Computer Repair Services Put To Test. Call 3 Investigates

[sassie05]

Oh brother!

http://www.kcra.com/news/14644351/detail.html#

[PrntRhd]

<sigh>
I think that is called a "Dash for the Cash" repair.
I would not take a PC to any of them for repair.

[Budfred]

I particularly like that guarantee... You pay them about $300 or more for a problem that would take about 5 minutes to fix if they had done the reasonable assessment... You probably don't know enough about computers to know that you were ripped off, but it works now, so you are "satisfied"... Obviously, they end up looking pretty good and make maximum money for minimum effort...

[saphalline]

I would not take a PC to any of them for repair.That's a bit of unfair statement considering you can fix your own! :p What about those who can't? Or rather, those who can't and don't find the PCG forums?

You pay them about $300 or more for a problem that would take about 5 minutes to fix if they had done the reasonable assessment...Yes and no. I have to agree with the Best Buy statement, as painful as that is to type. They really don't see this situation a lot and I can count on one hand the number of OEM's I've seen that actually allow you to disable the HDD from the boot list! :eek: Think about it - you can usually move them around, if at all, but not much more. Quite often, when the HDD goes bad, the system just cycles through PXE boot attempts and won't even recognize the hard drive. In which case, it's a 99% safe bet that the HDD is gone and drastic measures need to be taken. This is especially true for laptops, since they suffer the most physical hardships and tend to be run into the ground. I'd like to know what kind of computer KCRA 3 used for this "sting operation" that allows you to disable the HDD boot option!

Obviously, they end up looking pretty good and make maximum money for minimum effort...Not really. I mean, it was a 5 minute fix, right? So technically speaking, the "minimum effort" would have been that! :p But no! They messed up and went the long way around! Hours of work and effort and money spent on a 5 minute fix... I'd say that qualifies them not for being lazy, but for being incompetent! :rolleyes:

[PrntRhd]

Saphalline,
I don't think my assessment is all that unfair.

Best Buy decided to use Geek Squad to drive the sales of the computer software and hardware on their shelves. I have previously posted threads with links documenting the relationship. Consumers are being told to buy product and services on the GeekSquad recommendations. Whether that is necessary or if a simple configuration change would fix their problem is irrelevant if the advice is always to buy a product or service and never recommend free anything.

Circuit City decided to mirror BestBuy with their FireDog. It is unclear if they are directing FireDog to sell product but it would not be that big a reach.

Staples is now offering repair services to make it easier to retain customers to whom they sell hardware and software by assuring consumers that they know what they are selling.

[Budfred]

If I worked on a computer that wasn't booting to the hard drive, I would run the diagnostics for that hard drive... If it couldn't find it, I would then look at connections to make sure that it is connected and powered... If there was still no luck finding it, I would look in BIOS to see what is going on... At that point, I would presumably find that it wasn't working and fix it... For someone who knows computers and is willing to take the time to find the problem, this is a pretty reasonable path and a fairly minimal amount of time...

However, it won't bring in large sums of money if that is the goal and that was my main point... It takes very little time or effort to turn the computer on, find out it isn't working and decide that the hard drive is bad... Backing up the existing computer takes very little time and energy as well, then installing and setting up the replacement hard drive takes a bit more time... All in all, a lot of money for a small amount of effort...

In terms of effective effort, it is certainly more minimal to do it properly... But in terms of minimal effort for maximum profit, it makes more sense to do it incompetently and have the user pay for your incompetence... If you sit in front of that computer to do the backups and the new install, it would be a fair amount of time invested... However, I can't imagine any tech doing that... I turn on processes, do other things and check back periodically to move it along... Total time invested is probably measured at under 30 minutes for more than $300 charged...

[sassie05]

I'd like to know what kind of computer KCRA 3 used for this "sting operation" that allows you to disable the HDD boot option! York disabled the hard drive in the start-up of the PC.

If I recall the segment, that was broadcast, correctly, I believe the IT manager, David York, was using a blue button near the top of the keyboard that indicated it was an IBM.

During the broadcast, Consumer reporter Lynsey Paulo, indicated that there was an error message at the top of the screen. I will assume that since the HDD was disabled the error was "Operating System Not Found", or, close to that. Therefor I would have gone straight to the BIOS and seen that there was no Primary listed. As Saphalline pointed out this was a five minute fix. The Techs (I use this label very loosely), should have enabled the HDD and sent the customer on their way with a warning, (of a bigger issue), to bring the unit back if this happens again.

I would have been wondering how the HDD was disabled in the first place.


I know that these stores need/want to make as much money (gouge) as they possibly can, but, if this was a "real" customer, how happy would they have been to get there PC back, and operational, within 5 minutes, no charge.

There is no price you can put on a satisfied patron praising their positive experience.

I know, I know, woulda, shoulda, coulda!;)

[George Hallam]

Tips On What To Do If Your Computer Fails

1. Shut it down. Don't make the problem worse.

2. Take it to a friend with computer knowledge.

3. Boot in the safe mode and do a system restore.

4. Back up important files.

5. If you do take it in for repair, get an exact diagnosis.

6. Find out how much it is to fix it.

7. You may be able to repair it yourself.

8. It may be more cost-effective to replace it.

9. ask on PC guide :D

For my work experience i went to a PC repair shop to see how that do it all...

1. Sit drink coffee

2. Look at PC for 30 seconds, if they cont see the problem go to 3

3. Format, charge for windows, charge for new HDD (yes a new one :eek:), pay for labour time (to much, even for windows install time), say PC was low on RAM and put more in, put software on that you dont need/use (charge you for that) and they go and charge them for taking it to their house and installing it

4. Laugh at the poor bloke

[sassie05]

:D 9. ask on PC guide :D
I wonder what resources they do utilize?

[saphalline]

I don't think my assessment is all that unfair.From my perspective, it is. You are certainly entitled to your opinion (and yours may be the primary in this case since you are the one who said it) but take a look at the arguments proffered so far. All of you are looking at this issue from a well-informed and knowledgeable angle - ie, you all know what you're talking about! But what if you don't?

For instance, I'm a n00b when it comes to cars! I know that cars have an engine with a relatively simple 3-stroke process (most of them) and they need fuel and they have spark plugs and pistons and stuff. I know a few details about car engines, such as the difference between in-line and V, but beyond that I have no idea what numbers are good for specific calibrations. So if my car is acting up, I take it in to get it fixed. If they tell me I need to spend $80 on a $5 part, how the heck am I supposed to know I'm getting ripped off?? :confused:

Most people are in this situation when it comes to computers. So if they know next to nothing about how computers break and what you can do to fix them and how much new components and software costs and how to install them - if they know nothing, then how are they supposed to know that the Geek Squad is taking them for a ride? And in reality, the Geek Squad does decent business, in which case how many people out there really care? They pay money, their computer works again. I pay $80 for a $5 part, and my car works again.

Story time! Back when I still did repairs for strangers (I only do it for family now) I had a laptop customer with the classic 13-month issues. (1-year warranty, 1 month beyond that - you all know about that.) They were having issues with saving M$ Office documents. It just didn't work correctly and they ended up with corrupt documents. I had seen this problem before: FAT32 used on the volume instead of NTFS. (Never did figure out what the problem was, although Paul Komski has since shed a bit of light on the problem, but that's another story...) Couldn't save the already corrupted files, but I converted the file system and told them it wouldn't happen again. Tried to send them on their way, but this particular customer ended up being the paranoid kind. They decided to argue the issue while I tried to explain what happened (as best as I could at the time). Well, 25 minutes later after a lot of "discussion", the customer came to the conclusion that he/she could no longer trust the laptop and that he/she should buy a new one! :eek:

This was quite the unusual predicament! I still tell this one at parties. :D

Soooo... To make a long story short, I had to spend another hour or so with this customer helping him/her pick out a brand new laptop to replace the near pristine 13-month-old laptop (the customer babied it so much!) that still worked perfectly and explain the many virtues of eBay and craigslist and all those outlets for getting rid of an old but still useful laptop. In the end, the customer bought a new laptop, spent the money and aggravation on doing data/software transfers, paid me to properly wipe & restore the "old" laptop for selling it off (including me surreptitiously converting the file system back over to NTFS) and thanked me for all of my "help"! :rolleyes:

Now I'm not saying that properly diagnosing the problem in the first place, doing the 5-minute fix, and sending the customer away happy and pay-free isn't a good idea. But look at it from the corporate stand-point here. I'm lucky enough to have never been a vanilla Geek Squad "tech", but I have put myself in the line of fire for walk-ins with computer problems. Most of the time, the easy 5-minute fixes for free are just great and they really should do it more often, but do you know how much those "techs" are paid!? :eek: You can't get competent help at those rates! And in the case of my single customer above that turned out to be freaky-paranoid, I can't help but wonder to this day if I could have saved the customer so much money (and myself so much time!) by just declaring that the HDD was bad (thus validating a "problem" in the customer's mind) and fixing it in the normal greedy Best Buy fashion. That's a specific case, of course, but how many people like this walk into any given Best Buy in the world on any given day? And, getting back to my original question, how many total n00bs walk into any given Best Buy on any given day, pay money, get their computer fixed, and leave happy?

[SufferWell1396]

Ah I was reading this thread and i knew this had happened to me once
I just couldn't remember the incidence.

Now I Remember,
So here's how the story goes
I'm stupid and I was using the computer, and hooked up a floppy drive.
The CD drive started going *KKRRAAANNG* over and over,
I freaked out, and I pulled the plug (bad idea).
I restart the computer, and while on boot-up I got a BSOD
I kept restarting but no good, and I didn't want to take any steps like reinstalling
My parents always accuse me of screwing up the computer, if something happens
So I felt it right not to take any steps, just let my parents handle what they think they should do.
AND BAM
I wake up the next day and my dad says he took it to Best Buy, for the fact that it was still under warranty (count my lucky stars)
A week or so later, we get the "Your Hard Drive Is Shot" routine,
They said we would need to purchase a new one, we ordered a new one.
It was only 50$ or so, I knew my parents were getting jyped but I needed the space,
So we got a new hard drive, I told them I would install Windows,
they said "well as for your old hard drive, we can do data recovery for a nominal fee" and i asked what the fee was, they said 150$
I told them to give me the hard drive, they did and I angerly left.
I got home, and I put in the old hard drive, AND HUZZAH
EVERYTHING WORKS OKAY AND EVERYTHING IS INTACT!
I did a good :rolleyes: and installed Windows on the other hard drive
and thats how i saved 150$ haha :)

[Budfred]

I agree that the average consumer doesn't know they are being ripped off and that is my complaint... I don't get my computer fixed anymore by anyone else, unless I have to (my work computer)... However, I remember taking my computer to a local repair shop which was going to get it back to me promptly... About 2 weeks out, they still hadn't contacted me, so I went over there... The guy said they hadn't had time to get to it yet, but he let me use their copy of CheckIt to run diagnostics... I found out the RAM was bad and bought some new RAM from them at inflated prices... My computer worked fine and I took it home, but somewhat poorer than I went in... If I had known about PCGuide then (or if it existed in the late '80s), I could have figured it out at home, picked up some much cheaper RAM and been running again in a day or so... They didn't exactly rip me off, but they certainly benefited from my lack of knowledge at the time... They were probably more advanced and better paid than the Geek Squad, so they were even planning to use the right tool...

When I take my car in to get fixed, I also end up relying a lot on what they tell me... If I later find out that they scammed me, I do not return and I warn everyone I know to avoid them... The point in this thread is that the work was not done to find the actual problem and the user was charged about as much a new computer would cost to create a complex problem and fix it... If people view that as their only viable option, I certainly won't intrude... However, if they ask me, I will give them a number of other options to consider and urge them to beware of the computer repair companies...

[sassie05]

We could tell from the computer's setup that the tech has been working in the right area.
Can anyone shed some light on this for me?
How could they tell?

Finally, Staples.

York said the tech there was looking in the same area as the Circuit City tech, but could not pinpoint the problem.

The diagnostic fee is $49, but they did not charge us because the tech could not diagnose the problem.
Well, you have to give some kudos to Staples for not charging.

[George Hallam]

I think its all down to trust

You trust a PC repair company and think they will give you honest advise on what is wrong... But from their point of view they cant go around giving freebie computer repairs they do need the $$$ to live

The same goes on here.. On the Guide we dont make any money for the advise we give and the things we do we dont get paid or benefit from, so we try to give cost defective and honest advise.. But the downside about PC guide is that anyone can give uncensored advise which could ruin someones day (they put their PC's life in our hands :p) because we are behind a screen and they cant do anything, thats probably why people go to the shops and get the PC repaired by pro's (like we arnt :p) people might say you get what you pay for....

Luckily we have a good MOD team and honest people to advise here so we don't have any problems with that..

like Saph said about the car he has no clue so he has no choice but to take it to a mechanic or have no car..

I will give them a number of other options to consider and urge them to beware of the computer repair companies...

I second that, if you have to take it to a PC shop let a friend recomend one or ask before you do...

[Whyzman]

I agree that the average consumer doesn't know they are being ripped off and that is my complaint... I also take umbrage when a person's ignorance is exploited. I'm not against turning a profit mind you...

[jlreich]

I am a field technician for a very large corporation that serves other very large very busy corporations that rely heavily on their computer equipment to do business.

More often than not problems are easily diagnosed and fixed. Often you know what part you need before you even go to site. Or that you don't even need a part and it's something stupid like someone was messing around with the boot order, or inadvertently unplugged the network cable and the terminal can't find the boot image over the network, although they swear they checked all cables carefully. :rolleyes:

Then there are times when it takes a lot of work to find what is wrong. There are other times that you spend two hours and are still not sure what the cause is.

Now most of the customers have a service agreement and don't care what I do just as long as it gets fixed. Except when it something like an unplugged cable or the system was simply turned off (it happens!), then they get charged big bucks. ;)

But we do sometimes get a customer that does not have a service agreement and are paying for what ever gets done out of pocket. And we are talking 2 hour minimum at $200 hr just to show up, and not including parts if needed. :eek:

If I am having trouble finding out what is wrong I call someone to see if they have any ideas. Often they will come up with something I have overlooked. Or perhaps it is a problem they have seen many times and know exactly what the problem is.

There is nothing wrong with collaborating, is this not what we do here at the Pc Guide? Even the best overlook things from time to time, especially when you are under pressure to get it done.

I guess all this typing is to show that I do give kudos to Staples for not charging. And that I understand to an extent what the others did.

But if that customer is paying for diagnostics they should at least get the time and effort they are paying for. If one of my charge customers is paying for a minimum 2 hours, they are going to get 2 hours if it is needed to fix the problem.

If I still can't figure out what is wrong they are going to get an honest answer that I am not certain but it could be this or this and these are your options and it will cost this much....

Also if I put a part in that doesn't fix it they don't get charged for that part. Or if the charges are going to end up being something like $1200 or more I may tell them this money in my opinion would be better spent towards a new system.

To sum it up, give the customer what they are paying for. Don't charge them just to charge them. Do what it takes to get it fixed within a reasonable time frame. ;)

[Budfred]

jlreich,

If tech support normally took the approach that you describe, I would probably send people to them instead of trying to fix it myself...

At my work, we have Dell leasing us computers and providing support... I recently was asked about a problem my supervisor was having when she unplugged her laptop from the network and attempted to use the wireless... She had worked with several IT people because she kept getting logged out and had to log back in repeatedly... She noted that several other people she encountered in meetings had the same problem and that IT was not able to fix it... I looked at her computer and she showed me how she was connecting to the wireless network... She was using an icon that showed wireless connections in the lower right, but not using the one that showed signal strength and offered networks to connect to... Since I received no training on how to connect when I got my laptop, that is what I had learned to use to connect... I tried that and she has had no more problems connecting wirelessly since then...

Another example last year occurred when my laptop started freezing for no apparent reason... After replacing most of the innards, the tech finally consulted with a colleague who told him to run a diagnostic which promptly led to finding out the RAM was bad... RAM replaced and no problems since... Meanwhile, I had to take several hours to reset all of my personal options on the computer after he replaced the hard drive and lost several more hours as he tinkered with it... I would have started with the diagnostic, but they won't let me do that on the work computer, so I had to wait until he messed with it for a week or so...

I have talked with a number of IT guys over the years who I would not hesitate to send someone to or ask for help myself (mostly right here!), but I have run into far more who believe the main solution for every problem is to nuke and reload or to replace something...

For an automotive example -- when I just got out of college, I had a used Datsun (remember when that was the name??) and the speedometer no longer worked... I took it to the dealer and found out that it would cost me about $1000 to repair it... I was pretty poor then and hadn't even paid that much for the car, so I started to think I would just need to drive very slowly to avoid traffic tickets... Someone suggested I could try to fix it and I decided it wouldn't hurt to at least give it a shot... I went to a junk yard and was going to buy the speedometer from another Datsun, then see if I could figure out how to install it... The guy there said that it would cost me quite a lot to have the speedometer removed from the console unit that it was mounted in, but he would sell me the console for about $15 (if I remember)... It turned out that I needed to remove about 8 screws, pull the old console after removing the speedometer cable, attach the speedometer cable to the console I bought and replace those screws... It worked fine and took me about an hour to complete it... I am not a mechanic at all and I would have been in major financial difficulty if I had trusted the mechanics who offered to fix it... As it turned out, I spent less than $20 and invested some time to fix it myself... I have learned to take a similar approach with computers, although I don't generally do too much of that with cars these days...

[jlreich]

After replacing most of the innards, the tech finally consulted with a colleague who told him to run a diagnostic which promptly led to finding out the RAM was bad...
This was a breakdown in Dell's phone support. They should have had you run the diagnostics to begin with and found the ram was bad. If your IT department used the e-support or whatever it is called it should have asked if diagnostics were ran and what if any errors did it give. If they didn't run diagnostics they should have. In that case it was a breakdown of your IT department.

I used to work a for a company that did 95% Dell service work. And the company I work for now is a Dell service partner although we do very little Dell work. When we do Dell stuff it's usually for our own internal company Dell computers. And we have a few service contracts for Dell machines that are no longer under warranty.

Point being that is the way it is supposed to work. Dell phone support diagnoses and recommends a part if needed and dispatches tech to site. Tech replaces part and most often phone support is right on and his/her job is done.

Now the occasional 5% or so of the time when the part does not fix it the tech will need to do some troubleshooting. Usually the diagnostic LED's will lead the way to results. And the problem has already been narrowed down by phone support and the part that you have already replaced. So, really the on-site tech should only have to run diagnostics on rare occasions.

Further more, once the part did not fix the tech should have been on the phone with tech support and they would have helped further diagnose the problem. Dell field technicians do not carry extra parts around. They only have what Dell has sent them for that particular call. Which sometimes is several parts because phone support had a hard time narrowing it down to one component, or maybe they sent the "just in case parts".

As most of you know I am certainly anything but a Dell fan. But I will say on the business end of support they usually do a pretty good job. But this says nothing for the actual reliability of Dell machines, or lack there of.

[Cavalier90]

For instance, I'm a n00b when it comes to cars! I know that cars have an engine with a relatively simple 3-stroke process (most of them)

I know cars are 4 stroke or rarely 2 stroke (Trabants from East Germany being the most famous, in Europe anyway), but I've not come across a 3-stroke. There is an external combustion engine, as well as the more normal internal combustion engine, but this is not a 3 stroke either. Did no-one else read the article, and Saph was this a trick to see who was reading your piece properly, or a slip of the fingers?

[Budfred]

jlreich,

The IT dept at my job is Dell... They worked out an agreement as part of the lease arrangement to do all of the onsite tech support, so the tech who came to my office was a Dell employee and was not calling Dell at all, except maybe his supervisor...

[jlreich]

Sounds like it is actually a third party tech support service. Which is fairly common when systems are leased. Not just a Dell contractor as the companies I have worked for, but an actual support service somewhere in the middle of your company and Dell. They may do things slightly different. Your company is probably leasing from that company and not directly from Dell.