Some Questions About the Windows Complete PC Backup [Archive]

Sylvander

11-29-2007, 05:55 AM

1. Better to make/restore image backups using a 3rd party program that...

(a) Loads from some media/disk other than the HDD. [floppy or optical disk]
Because there may be a problem with the HDD, so best to work independently of that.
The HDD may even be faulty and need replaced.

(b) Works outside of the Windows environment.
When making/saving an image it's best to image the Windows partition from outside Windows, and when Windows is not in use.
Same when restoring an image.
If Windows was failing to load it would not be possible to restore using a program that only runs within Windows.
An image restore program running outside of Windows would be unaffected by any problem with Windows.

(c) Saves to [and restores from] some media other than the internal HDD from which Windows is being loaded. [External USB HDD?]
If the internal HDD goes faulty and is then replaced, the imaging program should then be able to be loaded from a [floppy or optical] disk/media, restore an image from the independent media [External USB HDD], and have the system back up and running with very little delay.

(d) The image you hope to restore should match the present hardware.
i.e. The hardware setup that existed when the image was made should be identical to the hardware setup now existing on the PC to which you intend to restore.
If it is, you have no problem.
However...
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If it isn't, you could run a "repair" reinstallation of Windows after the restore and before attempting to load Windows.
That would set up Windows to work [not only with the original hardware, but also] with the new hardware arrangement, so it could now work with either set.
When Windows loaded it would find a certain connected set of hardware, go looking for the appropriate settings in the registry, find them, and use those settings to make operational all those hardware items.
But then there's the problem of whether that changed set of hardware is considered to be a "different PC", and whether Windows is licensed to work on both, or only one at a time.
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2. The above will give you back a working/bootable system of software.

(a) What I then do is to use the FREE version of the SyncBack program running within Windows to synchronise/backup/restore to [a folder on a partition on] my external USB HDD.
This makes a 2nd copy of anything I choose, and I choose to separately backup all of the contents of my various data partitions [D: E: F:].
The FREE copy of the prog can backup everything on the working Windows partition [C:], except files in use [about 25]; the paid-for version can backup ALL [including files in use].
Once the initial/first 2nd copy has been made [that takes quite a long time], it only takes a few minutes [during subsequent backups/restores] to compare the "source" to the "destination" and have listed all the "differences", and apply those.
Studying those differences can be quite informative, and can be used as a diagnostic aid.
You then decide which differences to apply [during a backup or restore].

Gecko 1123

11-29-2007, 01:14 PM

1. Better to make/restore image backups using a 3rd party program that...

(a) Loads from some media/disk other than the HDD. [floppy or optical disk]
Because there may be a problem with the HDD, so best to work independently of that.
The HDD may even be faulty and need replaced.
Yes, the Windows backup program can backup to CD/DVDs.

(b) Works outside of the Windows environment.
When making/saving an image it's best to image the Windows partition from outside Windows, and when Windows is not in use.
Same when restoring an image.
If Windows was failing to load it would not be possible to restore using a program that only runs within Windows.
An image restore program running outside of Windows would be unaffected by any problem with Windows.
But if I reinstalled Windows from the OEM disk, and then restored from within Windows, would it work?

(c) Saves to [and restores from] some media other than the internal HDD from which Windows is being loaded. [External USB HDD?]
If the internal HDD goes faulty and is then replaced, the imaging program should then be able to be loaded from a [floppy or optical] disk/media, restore an image from the independent media [External USB HDD], and have the system back up and running with very little delay.
It can backup and restore with DVDs.

(d) The image you hope to restore should match the present hardware.
i.e. The hardware setup that existed when the image was made should be identical to the hardware setup now existing on the PC to which you intend to restore.
What I meant by my question was, if the computer was sent back to Gateway and they replaced it with the same model of computer, would it work, or would I need hardware with the exact same serial numbers?
If it is, you have no problem.
However...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it isn't, you could run a "repair" reinstallation of Windows after the restore and before attempting to load Windows.
That would set up Windows to work [not only with the original hardware, but also] with the new hardware arrangement, so it could now work with either set.
When Windows loaded it would find a certain connected set of hardware, go looking for the appropriate settings in the registry, find them, and use those settings to make operational all those hardware items.
But then there's the problem of whether that changed set of hardware is considered to be a "different PC", and whether Windows is licensed to work on both, or only one at a time.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. The above will give you back a working/bootable system of software.

(a) What I then do is to use the FREE version of the SyncBack program running within Windows to synchronise/backup/restore to [a folder on a partition on] my external USB HDD.
This makes a 2nd copy of anything I choose, and I choose to separately backup all of the contents of my various data partitions [D: E: F:].
The FREE copy of the prog can backup everything on the working Windows partition [C:], except files in use [about 25]; the paid-for version can backup ALL [including files in use].
Once the initial/first 2nd copy has been made [that takes quite a long time], it only takes a few minutes [during subsequent backups/restores] to compare the "source" to the "destination" and have listed all the "differences", and apply those.
Studying those differences can be quite informative, and can be used as a diagnostic aid.
You then decide which differences to apply [during a backup or restore].

Could you answer the questions I added in bold print?

Sylvander

11-29-2007, 03:26 PM

"Yes, the Windows backup program can backup to CD/DVDs"
But does this [Vista?] backup program run [to make and restore backups] even when Windows won't load?

"But if I reinstalled Windows from the OEM disk, and then restored from within Windows, would it work?"
Yes, BUT...
There are often problems encountered.
e.g. You might have trouble re-installing Windows. There are often people who come to the PC Guide who report difficulty doing this.
It is MUCH quicker and easier to restore an image of a complete working system that includes ALL the MANY HOURS of work previously done installing programs and making configuration tweaks.

"It can backup and restore with DVDs"
In times past I used to save backups to CD-RW's [the then equivalent].
But these could be rather unreliable. Sometimes a restore attempt just failed.
I've never known either a backup or restore to/from my external USB2 HDD using Image for DOS [IforD] (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image.html) to fail even once in the smallest way.
Is the restore program included on the backup DVD's as they are with IforD I believe.

"What I meant by my question was, if the computer was sent back to Gateway and they replaced it with the same model of computer, would it work, or would I need hardware with the exact same serial numbers?"
I think so long as the hardware would work with the same drivers and registry settings [essentially identical hardware], then an image would work with it.
I can't see that serial numbers would have any part to play in the OPERATION of the hardware, unless as an indication that the hardware was different in properties/characteristics/operation.

Gecko 1123

11-29-2007, 03:50 PM

"Yes, the Windows backup program can backup to CD/DVDs"
But does this [Vista?] backup program run [to make and restore backups] even when Windows won't load?
Its supposedly a hard drive imaging program (and yes, its in Vista.) It doesn't make bootable backup disks, but I thought I could reinstall Windows and then run the restore from within Windows.

"But if I reinstalled Windows from the OEM disk, and then restored from within Windows, would it work?"
Yes, BUT...
There are often problems encountered.
e.g. You might have trouble re-installing Windows. There are often people who come to the PC Guide who report difficulty doing this.
It is MUCH quicker and easier to restore an image of a complete working system that includes ALL the MANY HOURS of work previously done installing programs and making configuration tweaks.
As I said, its supposed to save the registry and therefore all the settings and applications.

"It can backup and restore with DVDs"
In times past I used to save backups to CD-RW's [the then equivalent].
But these could be rather unreliable. Sometimes a restore attempt just failed.
I've never known either a backup or restore to/from my external USB2 HDD using Image for DOS [IforD] (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image.html) to fail even once in the smallest way.
Is the restore program included on the backup DVD's as they are with IforD I believe.
I think it uses the restore program on the current Windows installation rather than saving the program to the DVD.

"What I meant by my question was, if the computer was sent back to Gateway and they replaced it with the same model of computer, would it work, or would I need hardware with the exact same serial numbers?"
I think so long as the hardware would work with the same drivers and registry settings [essentially identical hardware], then an image would work with it.
I can't see that serial numbers would have any part to play in the OPERATION of the hardware, unless as an indication that the hardware was different in properties/characteristics/operation.

About ImageForDOS, would it be more reliable than ImageForWindows? I don't have a disk with DOS on it, all I have is a Knoppix CD that may or may not work. I'm not good with DOS anyway. I heard that with ImageForWindows (another imaging program made by the same company as ImageForDOS, which is designed to operate in Windows,) you can't run the program from the partition that contains the current Windows installation, is that true?

Sylvander

11-29-2007, 05:28 PM

"About ImageForDOS, would it be more reliable than ImageForWindows?"
Yes, Paul Komski certainly thinks so and I'm in agreement with that.
"Image for Windows" [which I have installed and have used now and then] is doing something which involves intrinsic difficulties: making an image of a software system which is in use at the time.
Much better to make an image [from outside of Windows] of a Windows partition that is not in use.
Having said that, I've never yet been aware of any problem with any image made by IforW.

"I don't have a disk with DOS on it"
Try...
Smart Boot Manager (http://www.iol.ie/~krakowangus/sbm/sbm.htm)
My bootable floppy that includes ptedit, partinfo, edit.com, and a DOS prompt (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=52472)
[You can load DOS into memory (by choosing it from the menu), then swap in any other floppy that holds any program of your choice and type the name of the program file and hit "Enter" to make it run]
When you boot the floppy it displays a nice little menu from which you choose which program to run, or a DOS prompt.

"you can't run the program from the partition that contains the current Windows installation, is that true?"
No, not true; you CAN run IforW from within Windows [this is very easy and convenient, but not so safe] with the program loading from its location on the Windows partition, and it can save an image file to any location you like.
But it CANNOT restore an image directly using IforW running within Windows.
Instead it automatically reboots to "Image for DOS", and that does the job for it working from DOS [outside Windows].
If ever I wanted to restore an image that happened to have been made by IforW, I prefer to just load IforD off its bootable floppy and use that [I have both plus BiNG].

"I thought I could reinstall Windows and then run the restore from within Windows"
I used to do that, but it's not so quick and convenient as restoring an image, so I stopped.

"its supposed to save the registry and therefore all the settings and applications"
Quite so, but...see answer above.

"it uses the restore program on the current Windows installation"
Again...there might be difficulty reinstalling Windows in which case you're in trouble.
I've NEVER experienced trouble restoring an image. :)

jlreich

11-29-2007, 08:37 PM

IFW is a good program and I use it often to make images from within windows without the need to reboot the machine. (Although I do agree with the others that imaging is best done from outside of windows.) But as Sylvander mentioned you cannot restore from within windows. Which is why every copy of IFW comes with a copy of IFD. You need IFD to make the restore, or BootIt NG will work as well since all their programs are cross compatible.

You don't need DOS to use IFD. You download the IFD file then after unzipping it click on "makedisk" file and it will burn to CD or floppy. The disk you made will have everything you need on it. ;)

I recommend reading trough the manual. It will help in understanding how to use the program properly.

Paul Komski

11-29-2007, 09:40 PM

I was wondering if I had to restore the backup on a computer with the exact same hardware (same serial numbers.)If its not the same computer the hardware is never identical. Every NIC, for example, has a unique ID. Also, each time you restore to a different hard drive or to the same drive that has been zeroed, it will get or have a new or different disk signature and this can be enough to help trip a reactivation. Restoring a complete HDD image is better than restoring partitions but if you do restore partitions consider having a backup of the MBR which you could use to reinstate the original disk signature - but do this before you boot to the restored installation.

You may have spotted, by now, that you dont need IFD on a floppy - a boot CD will work just as well.

Gecko 1123

11-30-2007, 01:53 PM

So I could make a bootable disk with ImageForDOS on it? Would I need command.com or other DOS files also on the disk? Could you tell me how to make a bootable disk with this program on it using Power2Go? Would I check the box "make this disk bootable" then use BOOTIMG.img as the bootable image file (that file is in the burning program's folder, and is the default bootable image file.) Then would I put ImageForDOS in as the data to burn to the disk?
And would formatting (or whatever the disk does to reinstall Windows) the hard drive by using the reinstall Windows CD change the hard disk signature? Also, does ImageForDOS backup one partition or the entire hard drive?

mjc

11-30-2007, 02:24 PM

No...

Grab the IFD manual from http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image.html

Starting on page 7 are the exact instructions...the supplied utilities will build the bootable CD for you and burn it...

7. Click Finish, and respond to subsequent prompts as necessary. MakeDisk will then create your bootable media or ISO image. When it is done, the success screen should appear, as shown below.

Gecko 1123

11-30-2007, 07:02 PM

I'm just a little confused about how to backup with IFD. Ok, so I'm going to first choose BIOS HD, then hard drive 0 (will hard drive 1 only show up if you have two hard drives?) Then I choose partition 1 (C partition in Windows?) right? Is partition 2 the D partition? If it is, will I lose the ability to automatically make system restore points? Can I make a new partition and tell Windows to use it as the recovery partition after I restore? Back to the point... next I choose CD/DVD, and then Atapi. Then 2GB as the maximum file size (the actual recovery disks don't have to be bootable, so I can use my high-capacity Memorex DVDs even though the IFD bootable disk is TDK brand, right?) Validate image, yes. Byte for Byte, yes. Is that what I'm supposed to do? Sorry, the manual is a bit vague about what certain things mean. One last thing, will DVD+R Dual Layer disks work for the backup?

Gecko 1123

11-30-2007, 07:30 PM

About that D partition, would the ImageAll program, which is an add-on for IFD, save the recovery partition correctly? Would Windows still recognize it as the recovery partition and correctly backup the system configuration to it after it was restored with IFD? Sorry about all these questions. I hope a manual comes with ImageAll. :o

Sylvander

12-01-2007, 05:40 AM

1. "will hard drive 1 only show up if you have two hard drives?"
I believe so; I never have any problem with this because I only have one internal physical HDD, and only that choice is offered.

2. "Then I choose partition 1 (C partition in Windows?) right? Is partition 2 the D partition?"
Yes.
The partition arrangement is displayed in full and seems pretty straightforward.
In my case there is a Primary Partition C: of 6 GB.
Then there is the remainder of an 80 GB HDD as an Extended Partition within which are four Logical Partitions = D: [1 GB] E: [30 GB] F: [30 GB] G: [12 GB] with the size of each given.
It's pretty obvious which is D: etc.

3. "will I lose the ability to automatically make system restore points?"
No, what you do with IforD has no internal effect whatever upon Windows other than restoring a previous setup.

4. "Can I make a new partition and tell Windows to use it as the recovery partition after I restore?"
Don't know, never done that.
Why would you want or need to do that?
After all, your image backups become the new way to recover to this setup or that.
The recovery partition becomes redundant.

5. "next I choose CD/DVD, and then Atapi"
I've never tried that so far, always use my USB2 HDD.
Perhaps I should try using a DVD rewritable disk on which to save an image.

6. "Then 2GB as the maximum file size"
Yes.

7. "so I can use my high-capacity Memorex DVDs even though the IFD bootable disk is TDK brand, right?"
Right.

8. "Validate image, yes"
I never bother to do that; never had this go wrong, so it seems unnecessary, and it takes so long to complete.
I believe Paul Komski thinks it is a vital check.

9. "Byte for Byte, yes. Is that what I'm supposed to do?"
I don't remember that as an option.
I believe the program copies cluster-for-cluster.

10. "will DVD+R Dual Layer disks work for the backup?"
I believe so; it can make backups to every kind of media I think.
Never tried it.

11. "would the ImageAll program, which is an add-on for IFD, save the recovery partition correctly?"
I was unaware of the existence of that Terabyte program, but if they say it will backup multiple chosen partitions I'm sure it will.
I would rather image each partition independently so that it becomes possible to restore this partition or that as I choose.
In your case you could restore the recovery partition separately, and only make a single copy.

12. "Would Windows still recognize it as the recovery partition and correctly backup the system configuration to it after it was restored with IFD?"
I'm sure it would.

13. One thing to be aware of is...
If after making an image you were to change the partition sizes [using BiNG perhaps], and then try to restore the images to partitions which no longer fit...
Or to different partitions which are not a perfect fit...
If the partition is too small for the image, IforD will refuse to restore to that.
If the partition is too big, IforD will restore to that OK but the spare space will be unallocated and you'd need to use [something like] BiNG if you want to eliminate that unallocated space to make the contents fit.

Sylvander

12-01-2007, 10:08 AM

Just now tried making an image backup of my 6 GB C: partition to a DVD-RW disk.
It worked fine first time. :)

Here's the sequence I noted after I booted the IforD floppy:
1. Chose "Create Image".

2. "Save From" [BIOS HDD].

3. "Save From" [Hard Drive 0]

4. "Save From" [Partition C:]
-----------------------------
5. "Save To" [CD/DVD]

6. "Save To" [ATAPI]

7. "Save To" [Pioneer DVD-RW = DVR-112D]

8. Write Speed [Optimal (the DVD-RW disk is 2x)]

9. Validate the write? [No]

10. Validate the image? [No]

11. "Imaging in Progress..." displayed, then completed.

See below a screenshot of the contents of the written DVD-RW disk.
Note the 1.440 kB BOOT.BIN file that simulates a bootable IforD floppy I believe.
.

Sylvander

12-01-2007, 11:05 AM

OK...
1. Restarted my PC with the DVD-RW disk in place.

2. The IforD program was automatically loaded off the disk and I was asked for a yes or no as to whether I wanted to go ahead and restore the image.

3. Typed Y, hit "Enter", and the restore began.
The contents of C: being restored would either be identical or nearly identical to the existing contents.

4. Took 50 min to complete.

5. Rebooted the PC back into Windows and noticed no difference to before the restore, except the Recycle Bin now had something in it [as it did before the backup] when I'd "Erased" the contents between the backup and restore.

Gecko 1123

12-01-2007, 12:57 PM

1. "will hard drive 1 only show up if you have two hard drives?"
I believe so; I never have any problem with this because I only have one internal physical HDD, and only that choice is offered.

2. "Then I choose partition 1 (C partition in Windows?) right? Is partition 2 the D partition?"
Yes.
The partition arrangement is displayed in full and seems pretty straightforward.
In my case there is a Primary Partition C: of 6 GB.
Then there is the remainder of an 80 GB HDD as an Extended Partition within which are four Logical Partitions = D: [1 GB] E: [30 GB] F: [30 GB] G: [12 GB] with the size of each given.
It's pretty obvious which is D: etc.

3. "will I lose the ability to automatically make system restore points?"
No, what you do with IforD has no internal effect whatever upon Windows other than restoring a previous setup.
No, what I meant was would Windows realize that the recovery partition which it was supposed to make daily system backups to (and also backups before I installed a new program,) and lose the ability to backup until a manually made a new partition and figured out how to make it the recovery partition?

4. "Can I make a new partition and tell Windows to use it as the recovery partition after I restore?"
Don't know, never done that.
Why would you want or need to do that?
After all, your image backups become the new way to recover to this setup or that.
The recovery partition becomes redundant.
What I mean is the system restore points that are made daily and when you install a new program. These restore points already saved my PC once when an updated graphics driver installation went bad. My PC already came with a 9GB partition that Windows was already set up to make its restore points and shadow copies to. As I don't plan to make a new image every day, I'd prefer to have the system restore feature if something got screwed up.

5. "next I choose CD/DVD, and then Atapi"
I've never tried that so far, always use my USB2 HDD.
Perhaps I should try using a DVD rewritable disk on which to save an image.

6. "Then 2GB as the maximum file size"
Yes.

7. "so I can use my high-capacity Memorex DVDs even though the IFD bootable disk is TDK brand, right?"
Right.

8. "Validate image, yes"
I never bother to do that; never had this go wrong, so it seems unnecessary, and it takes so long to complete.
I believe Paul Komski thinks it is a vital check.

9. "Byte for Byte, yes. Is that what I'm supposed to do?"
I don't remember that as an option.
I believe the program copies cluster-for-cluster.
By that, I mean the byte-by-byte validation option. I know its probably a waste of time, but I don't want to restore with a chunk of config.sys missing :p

10. "will DVD+R Dual Layer disks work for the backup?"
I believe so; it can make backups to every kind of media I think.
Never tried it.

11. "would the ImageAll program, which is an add-on for IFD, save the recovery partition correctly?"
I was unaware of the existence of that Terabyte program, but if they say it will backup multiple chosen partitions I'm sure it will.
I would rather image each partition independently so that it becomes possible to restore this partition or that as I choose.
In your case you could restore the recovery partition separately, and only make a single copy.
I'd prefer just to have it all there. :D I have no idea how I'd go about adding this program to the bootable disk and having it run simultaneously as an add-on, but hopefully ImageAll with have a readme or something.

12. "Would Windows still recognize it as the recovery partition and correctly backup the system configuration to it after it was restored with IFD?"
I'm sure it would.

13. One thing to be aware of is...
If after making an image you were to change the partition sizes [using BiNG perhaps], and then try to restore the images to partitions which no longer fit...
Or to different partitions which are not a perfect fit...
If the partition is too small for the image, IforD will refuse to restore to that.
If the partition is too big, IforD will restore to that OK but the spare space will be unallocated and you'd need to use [something like] BiNG if you want to eliminate that unallocated space to make the contents fit.

Thanks for the information. Could you answer the questions in green?

Gecko 1123

12-01-2007, 01:21 PM

I checked the readme on ImageAll... for one thing, it doesn't tell you how to add it to your bootable disk. Doesn't give very helpful instructions at all, and I'm pretty sure its command-line based (I can't memorize all the commands for stuff like that :p )

How would I restore the D partition without deleting the C partition in the process?

Sylvander

12-01-2007, 04:46 PM

1. "No, what I meant was would Windows realize that the recovery partition which it was supposed to make daily system backups to (and also backups before I installed a new program,) lose the ability to backup until I manually made a new partition and figured out how to make it the recovery partition?"
The answer is still NO.
The business of making and restoring images does NOT change any of that.
But it does give you the ability to do things.
e.g.
(a) Windows would have included configuration settings telling it to make "Recovery Points", and where, and those would be included in the image backup along with everything else.
(b) Then when you restore that image those settings would be restored, so the "Recovery Points" would still be made.
(c) So long as you don't eliminate the recovery partition, Windows will be able to save to it.
(d) You COULD [if you decided] configure Windows to cease making recovery points [and make an image of that arrangement].
(e) You could also [if you decided] eliminate the recovery partition.
(f) You could save an image of the recovery partition before you eliminate it, so that at some future time you could [if you decided] restore it and re-enable the making of recovery points [or restore an image that included that configuration].

2. "I'd prefer to have the system restore feature if something got screwed up."
How do I get across to you that when you have images, you no longer need restore points?
In my opinion images are better than restore points, because an image includes the total contents of [perhaps all] the partitions, whereas a restore point DOES NOT.
If a problem falls outside the region [of files] covered by a restore point it will Fail to produce a fix; whereas an image covers ALL on the partition.

3. "I don't plan to make a new image every day"
There's no need; I don't.
Let's say your last image was made anything up to 14 days back.
If you restored that to fix a problem introduce today say, then you'd lose all the changes made since then.
So you jump back to the way things were 14 days ago; is that so bad?
How hard is it to re-do the things now gone?
Sometimes I'd rather do without some recent changes anyway, and only re-do those I really want.
Then I have Syncback that could be used to backup much more frequently, because it takes so little time, because it only needs to backup or restore the "differences".
But that's ALL the differences that you choose, not just some [goodness knows which] chosen by Windows.

4. "I know its probably a waste of time, but I don't want to restore with a chunk of config.sys missing"
You can choose to pay the high cost in time to eliminate ALL RISK, but it seems unnecessary to me because I've never so much as suspected an image or restore to be corrupted.

5. "I checked the readme on ImageAll... for one thing, it doesn't tell you how to add it to your bootable disk. Doesn't give very helpful instructions at all, and I'm pretty sure its command-line based"
Three articles on ImageAll (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/idx.php/45/0/ImageAll.html?pt_sid=8a2aae291d1db1509a8e7116feaab 20d).
How to Create a Bootable Restore DVD for Use with ImageAll (IDE/SATA-Based DVD Drives Only) (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/idx.php/45/264/ImageAll/article/How-to-Create-a-Bootable-Restore-DVD-for-Use-with-ImageAll-IDESATABased-DVD-Drives-Only.html?pt_sid=278f6bfa1c4e770b4754d1dabfaa11c3)
How to Create Bootable Restore CD/DVD/BD Discs from ImageAll Backups (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/idx.php/45/301/ImageAll/article/How-to-Create-Bootable-Restore-CDDVDBD-Discs-from-ImageAll-Backups.html?pt_sid=7bb1c1ca80d02e349d53a0cb8b7305 b3)
How to Use ImageAll with Image for Windows (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/idx.php/45/235/ImageAll/article/How-to-Use-ImageAll-with-Image-for-Windows.html?pt_sid=dabe45d4a82b80e21c9a1919f545fe b3)

Sylvander

12-01-2007, 05:03 PM

Oops, missed one.

"How would I restore the D partition without deleting the C partition in the process?"
If as I do, you make images of individual partitions...
You could use IforD [my favourite], or IforW, or BiNG to make or restore images.
You could then restore a saved image of D:, and save it to any partition you like, which would probably be D:
If D: was unchanged in size since the backup was made then no problem; if for some reason you'd changed its capacity, you could use BiNG to put that right, so the partition was a perfect fit to the image [not always essential, you might decide to live with some unallocated space].
This has no effect whatever on the C: partition.

Gecko 1123

12-01-2007, 05:24 PM

Ok, I don't have a floppy drive, and I'm not buying an external one. I'll use the normal version of IFD.

Thanks for answering that last question by the way, that means I don't need ImageAll and don't have to worry about getting it set up and working.

About the recovery points, I was just trying to say that I like having it as extra protection. I know images are better. Its just nice to be able to restore the system if the system files got screwed up with out having to restore everything to that time (with a restore image.) I think of an image as more of a last resort. I'd make an image backup every month or two, to protect my programs and system. The system restore will usually be able to at least make Windows bootable or fix a screwed up driver install (happened to me a few weeks after I got the computer) without changing my files. If it doesn't work, I can use the image.

Sylvander

12-01-2007, 06:47 PM

1. "I think of an image as more of a last resort"
NO WAY!
I do it as an ongoing routine.
My last image was made Nov 13th and restored Nov 14th to eliminate a Nov 13th install of "Ashampoo Office 2006" that I got for free.
[I wanted to get and test the installation then eliminate the installation and store the install prog]
I've used it to fix quite a number of problems, most of which I've forgotten.
e.g.
(a) I either make an image just before I install a program, or else leave installing the program until just after I thought it time to make a new image.
Then if I decide the program needs to be eliminated cleanly and completely [something wrong perhaps, or I don't like it] I restore the image made before the install. :)
Same with significant configuration changes.
(b) Moving from an older to a newer PC [did that just recently, and it helped a lot].
Able to restore images of all my data partitions to the HDD on the new.
Particularly my 1 GB D: partition that holds all my personal data files, like...
Emails & Address book for all users for use with "Outlook Express".
"My Documents" & "Desktop".
"Internet Explorer": "Favourites" & "Temporary Internet Files".
"Firefox Profile".
"Acerose Password Vault": auto backup of vault files.
(c) ANY KIND of misbehaviour by the software, could be anything, all kinds of things have happened and been fixed by restoring an image.

2. I like having it as extra protection"
I understand that, but it creates DUPLICATION.
That's one thing I don't like about making images; I can choose to store perhaps 6 to 12 images of C: and each one is almost identical in content to the next, so lots of duplication.
That's why I decided to try SyncBack, and that was a good idea.
SyncBack only makes ONE copy.
Then when I re-run the program it only takes a couple of minutes to find the "differences" and update the copy with those.
So that could be run many times a day if I felt it was appropriate, and the copies would be VERY up-to-date.
Those file copies could be restored AFTER a restore of an image to bring the files right up-to-the-minute.
The FREE version can do that to the files on the Windows partition with the exceptions of the [25] files in use.
The paid version can restore those [25] even with Windows in use.
The problem with SyncBack is that it only works within Windows. :(
And it only keeps an up-to-date copy, whereas I can have many copies of images from various points in time.

3. "fix a screwed up driver install...without changing my files
I assume you refer to your data files.
That's why I keep all my data files off the Windows partition.
When I restore an image of C: all the data files remain unaffected.

Gecko 1123

12-01-2007, 07:06 PM

Okay...well, thanks for the help, I think I can figure the rest out.

Sylvander

12-01-2007, 07:13 PM

xxxx OK xxxx :)

mjc

12-01-2007, 07:13 PM

An image is an exact copy of the drive (partition) at a given moment in time. As such, I don't think of things being duplicated. Because, in a way they aren't. Since it is a 'save' of everything, I look at it as a whole. It is a copy of my drive/partition on such and such date/time. Settings are the way I want them, drivers are all installed/working properly. Tweaks performed. So, unless there is a hardware change that image is going to work and be the same as when I made it. Even if I do something like drop in a new drive and restore the image to that.

An image made two weeks from now may be different as to drivers/tweaks/etc...so it isn't duplicating that 'perfect' one I made to day, because I changed something.

I also burn a 'good' image to disks and keep a couple on my hard drive. Every so often I burn a new one to disks. The ones I keep on the hard drive, I overwrite periodically. If I were to follow a rigorous schedule it would go something like this...fresh install of OS on this hardware configuration, tweak with usual tweaks, update to known 'good' drivers...burn that image to disk. That would be the base image. Then several weeks later, after the current driver releases have been checked out and any program updates done, create a new image, keep it on the drive and then at least once a month, make another one...keeping about three on hard drive and then at the six month point burn the current one to disk and start over with the 'stack'...but I don't follow that schedule that closely. And, yes, at least every so often, i image my 'data' partition, too. About the only thing I don't actually image is the 'download' partition...I do use 'daily' download folders (folder name is the date....120107 would be the folder I'd use for anything downloaded to day). I burn those to disk once a month...

Gecko 1123

12-01-2007, 07:24 PM

Version 2.00 is the newest version of IFD, right?

Gecko 1123

12-01-2007, 07:33 PM

I accidentally downloaded the older 1.99 too, the new one has an extra 1 KB file called cdboot.ins. The other one has IMAGEREG and the bonus ImageForLinux program, IMAGEREG being IFD, I assume. The IFD that you have to pay for allows you to get some of the updates in advance, I think?

Gecko 1123

12-01-2007, 07:41 PM

I'm running MakeDisk, and there are two check boxes, "Atapi DMA" and "Use Volume Seq." Which one(s) should I check the boxes for? And where it says license key (optional) and asks for a serial number, do I put in the order number for the paid version?

Sylvander

12-02-2007, 06:54 AM

"Version 2.00 is the newest version of IFD, right?"
I believe so [see screenshot 1 below].
When I enter my order number at the website I'm taken to a webpage listing all the latest program updates.
IforD English versions 1.99 & 2.0 are both listed.
Have you bought the paid-for version, or are you trying out the trial version?

"the new one has an extra 1 KB file called cdboot.ins"
Doesn't seem particularly significant.
I clicked that file, was warned I was about to change my internet browser settings, gave it the ok, and so far no ill effects.

"The other one has IMAGEREG"
Neither my original installation set [screenshot 2], nor the latest I've just downloaded [screenshot 3] include such a file.

"there are two check boxes, "Atapi DMA" and "Use Volume Seq." Which one(s) should I check the boxes for?"
I too now get those boxes, but don't know what they are about, and my old copy of the QUIKSTRT.PDF file gives no explanation; does your later copy?
The imagemanual.pdf includes lots of references to ATAPI CD/DVD devices.
e.g. My imagemanual.pdf says:
Creating a Bootable CD/DVD Restore Disc
As long as the file CDBOOT.F35 is in the same directory as IMAGEW.EXE [or Image.exe?], a bootable CD/DVD will
be created when burning directly to a CD/DVD drive. However, the CDBOOT.F35 file will only be
able to restore from an ATAPI CD/DVD drive on one of the IDE controllers. If you would like to
restore from another device, you will need to create your own diskette image with the appropriate
ASPI drivers and AUTOEXEC.BAT file to execute the image restore.
• This only applies when booting the CD/DVD created with CDBOOT.F35. You will be able to
restore from other CD/DVD drives under Windows.

"where it says license key (optional) and asks for a serial number, do I put in the order number for the paid version?"
Have you paid and been sent an email from Terabyte with instructions and a "Name" and "Key" to enter?

I remember when I first bought the software I found it all rather confusing, but somehow managed to get it all done and working, and then it subsequently was easy to use [once I'd learned a couple of tricks].
In trying just now to make the latest IforD bootable floppy I [like you] am being confused by the the tick boxes and info windows.
The imagemanual.pdf includes "Advanced Configuration" options for "IFD.INI".
Guess I'll need to start reading up on those.

Sylvander

12-02-2007, 07:28 AM

OK, just successfully burned "Image for DOS V2" to a previously erased CD-RW disk, as follows...

1. Accepted the agreement, ticked "ATAPI DMA", left the "IFD.INI" windows blank [the defaults are usually fine, and these alter the defaults], entered my "Serial Number" given by Terabyte at my account at their website, made sure the optical disk was in place and had been detected by Windows, selected/highlighted the DVD drive as the "target", and clicked "Finish".

2. The disk was successfully burned in a couple of minutes. :D :cool:
I'll now erase the disk since I'd prefer to use my floppy version.
Made a new bootable floppy.

Paul Komski

12-02-2007, 08:22 AM

The imagemanual.pdf includes "Advanced Configuration" options for "IFD.INI". For most systems these can be left blank. It can be a good idea on old systems to configure it for USB1.1 if that is what your system runs - but that is covered in the manual.

Sylvander

12-02-2007, 10:29 AM

1. Just used the version burned to CD-RW to make an image backup of C: to my USB2 HDD.
The new GUI gave me a bit of a start.
I liked the more simple version in the old prog. :(
Though the new one certainly does LOOK good.
I suppose I could become comfortable with the more complex GUI with all its choices.
One improvement is the simpler method for choosing the USB HDD partition & folder to backup to; fewer steps involved.
Also...
All the various configuration choices have been put on one window.
I just used the up/down keys to navigate and the spacebar to put an X in suitable boxes.

2. PROBLEM
The new IforD program version 2.00 [on both the optical disk and the floppy] makes TBI files [which I guess it can also restore], but TBIView doesn't recognise the file type and cannot display its content. :(

Tried installing the latest version of TBIView, but that made no difference.

Paul Komski

12-02-2007, 11:12 AM

The new IforD program version 2.00
Where did you grab this from.

I can only find v1.99 on the TBU site (http://terabyteunlimited.com/image.html):-
Product: Image for DOS Backup and Restore
Version: 1.99
Version Date: 12-Feb-2007

P.S. Version History at http://terabyteunlimited.com/upgradeimg.html

Sylvander

12-02-2007, 11:51 AM

Having paid for the product...
I went HERE (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image.html) [see screenshot 1] and clicked the link shown in green, which took me to HERE (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/product_download.php) where I entered my "Name" [the one I gave them and they quoted back to me in their email to me at the address I gave], email address, "Swreg Order Number: ?????????" [given me in the email].
I then clicked on "View Downloads" and was successful, therefore taken to a webpage displaying all the latest versions of programs available to me having paid for BiNG, IforW, IforD.
IforD v2.00 [see post #31 screenshot 1 above] & v1.99 (English) were both available.
Screenshots 2 & 3 below show some of the total including versions 1.99 & 2.00 (RC6)<-[whatever that means?]

Gecko 1123

12-02-2007, 08:22 PM

What is key.wri? I don't have that file in either version.

Sylvander

12-02-2007, 08:52 PM

Well spotted, I wondered whether you would. :)

I made that file, named it and saved my key in it so it would be easy to find when needed. :D

Gecko 1123

12-02-2007, 09:00 PM

Ok... so I want a single file set rather than multiple when I'm backing up, right? I also noticed that the ability to choose the file size is either gone or is called something else... It now has an option to back up the entire drive, though. :)

Sylvander

12-02-2007, 09:35 PM

1. "so I want a single file set rather than multiple when I'm backing up, right?"
You mean a single fileset for each partition and backup each partition individually?
Rather than backup ALL partitions on any chosen physical HDD [backup the whole HDD in one].
That's what I like to do because I think it's best because it gives flexibility.
But you must decide which best suits your inclinations or needs.

2. "I also noticed that the ability to choose the file size is either gone or is called something else"
Yes, can't say I noticed the option to choose the file size on this new/latest version 2.00.
I noticed the backup I made of my 6 GB C: partition was made in a single TBI file greater than 2 GB rather than making a set of files [IMG,001,002] each no greater than 2 GB.

3. "It now has an option to back up the entire drive, though"
Yes, always nice to have that available, especially if you really want to use it.

Gecko 1123

12-02-2007, 09:44 PM

At one point during the setup for the backup, it asks if you want a single file set or multiple file sets. Which did you choose? If you chose single, that might've explained why it made one TBI file, but I'm not sure.

Paul Komski

12-03-2007, 03:44 AM

Thanks Sylvander. The download page won't let me in with my own order number so I have eMailed TBU directly for information etc.

The only references I can see to RC6 are to do with cryptography.

Sylvander

12-03-2007, 07:29 AM

"a single file set or multiple file sets. Which did you choose?"
I wasn't offered that choice; probably because I didn't choose to backup the whole physical HDD, only the Windows partition C:
Then on the "Backup" configuration choices window...
[Paul...it would be nice to have a mouse cursor, wonder how that would be added]
I used the tab key, spacebar, up/down arrow keys to navigate through the choices...
4 GiB, 2BiB, 698 MiB, 648 MiB for the maximum file size.

Paul
Any idea what I might do about the fact that the latest version [2.00] of IforD makes TBI files instead of IMG files and TBIView won't display the content of TBI files, but only IMG?

"The download page won't let me in with my own order number"
Might be any of the 3 articles of information that is incorrect.
(a) Name...must be the same as the one they told you to enter as part of your "keycode" = "Your keycode is: [Name]"???? ??????.
(b) Email address...would be the one you gave them and they posted to.
(c) Swreg Order Number.. as quoted in the email.