Beginners ??? about Partitioning

[TheAnt]

I am really trying to understand all this stuff....you gots....primary, extended, logical partitions....active & non-active....etc. etc. Whew http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif !

I just read the great articles here on the PC Guide site going into partitions but I also searched many sites trying to find an answer to my most simple questions which possibly the computer wizards assumed a beginner might know (I don't)......

At first, I thought a "program" has to operate "within" an operating system but then, I read often in partition articles that "programs" can be in their own "separate" partition. Is this possible?

I want to create 4 partitions on a hard drive (using Partition Magic):

C - Operating System & system utilities (Windows)
D - Programs (like photoshop, word, video editing, etc.)
E - Storage (photo & video files)
F - Storage (documents & miscellaneous files)

Again, will the "programs" function in a separate partition? What would be the scheme? OS would be primary, Programs are logical, and both storage also logical?

You see, my confusion is, that I thought a partition meant "totally separated" and could not be accessed by another partition.

If anyone can clarify this, I would be most grateful http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Byrus]

I don't know much on the part of logical, extended, primary, etc... but I will tell you that you can install a program on a seperate partition, or even on a seperate harddrive, and it will definately work properly. The important things that your operating system needs to know about running those programs will be stored in the system registry automatically when you run the software install.

But it seems to me like your partitioning scheme might be a little overkill. I could possibly understand having one partition for OS and Programs, and a one for storage. Most of the time we just create new folders to organize our stuff.

-Byrus

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If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer.

[Whyzman]

Hello to TheAnt,

Welcome to the PC Guide Forums!!

There is some excellent material that would be sure to help you under HELP on PARTITION MAGIC. Just open and click HELP>CONTENTS>GETTING STARTED>PARTITIONING BASICS. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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Whyzman

[TheAnt]

I have only read that it is suggested to have the OS on its own partition. I do know that programs like photoshop & a video editing application are intensive in that they fragment your drive pretty fast. Some of the advantages that I read about partitioning are, that you can defragment your individual partitions quicker and backup just a certain partition, or if something happens to files on one partition (corrupted or whatever), the other partitions not affected whereas just having files in different directories, they would still be on that same drive and defragging and entire drive could take much longer (I got a single 60gb hard drive). It was helpful to finally know that it is in the "registry" that enables the programs to run, even though they may be on a separate partition. If there is any other info about partitioning that I am missing, anyone out here is welcomed to post!

Thank you Master "Jedi" geeks. I am humbled by your presence. I am just a mere "Learner" geek.....one day maybe I will acquire that elusive "geek force". http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by TheAnt (edited 12-27-2001).]

[iisbob]

Hmm, to fully explain partiioning you need to know about file allocation tables ( FAT, NTFS,etc.. ).

originally the earlist versions of operating systems didn't need very much space ( there were'nt any thing like harddrives in my youth http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif ) then as OS's begin to grow, and associating programs-more storage space was required and a way for the OS to organize and find the program and it's associated files.

With me so far? http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

First came along FAT12 ( still the comon file system in use on floppies ), then FAT16, which supported hard drives up to 2GB's, which at the time it was intro nobody thought you'd ever see one that big.

Well,....then harddrives began to get larger-so a way was devised to " partition " or seperate the drives into large chunks that Windows could use ( 2 GB was the limit for FAT 16 remember )in 2 GB's partitions. Since HD space was growing and geting cheaper this quickly became a problem- imagine having 30 2GB partitons on your 60GB drive!! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif

There was also some BIOS issues going on in here ( with windows ) on maximum recognizable hard drives sizes ( you may here a phrase called interrupt 13 bandied about-but that's another tale! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif ).

Anyways, they intro'd FAT 32 in Windows 95B, allowing hard drives up to 2 terabytes to be supported ( though in reality the cluster sizes would be so huge you'd have a lot of wasted space.)

The best use of FAT 32 is for harddrives >1GB but <8GB, as the partion size gets below 1GB, FAT32 wastes clusters, as it gets over 8GB, same thing occurs, though not as much.

Then along came NTFS ( NT file system ) which is more secure than FAT, less apt to coruption ( read -defragmentation )and has the ability to " actively " heal itself.

With that advancement came the word that NTFS will suport up to 2 exobytes-a really, REALLY, large amount of space. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

OK, with those basics down here's where it's important to know about partitions. If you have a 60 GB drive, using the FAT32 system-you're probably wasting about 2-300mb's of space, no big deal since you've got GB's to spare, but if you partition it into say, 2 30GB'sa-you regain some of that wasted space because now FAT32 has less storage space to keep track of.

Kinda get the idea now?

Peruse Charles site ( PC Guide ) where he has some more excellant detailed explanantion on these terms & their use.



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iisbob
""I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know."
Mark Twain

[TheAnt]

Originally posted by iisbob:
OK, with those basics down here's where it's important to know about partitions. If you have a 60 GB drive, using the FAT32 system-you're probably wasting about 2-300mb's of space, no big deal since you've got GB's to spare, but if you partition it into say, 2 30GB'sa-you regain some of that wasted space because now FAT32 has less storage space to keep track of.

Kinda get the idea now?

Peruse Charles site ( PC Guide ) where he has some more excellant detailed explanantion on these terms & their use.


Yes, Yes....I am starting to get a clearer understanding! Doing this research, I am even just barely getting the idea of primary, extended, logical partitions, etc. Oh no! It looks like I am on my way to Geekdom Land! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif (but still a long journey ahead).

I have WindowsXP (yes, I clean installed all by myself http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif ), with the 60gb hard drive, however, with NTFS (not FAT32). I wonder if NTFS has that "wasting space" thing similar to FAT32. Anyway, if I choose my planned partitioning option, it is generally agreed that a "program" can be on a "separate" partition and the OS on "another" partition? Per Byrus' post above....it is in the "registry" where the action/party http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif takes place with regards to program operation?



[This message has been edited by TheAnt (edited 12-27-2001).]

[sea69]

good info here (http://www.anandtech.com/guides/viewfaq.html?i=94).

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif



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[Paleo Pete]

Micro Firmware (http://www.firmware.com/support/bios/fdisk.htm) has a good description of the fdisk rules, and along with it a pretty good description of how partitions work.

As for your original question, yes, programs will run if placed on a separate partition, provided the OS is on the Primary DOS partition and it is set as active. I'm running a machine with two physical hard drives, and Primary Master has two partitions. I can run games or other programs on the secondary drive just as well as on C, or use it for storage with no problems.

With larger drives I prefer to use multiple partitions instead of one drive, allowing separate areas for storage or programs, and it lets defrag run quicker too. If you have problems with Windows you can also just format C and whatever is stored on other partitions stays put. Reinstalling programs might be necessary though, since registry entries will no longer be there.

The primary partition is the active one, and the OS usually must be installed htere, on a single OS machine. (I won't go into multiple boot...) the same physical drive can have one Extended partition, and it can contain logical drives, which although on the same physical drive show up as separate drives as far as DOS or Windows is concerned. Similar to the way a hardware modem uses a virtual COM port. The OS sees it as a COM port, but no physical COM port is actually there...

Confused yet?? http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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[TheAnt]

I think, I am starting to see the "light"!

To isolate the programs into another partition, I wonder what would be the ideal way or different ways to do it? (I would be using Partition Magic/not installed yet) First, un-install the programs and just have only the Operating System in Drive C, then create the separate partitions? Afterwards, re-install the programs in the other partition?

Or, if the programs are already installed in Drive C, then in Windows Explorer, can I just "drag and drop" the programs into the other partition?
Since drive letters will be changed during all this "moving around", I wonder if that is a potential minor problem of Windows not being able to find the programs in the new location?

[sea69]

Partition Magic Pro 6 and up have 'wizards' that will do all that for you.

you must be patient when using this program, it takes awhile on some operations.

I just used it- see this (http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000325.html) thread.

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif



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homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)


;)~

[TheAnt]

Thanks for referral to other post/thread!

Actually, I have Partition Magic 7 and not the Pro version. According to their guide book, Pro has three added features: Remote Agent, Scripting, &
Command Line Switches. I do not know what all those do. Anyway, hopefully as you stated, PM wizards will allow me to do all this program & file switching onto other partitions. Again, i'm getting a little nervous about doing this. If I screw-up, I can always re-install everything (I got my important stuff backed-up).....even Windows XP, which was really intense for me to do something that major (for a novice-type).....I did the XP new/clean install instead of just the XP upgrade.....so, second time should be easier.

I guess, I should just install PM 7 and start studying the interface style & read their help menus. Again, my fear is that all this drive letter changing during partitioning, may cause some bugs (programs not recognizing new drive letters). I have a CD-Rom drive and also a CD-RW drive and those two items, I absolutely need to be working with my Roxio Platinum CD Creator program!

Well, you know how it is......we get stressed & over-cautious about doing "new" computer procedures, but if you survive it, it is an incredible learning experience!!! (which no school or book can really teach you)


[This message has been edited by TheAnt (edited 12-28-2001).]

[iisbob]

I've got both PM6 and PM pro7; the is a program called " drive mapper", set it too run after doing your partitions-it will re-associate programs with the new drive letters. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

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iisbob
""I was gratified to be able to answer promptly, and I did. I said I didn't know."
Mark Twain