Suspension springs?

[Mini-Me]

As I am also a car-nut in the weekends when not fixing people's computers during the week, i have a question for any mechanics here:

I have a '75 Vauxhall Viva which has just had it's front-end rebuilt.
Now the driver's side sits lower then the passenger side when no-one is in the car.

The difference in height between the two front wheels is 30mm.

Q: Can suspensions springs lose their compression ability(become weak), or can you over-compress them?

When I put them back in, I did not mark them as left or right side, as I assumed they were identical, and I remember sitting them side-by-side on the bench, and they were at the same level, sitting there, uncompressed.

I used an arrangement consisting of some strong ratchet-tie-downs to pull the springs down to put them back in, as I did not have a suspension-spring compressor per se'.

Is it possible I pulled the driver's side one down to much?(over-compressed the spring?)

Could the shockies(shock-absorbers) be the problem?
I would not have thought so, as the springs are the bits that really are responsible for keeping the car level, and the shockies absorb any shocks from bumps and pot-holes.(the springs do that in unison with the shockies, I suppose I should say...)

[PrntRhd]

More likely a spring is not completely in its seat.
You were lucky the tiedown did not loosen, you can get killed handling compressed springs in that manner.

[Whyzman]

Were these shock absorbers of the "strut" variety?? It sounds like they are with your description of spring compression...

If the springs are not returned to the identical position on the "spring seats" it can affect the height of the strut tower assembly.

[Whyzman]

Absolutely dangerous!! I recently replaced the struts in my van and bought a cheap set of spring compressors from Harbor Freight for about $12.00...you get what you pay for... Nearly had the first one compressed using my impact wrench when a piece of the metal hook on one of the spring compressor broke off... There was one flurry of excitement as I backed those things off in record time. Invested in some heavy duty Sears/Craftsman spring compressors for about $70.00...no issues! :)

[Mini-Me]

More likely a spring is not completely in its seat.
You were lucky the tiedown did not loosen, you can get killed handling compressed springs in that manner.

Springs correctly seated. I made sure of that, before I released the tie-down.
I've never heard of anyone being killed by springs slipping when compressed in this way. I have no doubt that it would hurt, if you were in the way, but killed?

[Mini-Me]

Were these shock absorbers of the "strut" variety?? It sounds like they are with your description of spring compression...

If the springs are not returned to the identical position on the "spring seats" it can affect the height of the strut tower assembly.

Upper and lower suspension arm struts, yes.
Shockies connect the upper and lower struts.
The shockies are positioned inside the springs.

[Mini-Me]

Absolutely dangerous!! I recently replaced the struts in my van and bought a cheap set of spring compressors from Harbor Freight for about $12.00...you get what you pay for... Nearly had the first one compressed using my impact wrench when a piece of the metal hook on one of the spring compressor broke off... There was one flurry of excitement as I backed those things off in record time. Invested in some heavy duty Sears/Craftsman spring compressors for about $70.00...no issues! :)

I agree there is risk in compressing suspension springs, but here in NZ, it cost about $60($30 or so in USA dollars) for a CHEAP compressor, and for only one set of springs, I figured it was not worth the expense just to compress two springs, then the compressor would most likely not be used again.

However, I hear what you are all saying about the danger.

[Whyzman]

The other thing, is that you need a front end alignment following the replacement of the struts. It could possibly be that that the car looks strange because the wheels are off-set and need to be readjusted "vertical."

[david eaton]

Those springs are not identical At least, the ones on me old Viva were not. they are handed, one right hand and one left. Which one is which tho' "that is the question"!
While you could have strained one, I would put money on it getting tired. Nothing to do except replace it.

[Mini-Me]

The other thing, is that you need a front end alignment following the replacement of the struts. It could possibly be that that the car looks strange because the wheels are off-set and need to be readjusted "vertical."

Yep, full front-end re-alignment done when all reassembled.
I knew that had to be done, but thanks for making sure.
:)

[PrntRhd]

I have a close friend who had a spring let go off a compressor when he laid it gently on the floor & left a nice inch deep divot in the garage concrete and bounced around in the ceiling rafters before coming back down.
I have heard of springs that actually went through the roof.
There is a lot of stored energy in a compressed spring.
If your arm or head was between the spring and where it was headed you might not be around any more.
:eek:

[Whyzman]

If David is correct and there's a true left/right...any chance they're versa-visa??

[Mini-Me]

Those springs are not identical At least, the ones on me old Viva were not. they are handed, one right hand and one left. Which one is which tho' "that is the question"!
While you could have strained one, I would put money on it getting tired. Nothing to do except replace it.

Dave - would it be worth while do you think, if I swapped the springs left-to-right? I most likely put them in the wrong side, due to the fact that I did not mark them, thinking they were the same...

If you think this is worth while, I will do it.
I will buy a proper spring compressor if I have to do them again.

I actually considered putting lowered springs into it when rebuilding, but decided at the last minute, to put the original springs back in.

I'm wondering now, if that was such a smart move...

If I have to replace one, I will replace both and put a lowering kit in there.

[Mini-Me]

I have a close friend who had a spring let go off a compressor when he laid it gently on the floor & left a nice inch deep divot in the garage concrete and bounced around in the ceiling rafters before coming back down.
I have heard of springs that actually went through the roof.
There is a lot of stored energy in a compressed spring.
If your arm or head was between the spring and where it was headed you might not be around any more.
:eek:

Good point.
Fair comment.
Yes, right at the limit of the tie-downs to pull them down - they are REALLY strong springs!

If I end up having to take them out again, next time I will buy a compressor for safety.

[Whyzman]

Oh, and yes, the coil springs can become weak. How to know?? Nothing springs to mind :rolleyes: time for some Google searching... ;)

[Mini-Me]

If David is correct and there's a true left/right...any chance they're versa-visa??

Absolutely.

I actually think this is what I have done, personally...

[Whyzman]

http://www.springworks.com/faq.html

"HOW are Coil springs inspected?
The most common method of coil spring inspection is checking the vehicle ride height. Measure! Don't rely on eyesight alone! This method will only catch the extreme cases of spring sag or leaning. In addition to checking ride height, look for these signs, which also indicate the coil spring requires attention:

Examine each spring for stress cracks, missing coils, or shiny spots between coils.

Damaged bushings, bump stops, or MacPherson Struts.

Front end of vehicle nose dives when braking or vehicle sway. Spongy ride.

Vehicle that commonly carry extra weight, resulting in unlevel condition most of the time (family transportation, work trucks, and sales fleets)."

[Whyzman]

I be thinking...that's a whole lotta work if that's not the problem. If you were to call an auto parts store to order now coil springs...perhaps they'd be able to provide some info as to whether they have different part numbers...

[Mini-Me]

Yeah, Whyzman, you're right.
I THINK i'll just ignore it unless it sinks even further.
It is not a warrant issue unless it is VERY badly different on one side from the other.

Here in NZ, we have six-monthly warrant-of-fitness checks that the car has to pass, before you are allowed to drive it on a public road.

This differs from the American method, as I understand.
My sister married an American, and according to them, in USA you have to register your car, but there is no warrant-of-fitness/safety check legally required on a six-monthly basis.

I see it as just a way to get rid of as many cars from the roads as they can, so that they can import more Japanese 2nd hand cars.

There are less and less older cars on the road here, and it's a shame, cos I like the older cars, but they are much harder to get through the warrant.

So, as the "Slightly lower on one side then the other" is not going to stop it passing the warrant test, so...

I just like things to be right - kinda a perfectionist of sorts.

[awaj]

We do have to get the car inspected every so often (I think yearly), but I think it's more then 6 months. There are also ways to get out of it, like declairing the car an antique, or driving less then x miles.

[mjc]

This differs from the American method, as I understand.
My sister married an American, and according to them, in USA you have to register your car, but there is no warrant-of-fitness/safety check legally required on a six-monthly basis.



This varies by state...time between inspections/what is considered 'passing'/what is looked at...all different everywhere you go.

[Sylvander]

1. "Can suspensions springs lose their compression ability(become weak)"

(a) Only if you were to heat the metal above the magic [very high] temperature that would ruin their previous heat treatment [Tempering]. If that was done the crystal structure of the steel would alter, almost certainly for the worse. But I guess there's no way that was done.

(b) The other possible way is that the the metal be subjected to excessive Strain [and Stress][excessive deflection from its normal shape] that takes the metal beyond its "Elastic Limit" so that there is plastic deformation. If that happens, the metal is on its way to failure. It's most unlikely that was done [practically impossible by compressing such a spring].

(c) The two springs aught to be of equal "Spring Rate" [deflection per unit force].
To achieve that the metal of both springs would need to have identical characteristics of metal [Tempered Spring Steel I assume].
Also identical diameter of the [round?] bar from which the spring is formed, and of identical shape.

[bassman]

Mini-Me, I did a bit of Google searching but came up empty on actually seeing a set of front springs for this car. The basics of coil springs, whether they be a MacPherson strut (a fully intergrated suspension component), a coil-over shock, or a stand alone spring with the shock simply mounted inside the coils will be the same. Compressing them is dangerous, (this has been discussed), they are best evaluated by spring rate (pounds per square inch to compress), and typical problems with them is most likely not visible.

As David pointed out, these springs are handed. This would indicate that the vehicle was heavier on one side at curb weight. One spring had a higher spring rate to compensate this extra weight. Putting them in the wrong side would obviously result in differed ride height. leaving things this way will place unnecessary wear and fatigue on ALL of your suspension components.
I highly recommend replacing these older, worn springs with new, properly placed ones.
Good luck with your project ;)