007, 01:05 AM

Now that you have done that, get yourself a USB drib enclosure, like this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817113012) and a copy of Second Copy 7. (http://www.centered.com/)

You now have a reliable backup hard drive....

gracious

07-17-2007, 01:20 AM

Oh kewl, another toy to get. So essentially is this like the old Microsolution's BackPack but it stays attached 24/7?

So if I have to transfer data again (God forbid!) how does this work? What does it mean when it says "Fitting for CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW, DVD-ROM, DVD-RAM & 3.5" Hard Drives"? I can choose what to save to?

Sorry about my ignorance, this is new territory for me:)

classicsoftware

07-17-2007, 01:30 AM

You would place the hard drive into the case and screw it in. You would attach the device to your system via USB.

Then using the software, you would program the software to backup your data:

Images
Movies
Music
Word documents, spread sheets, etc

every night at lest say 4AM. You can also program it to keep up to 5 copies of a file. You always have a current backup of your important files...

gracious

07-17-2007, 01:50 AM

so I take another hdd and enclose it and hook it up via my USB and it backs up my non system files. Do I have to be concerned with whether or not it is compatible with my usb chipset and does the pc have to be on to do the back ups? Very interesting. Do I have to use a new hdd? Will I have to partition/format?

classicsoftware

07-17-2007, 02:14 AM

You can use any drive, but I would use the old one as you have to anyway. I would partition and re-format once the data is reliable on the new drive....

the PC would need to be on....

gracious

07-17-2007, 02:18 AM

Thank you classicsoftware, what a timesaver this will be. I will be getting one.
So I do not need to be concerned with any specs or anything correct?

Paul Komski

07-17-2007, 04:07 AM

gracious

07-17-2007, 12:50 PM

Thank you Paul. I will check into that as well. Ok, so I just need to get one, I guess USB seems to be the cheapest way to go, and I am assuming there will be a driver's disk to make sure it communicates with the pc/usb. Does it not come with any software of its own?

Paul Komski

07-17-2007, 06:24 PM

I am assuming there will be a driver's disk to make sure it communicates with the pc/usbOnly needed for Win98. After that USB support for such drives is native to the OS and no drivers should be necessary.

classicsoftware

07-17-2007, 09:45 PM

Software-wise - if you want to save yourself $30 for Second Copy then maybe try out Cobian (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=188619) a most useful free backup software brought to our attention by Hagar.

They are not the same and Cobian does not have the feature set that Second Copay has. If you just want a vanilla program, go with Cobian.

Paul Komski

07-18-2007, 02:49 AM

They are not the same and Cobian does not have the feature set that Second Copay has. If you just want a vanilla program, go with Cobian.
Didn't say or intend to imply they are the same though there is very little (apart from synchronisation with its own attendent problems) that Second Copy can do that Cobian cannot.

If the term vanilla was used to mean open source then I would take that as an extra bonus.

We all like different things in software and another very good backup software is SyncBack (http://www.2brightsparks.com/syncback/syncback-hub.html) of which there are both free and retail editions.

For "ultra-cheap and simple" repetitive tasks just coping the same files from A to B one can use a batch program and that is all a lot of ordinary users in fact require.

Sylvander

07-18-2007, 04:51 AM

I'm using the [FREE] version of SyncBack and like it a lot.

I have all my data files off C: and held on...

D: = personal data [emails, address book, Firefox Profile, My Documents etc]

E: = Music plus.

F: Images [photos, video]

Use SyncBack to make 2nd copies of partitions C: D: E: F: "sources" to "destinations" on USB devices.
1 GB D: to 1 GB H: USB Flash Drive.
C: E: F: to O: on USB HDD.

When a "profile" is scanned all "differences" [if any, between source & destination] are displayed in a window.
Detailed configuration settings can be specified regarding what to do with particular differences.
e.g. [I typically set these, but they could be different]
(a) If there are DIFFERENT copies on both the source and the destination...
Copy the source to the destination.
(b) If there are copies on the source, but not the destination....
Copy to the source to the destination.
(c) If there are copies on the destination, but not the source...
Delete the destination copies.

You can highlight any number of differences, then right-click and specify what should be done to these.
e.g.
Delete the file; exclude from future scans; ignore the difference.
This differences list can help keep you informed regarding what changes are taking place in the file system.
You would see file bloat if it were taking place.
Or vital files being eliminated.
Or the routine creation of new files.

classicsoftware

07-18-2007, 08:25 AM

The main feature I love is the ability to archive up to the last 5 versions of a file as it changes. This is especially true for people working on large word documents like term papers or legal briefs. The ability to go back three versions is very helpful.

By vanilla, I mean basic in it's feature set.

Paul Komski

07-18-2007, 09:03 AM

Personally I think Cobian has just about as rich a feature set as Second Copy and it too can save multiple versions of files.

A straightforward multiple file backup is a feature that I too particularly have uses for and am currently working on my own VB exe using Win32 APIs that will do such like for myself in a manner specifically customised for my own uses. The best app, IMHO, that did this in a seamless manner was the PowerQuest DataKeeper that used to bundle with Partition Magic but that version is no longer supported by Symantec and unfortunately stopped working after WinXP SP2. Why Symantec dropped it and now promote a horribly elaborate way of working with backups only they know.

It's also not that hard to write batch programs that will save multiple copies of files by simply renaming the older versions (as DataKeeper does) with a second file extension such as, xxx.foo, xxx.foo.001, xxx.foo.002, etc rather than overwrite the backup version.

SyncBack can be made to do differential backups but it places things in different folders rather than producing multiple versions of files in one destination folder, which I prefer. That is its only real flaw as far as I am concerned but apart from that it is very stable and particularly so with ftp backups in my experience.

PS
Forgot to add that for those that are into writing scripts and batch files and want to direct the output via a Windows GUI that I recently came across the Wizard's Apprentice (http://wizapp.sourceforge.net/). Have yet to try it but can see its functionality none-the-less.

gracious

07-18-2007, 09:11 AM

Syl~I noticed your Acerose in your attached image, just wanted to thank you again for clueing me in on that software. It is great. I think of you everytime I use it!! :D

Tee Hee I feel like I am running with some marathon runners who are already 10 miles ahead of me in regards to pc knowledge and I just got out of my driveway :D It is totally amazing to me the amount of combined knowledge that PC GUIDE has in its midst :)

I have been bouncing around on the net learning about external enclosures.
There seems to be a debate about whether or not chipset matters with regards to speed and that it is better to use firewire vs. usb for less cpu usage. Any thoughts on these? The drive that I will probably be using is not SATA, does that matter?

Paul Komski

07-18-2007, 09:29 AM

By vanilla, I mean basic in it's feature set.
Vanilla software seems to be a confusing term even to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanilla_software).

The term seems there to be more to do with customisability rather than plain-ness per se. Just one flavour of a program rather than many flavours (just look at Vista for flavours - he he). I love a bit of vanilla, especially in rice pudding, and don't think it plain at all. ;)

that it is better to use firewire vs. usb for less cpu usagePossibly (we would maybe need a Saphalline to answer this one) but USB2 is the dominant force in this area. Enclosures can also be obtained that use either and even eSATA into the bargain. Bang for buck and what seems to have taken over for now is USB. In any case it is likely to be the USB2 or Firewire bus that is the limiting factor in such data transfers.

The drive that I will probably be using is not SATA, does that matter?SATA is increasingly the future but IDE drives in enclosures are still the standard. Enclosures themselves should be obtainable for small money so the choice of which drive to put inside depends really on what hardware you would be most likely to use it on in the future if you take it out of its enclosure. I don't think it a real issue but I have yet to go for SATA in this area. If huge amounts of storage are not mandatory consider a 2.5" Drive (http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=380&name=Laptop-Hard-Drives) in a 2.5" external enclosure (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817145135) and you should be able to do away with carrying around or using a special power supply for the enclosure.

gracious

07-18-2007, 09:37 AM

and the chipset debate?

Sylvander

07-18-2007, 11:11 AM

1. "Syl~I noticed your Acerose in your attached image"
That's where I keep the auto-backups of the vault files [1 file on C: and 1 backup on D: for each vault (normally 1 vault for each user)].
Did you know that Acerose PV makes automatic backups of the vault files?
And that you can specify their home location to be anywhere you like?
[provided Windows can access it]
And that Acerose doesn't put any settings in the registry, therefore it is "portable"? [can be run from external (USB/firewire) devices]
Might be handy that, if you want to move between PC's.
You'd just run Acerose PV on any suitable PC, enter your name & password, then [for example] double-click on an entry to be taken to the CORRECT website.

2. When I use SyncBack to to backup D: to H:...
Those Acerose PV vault files' auto-backups are copied to H:
This could be vital because...
(a) If I were to use an image backup to restore C: & D: to an earlier time...
The vault files, and also the auto-backups of the vault files, would jump back and be out of date [lose vital new entries!] :( :mad:
(b) I'd need to be aware of that and copy the SyncBack backup versions to D: & C:
This would need to be done BEFORE the next run of SyncBack, or else the out-of-date version would be copied to H: [if not spotted & prevented!]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
(c) If I restored an image of C: alone...
I'd need to either copy the auto-backup of the vault files [on D:] to replace those on C: before ever I ran PV.
Or else...
Open all password vaults affected [only one?] and tell it to replace the vault file with the backup copy [from D:].
This would need to be done the FIRST time PV is run or else the out-of-date versions on C: would be auto-backup'd to D:

3. By doing something like the above, one is protected every which way from the loss of vital data held in the vaults.
You would be very forcibly reminded JUST HOW VITAL if ever you lost those.

gracious

07-19-2007, 12:37 AM

SATA is increasingly the future but IDE drives in enclosures are still the standard.
Great! TY Paul :)

I do see how having an enclosure would really save me alot of time and grief and to be able to save the data in so many different ways is awesome. I have backed up my PV onto a USB flash because I use it so much that I think I would just die if it got lost or I couldn't get it transferred properly. I haven't heard much about the keylogging issue but I am sure someone is still keylogging somewhere out there and it isn't going to be me they sneak up on!

Thank you guys for all of your info it is greatly appreciated!!! :p SMOOCH!!!

Paul Komski

07-19-2007, 02:33 AM

and the chipset debate?To be pedantic you presumably mean the interface debate of whether, quite simply, it is better or not to use Firewire versus USB.

In my, quite probably wrong view of things, the chipset is just one part of each interface and some use the term to simply mean the combination of the northbridge and the southbridge on the motherboard. Certainly the whole architecture of both interfaces is quite different and the way the northbridge and southbridge communicate with one another (particularly when using direct versus pci connection) can have an important impact on the performance of data transfers as a whole.

Such hardware niceties I often get wrong so I should really leave that to the specialists. The consensus seems to be that there is little to choose between the functionality of USB2 versus Firewire. It often crops up that Firewire is preferred for video editing per se but on another side it is interesting to note how many of the iPods have been migrating from Firewire (the Apple orientated bus) to USB (the Intel orientated bus).

Firewire provides a bit more power than USB so even less likely to need additional power adapters but it is not as widely found on PC systems and is possibly just an added expense.

Personally I would go with USB (if the only available choice on an enclosure) and have never seen or had the need to use Firewire at all.

gracious

07-20-2007, 12:20 AM

To be pedantic you presumably mean the interface debate of whether, quite simply, it is better or not to use Firewire versus USB.

I guess it is reference to the fact that some chipsets are incompatible with each other ( I guess with some hdds) and some chipsets do not support large drives over 137 GB and for dvd/cd/cdrw... enclosures, it can affect the ability to burn.

I don't know if it is the USB drivers (in Windows) that conflicts with the enclosures chipset...

I saw that they have SATA enclosures as well.

I guess I don't really need to worry about it since I am not going to be using a drive larger than 137GB and I am not going to be using a dvd/cd enclosure.

I see that there are also combo USB/Firewire enclosures, I might check that out.

I just have to figure out which one to get. With a fan, without a fan...

Paul Komski

07-20-2007, 05:13 AM

I think what you are referring to is the firmware on an EEPROM chip on the external's board rather than a "chipset", which is a term generally reserved on PCs for the combination of the northbridge and the southbridge; the controllers of how information is passed between the various motherboard components.

Such firmware (or ROM BIOS) should have no "conflicts" with the motherbard but is there to feed back information about the hardware and supplements the BIOS information on the motherboard itself. Just about every piece of hardware has such a chip. There will be one on the external and another on the HDD itself.

When it comes to hard drives and capacity thresholds then such BIOS on the hard drive's controller on the external's board are used to decipher the drive capacity and the hard drive controllers on the motherboard (which use the mobo's BIOS) don't come into play so there is no hardware conflict in that sense.

The USB drivers in Windows also have no conflicts with the USB related firmware on the external but without the drivers (which are native to the OS under WinME and later) there would be problems in communicating with the device at all.

Basically a modern enclosure will support large drives and the OS should have no problem recognising all of the capacity because the maths is all done by the firmware.

A fan is only really necessary if you are going to have the enclosure in an enclosed space. An aluminium case left in the open is most unlikely to overheat and the 2.5" drives barely get warm.

Sylvander

07-20-2007, 07:33 AM

My ViPowER [Smart Family] VP-9054V USB Enclosure (http://www.vipowershop.com/P_SmartFamily.php?id=165) [connects via a VP-9208 USB 2.0 Smart Cable (http://www.vipowershop.com/P_SmartFamily.php?id=139) and also comes supplied with its own power unit and there's a power on/off switch on the rear of the enclosure], has a small fan on the front behind the small grille.
The fan has always worked, but some time back it began to get noisy, so I slightly loosened the screws holding it to the casing and the noise ceased.

If I had a spare fan [which I don't] it would be easy to unplug the existing fan and connect its replacement.
I've got my fingers crossed that the fan doesn't fail before the housing does.
If it did I could just unplug it and work the casing without it; I'm pretty certain it wouldn't overheat even without a fan.
With the fan running, the casing gets slightly warm after 30 min or so of use.

The USB 2.0 Smart Cable is smart because it can be used to connect this enclosure or that.
If you want to use multiple enclosures simultaneously, you need as many cables as enclosures to be connected.
You might have 2 cables and 4 enclosures.

jlreich

07-20-2007, 09:29 AM

Here is another recommendation. I just bought this one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817171012) a couple of weeks ago and am impressed with it. Sturdy, standard USB cable, two port USB hub on the back, easy to install, one touch button that works with the supplied backup software (which I haven't tried yet), supports up to 500GB, looks good and the price is pretty decent. There was a $15 MIR when I bought it, but not anymore unfortunately. But I would buy another even at regular price. :)

There is no fan but the drive seems to stay fairly cool with the enclosure being made from aluminum and having a mesh side. It also has a large thermal pad (not sticky) that helps dissipate heat on the solid side of the enclosure. I have a 250GB Seagate in it that's been running 24/7.

gracious

07-20-2007, 12:08 PM

Thank you Jlreich! Definitely alot of choices out there.

I think what you are referring to is the firmware on an EEPROM chip on the external's board rather than a "chipset", which is a term generally reserved on PCs for the combination of the northbridge and the southbridge; the controllers of how information is passed between the various motherboard components.

Paul~here is the link to the site where they have a thread on external enclosures and if you scroll down to #5 on the list, there is mention of chipsets. http://www.fatwallet.com/t/28/496281/
Please remove the link if I have violated a PC Guide rule, wasn't sure.:eek:

Anywho, like I said, it probably won't affect me as I just want to do a simple backup, but it is nice to know in case I get asked by somebody else. :)

Paul Komski

07-20-2007, 01:04 PM

There is absolutely no problem in linking to other sites for information and quotational purposes; it is part and parcel of normal and good forum practice. The mods will only object if the material itself is objectionable, purely self-promotional or spam, and so on.

It never pays to be too pedantic but it was unclear just which "debate" you were referring to. I have tended to use chipset in the way it is described on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chipset) but acknowledge that any collection of chips can be considered a chipset.

The particular quote is some two years old, when the 48bitLBA issue was coming on-line more and more. It shouldn't be an issue with modern external drive hardware nor a problem with Win2K or WinXP or above (http://www.48bitlba.com/usbharddrives.htm) for USB hard drives that are not to be tried as boot drives (from a mobo without 48bit LBA) and which are not to be partitioned from DOS without special drivers or appropriate support.

I agree that the chipset on the host (particularly on the motherboard) is important and may well be the defining factor as to performance but on the client side as long as you have 48bitLBA support there is little else to concern one for USB. Even the limitation for USB opticals is stated as "USB2.0 usually is only fast enough for 12X".

The jury is out and people differ on whether USB2 or Firewire400 is the better interface but usually when this is the case there really is little to choose between them. I have never used Firewire800 so cannot comment.

If performance is really the premium issue then I would be looking at eSATA as long as one had a card or mobo that supported it as opposed to having a normal SATA drive inside the enclosure. Apart from that USB2 should be just fine but not much to lose in terms of additional cost to get an enclosure with both USB and Firewire Ports.

gracious

07-21-2007, 08:52 AM

Paul I thank you so much!

The particular quote is some two years old, when the 48bitLBA issue was coming on-line more and more. It shouldn't be an issue with modern external drive hardware

In otherwords, just shutup and get a USB enclosue! :D

That's just me, it's not enough to know to just "push this button" to get something to go on, I have to know why it will go on if I push that button...tee hee...:p

Paul Komski

07-21-2007, 01:33 PM

That's just me, it's not enough to know to just "push this button" to get something to go onTotally my sentiments. I don't know about shutting up but going for USB means you will have a device with the best bang per buck and which should work on just about any PC shipped in recent years.

One other possibility (of particular value if you will be attaching a range of different drives externally) is to get a simple USB to IDE (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822999161) or USB to composite (http://www.bixnet.com/ustoidad.html) converter cable. If you shop around you can probably get better deals than these links got by googling.

gracious

07-23-2007, 09:36 AM

ooh, I like that, I might get both just so I can tinker with them. I was at work and I was standing outside and our landlord came out of his office with a small air compressor. He was headed for the dumpster and I said "hey, are you throwing that away?" and he said "yeah, it's froze up, doesn't work, used it at my beach house, think the salt messed it up" and so I said "oooh, give it to me so I can go home and tinker with it" and he said "you think you can get this going?" ....lol, heck you never know, Marvel Mystery Oil is great stuff for something like this, so now I have a mini air compressor to dive into and take apart, how exciting is that!:D