Dimension 5150 psu and card upgrade???

[nissx240]

hey folks.

i got a Dim 5150 that i want to update a bit.
3.0g, 1g ram, xp pro, 305w psu, integrated graphics. a pretty basic workstation.

i want a video card good enough to run most games (not using vista). and a psu to back it up.

i was thinking:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2231768&Sku=E145-7874
and
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2974508&Sku=ULT31847%20K

what do you smart guys think?
im not a hardcore gamer by any means, but every now and then when i want to play something, i'd like to do it with a decent card.

also. the Dim 5150 chassis is pretty decent on airflow already. do you see any reason to upgrade the fan (120mm)? and if so what fan do you reccomend.

much appreciation and thanks in advance.

[saphalline]

First of all, the GeForce 7300 GT is not a very good vid card for gaming. In fact, it's more like a clown car in a Nascar race! You'll need something like a GeForce 7600 GS or Radeon X1650 at the very least. Also, when it comes to the vid card, are you certain your Dimension 5150 has a PCIe slot? Or is it AGP? Or does it have neither and you're stuck with PCI? Give us the service tag (aka, serial number) off the back of the unit so we can double-check the specs.

Secondly, are you sure any off-the-shelf PSU will fit into your Dell without a problem? In my experience, this is generally not true for any OEM system! You might want to take measurements of the PSU already in there to see how big it is and how much room you have left for a bigger PSU, if any.

do you see any reason to upgrade the fan (120mm)?Fan!? :eek: As in, singular? There's only one fan?? Oh boy...

If you have no other fan spots in that case, you will definitely want to upgrade the fan to the absolute fastest and loudest 120mm you can find! Airflow will be of the utmost importance if you're thinking of gaming on an OEM!

[Rick]

The Dell PSU is a proprietary unit
The stand power supply will Not fit exactly or correctly
Dell has a small tab lock system on the unit

[saphalline]

I know that PC Power & Cooling (now owned by OCZ) makes a special line of Dell upgrade PSU's. Perhaps they have one for the Dimension 5150's??

[nissx240]

yep only 1 fan. its a big mother with a huge heat sink on it. but i cant find stock airflow specs on the dell unit. so i dont know what to shoot for in terms of an improvement.

but like i said, im no hard-core gamer at all. not looking to do much at all. maybe run half life2 or oblivion and such. but not much more. im not looking to win the race or even come in second. i just want some fun without having to set all the quality settings at their lowest.

i know for sure it has a pci-e slot.

i dont know 100percent that shelf unit psu's will fit. but from what i've read most install without any hassle. it's my understanding that older dells had propietery units and that alot of the newer ones use fairly "standard" parts.

[saphalline]

im no hard-core gamer at all. not looking to do much at all. maybe run half life2 or oblivion and such.You say you're not a hard-core gamer, yet you list games like HL2 and Oblivion! :p That's kind of contradictory! ;)

If you want to run games like HL2 and Oblivion without putting everything on minimum, then a GeForce 7300 GT will only make you cry! This is a vid card for generic gamers who merely need a dedicated vid card over onboard video - the poor thing would even struggle with The Sims 2 on medium settings! :eek: No, you need something far better... Something at the $100 mark at least...

[nissx240]

i like those games but i'm not first on the pre-order list, 8 hours a day, not having a girlfriend kind of guy. i buy maybe one or two games a year and while i understand that a good card is necessary regardless, i just didnt want to break the bank on it.

you recommended the 7600gs.
is the psu i chose adiquate or do you have a better choice.

how bout the fan?

i know i'm new to all this but your help is very much appreciatied. thanks for your time.

[saphalline]

i like those games but i'm not first on the pre-order list, 8 hours a day, not having a girlfriend kind of guy.Careful what you say! Some people may take offense to that. And in point of fact, I don't consider that description to be a "hard-core gamer" - that's more of an obsessive and self-destructive personality as described by modern social-oriented psychologists.

My own definition of a "hard-core gamer" is based on new and/or demanding games. If you play or actively seek ways to play the latest crazes or intense 3D games, then you're "hard-core". For instance, Oblivion was the most demanding game in terms of hardware requirements for a solid 18 months after its release! :eek: Until just 6 months ago, no other game could make a PC cry like Oblivion! That right there puts you in the category of a "hard-core gamer" in my opinion. If you have another definition, you are certainly entitled to that, but be careful about stereotypes and character defamations.


The X-Finity 600W you picked out is more than powerful enough for a GeForce 7600 GS. You could go up to an 8800 Ulta or Radeon HD 2900 XT with that thing if you wanted. I listed the 7600 GS as a starting point for gaming-worthy vid cards, so that should be your minimum here. Is it your budget that is holding you back the most with your vid card choice? You mentioned WinXP in your original post as if that makes a difference. What have you been told thus far?

[jlreich]

it's my understanding that older dells had propietery units and that alot of the newer ones use fairly "standard" parts.
This is true for the most part. As long as your system is a mid-tower and not one of the slim-line versions you shouldn't have much trouble replacing the PSU.

The tab lock Rick mentioned is a concern. You don't need the tab lock to use a different PSU, but I can't remember if that system has a raised section in the case for the tab to fit into or not. If it is raised it may get in the way preventing a longer PSU from sitting in there correctly.

I have worked on those systems before but it's been awhile and I don't remember exactly how it's setup.

You should remove the PSU and have a look before you buy. Also you may be able to bend it down to get it out of the way if needed. Do keep in mind any modifications to your case will likely void your warranty if you still have one.

Or just buy one of the PC P&C Dell replacement PSU's and not worry about it.

[nissx240]

"Oblivion was the most demanding game in terms of hardware requirements for a solid 18 months after its release! Until just 6 months ago, no other game could make a PC cry like Oblivion!"

didnt know that. i see your point.

but if you knew the guys i know who are on the preorder list, with an extra 8 hours a day, with no female companionship, you would know that i am nowhere near their league. not even near their sport.

soo....

sorry to all you folks (not my friends, i mean to offend them) if you were offended by my statement.

on to why we are here.

i listed xp, because i've been informed (not the most reliable source) that certain games will only run with vista.

lets start over.
say im capped at $300
i need a psu, vid card, and possible fan upgrade.
where do i stand?

[nissx240]

this is the recommended requirement for Oblivion:

* 3 Ghz Intel Pentium 4 or equivalent processor GOT IT
* 1 GB System RAM GOT IT
* ATI X800 series, NVIDIA GeForce 6800 series, or higher video card DONT GOT IT

but isnt the 7300gt or the 7600gs both higher than a 6800 series?

[jlreich]

My kids machine has a factory over clocked 6800GS, AMD X2 4200+, 2GB ram in it and it runs Oblivion at lower medium settings and grass turned completely off without much choppiness.

My system has a factory over clocked 7900GS, AMD X2 4400+, 2GB ram and runs it at medium settings pretty well, but again with the grass completely off. But even at these settings it's still hard to get frame rates over 30 FPS when outside.

The 7300 is a low end budget card for the 7xxx series and you are better off with a 6800. The 7600 is getting to the point that it's better than getting a higher end 6xxx series. Where the improvements that come with the 7xxxx GPU's are starting outweigh the lower clock speeds and low ram bandwidth that usually accompany the medium and lower end cards of the series.

[saphalline]

but isnt the 7300gt or the 7600gs both higher than a 6800 series?No, the first number indicates the graphical processor generation - in this case either GeForce 6 or 7. The rest of the number/character code indicates performance options.

So a GeForce 7800 or 7900 would trump a GeForce 6800 without a problem. But a GeForce 7600 is more akin to a GeForce 6600. Likewise, a GeForce 7300 is matched to a GeForce 6200. The letter codes on the end also indicate relative performance for both NVidia and AMD. In NVidia's case, an "LE" is the worst while a "GTX" or "Ultra" is the best. LE, SE, GS, GT, GTX, Ultra (roughly).

Putting it all together, a GeForce 6800 GS is no match for GeForce 7900 GT for two main reasons. The first is the generational gap - a 6 can't compete with a 7. The second is the letter code - a GS is worse than a GT. So in the case of these two, the 7900 GT could be up to twice as powerful as a 6800 GS! :eek: This is why we're all so picky about vid card nomenclature! ;) One little number or letter can make a huge difference in gaming performance!

i listed xp, because i've been informed (not the most reliable source) that certain games will only run with vista.Sort of. Certain games rely on DX10 to look their best (such as Bioshock, World in Conflict, Crysis, etc) and DX10 is only on Vista. M$ more or less decided to draw a line here - DX10 will never be ported to WinXP. So in that sense, this is true. However, it will be a very long time before WinXP is dropped for game support! The install base is way too high!

The big line drawing here for gamers is the fact that WinXP is being left behind. I think this is rightly so for a number of detailed kernel reasons (you can see my explanations in my DX10 thread in the PC World section of the forums) but it is a stickler nonetheless. Without Vista and its access to DX10, many of the latest gaming visuals are going to waste. It will increasingly become an issue of paying for content that you can't see! The benefits of DX10 vs DX9c are push-and-pull right now, unless you happen to be lucky (me) or made of money (not me) and have both the hardware and two OS'es required to pull off both options. There's no denying that this is a point of contention these days, and in my opinion, after seeing what Crysis has to offer in DX10 mode on Vista, I can't imagine going back to DX9c mode on WinXP and paying the same amount of money for the game! It's just not possible! The visual achievements are astounding in Vista, to the point where the game looks downright morose on WinXP. Almost as if your teammates' morale were a little lower and the enemies have a bit less spring in their step...

[nissx240]

after some more research i found out what you just explained about the number series for the cards. so glad i found you guys here or else i wouldve been out 50 bucks.

i have since setlled on either a 7600gt or 8600gt. they are both pretty close in price and from what i can gather offer pretty good performance.

i took measurements for the psu and while there is the tab-lock system in there, it will be easy to bend it out of the way and will then fit the xfinity i was looking at no problem.

that sucks about the dx10 issue. but i think for this current pc i will just stick with xp until i get a new more gaming oriented rig as i seem to be neither lucky or made of money.

[saphalline]

The 7600 GT is a more solid investment for pure gaming potential. It gives the most frame rates per dollar spent and is resilient enough to handle just about any game with good results. The 8600 series is lacking in certain areas, such as performance with older games, but handles itself well enough with new shader-intensive games and it can do HDCP duties. Its strengths lie more in the areas of multimedia and medium performance with new and upcoming games.

Ehh, they're both budget vid cards, so what do you expect? You get what you pay for - just be aware of that when you enter your credit card info and you won't be disappointed either way.