Is it possible my case is shorting out motherboards?

[ThaiGold]

O.K., first I was having This problem. (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=64187)
I got a new CPU and MB, and built the system up from the old parts: RAM, HDD, CDROM, VGA, etc...

It was running fine for three days, no problems at all. So I decided it was time to close up the case and put it in the shelf. The first boot went OK, PC was then shut off. But then the next time I booted the machine it got stuck on the BIOS identification screen. A few restarts yielded nothing new, sometimes it lagged on the BIOS screen, sometimes it was just after that right before Win loaded. I started by checking the HDD's, 2 SATA's. The primary a Western Digital and the secondary a Seagate. I removed the WD and the Seagate booted fine. After a little rearranging to see if it was the wire or the port maybe, the Seagate is eventually doing the same thing.
So I took them both out and started at the very beginning. A CPU, MB, and VGA with one stick of RAM. When it booted I just got one long beep that sounded like the Keyboard was stuck, it wasn't. It beeped about 15 seconds straight before I turned off the PC. when I tried to restart after re-seating the RAM, nothing. No beep, no screen, nothing but spinning peripherals. Right back to my problem in the original link.

The question is can it be the case that is shorting out the board or something. I know if the board is touching the case that can be bad, but that's not what I mean. I have a case fan on the side and a LCD display on the front for the temperature. would one of those possibly cause a short. The fan I doubt, but the display I thought might be possible since it goes directly to the board.
It just seems that the onset of my board problems (this is the 3rd board in 6 years) always coincides with me plugging the side of the case into the PC. Normally it would be off and disconnected for easy access, it has been for the past year until I started overheating. So I cleaned out the inside, redid the fans and wires, installed a new CPU fan and closed up the case for circulation, that was when the last board died (the link above). I can even attribute the first board dying in a similar fashion, case open for awhile, shortly after closing her up the board dies.

I just can't see anything else that might be causing this, I mean the build ran mint for three days and now this.

(This is where the smiley blowing his brains out belongs, but there is none.)

[Heartborne]

the first thing I would check would be the grommets on the motherboard tray. Did you install the grommets before screwing in the motherboard? If not, yes, your case is absolutely shorting out your motherboard.

Also, is the case on a carpet? Static could be ruining your hardware.

Finally, is the cpu heatsink/fan installed correctly? Grab it and try to wiggle it. Does it move? If so, your cpu is overheating. Reinstall the heatsink/fan.

[ThaiGold]

Grommets, those are the cardboard washers? The techie who originally built it the first time never put any in, so I always assumed my board was one that didn't need them because of the plastic it rests on. I'll be going out later for small parts I'll be sure to get a handful of those anyway. Should they sandwich the board, go above it, or go underneath? It rests on plastic so I would think I only need them on top between screw-head and board, right.

And there is no carpet, I have hardwood floors. I dusted and vacuumed for three days before I started, while I was waiting for all the parts. While installing the board, before putting it in the case, I never removed it from the foam anti-static pad and I had it on top of a cardboard box.

The heatsink, I must say, has to be on correctly. Although I had to use different brackets then the diagram called for. I am certain they had the brackets wrong in the installation manual. I came across many posts that had the same problem. The diagram for the 478-hookup was for 775 actually, and the diagram for the 775-hookup was actually the 478. I installed it to both chips so I came across it twice. Putting it on the 478, the long brackets they said to use were just way too long, the bracket for the 775 fit perfectly on the 478. and the same goes for vice versa. 775 chip, the bracket was way too short, but the one they said was for 478 fit perfectly.
But it does not budge or wiggle. When I first booted, my PC BIOS read 87 degrees for the CPU, I believe. After leaving it running a day, I rebooted just to see the temp and it was at 93 consistently. I kept touching the heatsink and every time it felt cold to the touch. Not "not hot", but cold. My old build would routinely break 100 just on startup before cooling down. The thermal paste was most certainly a full application. I thinly covered the ENTIRE chip without side leakage, when I first took it off, only about half of the area had paste on it, that was from when the techie put the second board in. So I did a better paste job then he did.

[ThaiGold]

My other thought is maybe the PSU. I have been reading a lot of posts regarding overpowering from too high-powered a PSU. I have a 550Watt Antec, which I always thought I needed. Originally, adding the pieces I determined I need over 400, but I anticipated more components so I got the 550. Using the calculators that are available today, I usually come up with between 3-400.
As well as the main components, I have 2 SATA HDD's, 2 internal ROM's and one external USB ROM. I run 4 small fans plus the side-case fan and the CPU fan. Then there is the LCD display on front for temp.

I believe 550 to have been working fine for the build in it's entirety. But the thought never crossed my mind, I was using a 550 at the PC's barest moment's, when a 200Watt would have done the trick. Thinking about that, it really worried me. Is it just. And should I maybe go down to a 450?

[jlreich]

No, having too big of a power supply is not really an issue unless you are way over. Say if you had a 1000W PSU, then it might be an issue. More likely you would need to go into the 1200W+ range for it to become an issue.

[Heartborne]

Grommets are not washers. They are the hexagon-shaped screws that you have to mount to the motherboard tray before installing the motherboard. Washers are not necessary, though it is good practice to use them.

It's not likely that you could overpower a system with too powerful a psu, unless that psu is defective.

A cpu should NEVER read that high. But if the heatsink is cold, you have an entirely different problem. Why is the BIOS reading such high temperatures for your CPU? Are you sure the fan on the heatsink is running properly? Also, after powering on the unit the heatsink should at least be warm. Maybe the cpu is not getting enough power.

[jlreich]

If the CPU HSF feels cool, it is either cooling well or not at all. Since your temps are so high (assuming Celsius?) I would say the HSF is not installed properly.

[ThaiGold]

A cpu should NEVER read that high. But if the heatsink is cold, you have an entirely different problem. Why is the BIOS reading such high temperatures for your CPU?

Really? 93 degrees Fahrenheit is that bad? I thought it was pretty good, my old build would consistently run around 97, it would safety shut-off if Intel's Internal Monitor reached 125, which I had lowered from 140.
I am not talking in Celsius here, you realize right.

[ThaiGold]

Since your temps are so high (assuming Celsius?)
Wouldn't that be over 200 Fahrenheit. I would expect my CPU to leak out side from melting.

No, I am only talking in Fahrenheit. I think it was 40 degrees in Celsius, but since I live in America I normally only deal with fahrenheit, I pay no attention to what Celsius says.

[jlreich]

Well that is much better. :p

Most computer people think of temps in terms of C, regardless of location. That's fine if you like F but you should specify by using C or F after the temps so there is no confusion. :)

[ThaiGold]

Well that is much better. :p
you should specify by using C or F after the temps so there is no confusion. :)
Sorry, will be sure to do.

[ThaiGold]

Did you install the grommets before screwing in the motherboard?

I asked the techie at my local shop if they had grommets for a motherboard and he looked at me funny. Had no idea what I was asking about and even said, "Do you mean washers?". I explained my situation and he still did not know what I meant.

Googling grommets, I don't see the relation.

From what I get, they are the rubber things you use if you say, cut a hole in the back of a desk for wire-neatness, you would install a grommet in the hole and then put the wires through.

There is some other kind of grommet? Can you find a picture of what the screw looks like? I know the screws holding in my HDD's and ROM's are hegonal-shaped. Could these be what you are referring to?

[jlreich]

I believe what Heartborne is trying to refer to is motherboard standoffs.

http://www.cybergooch.com/tutorials/images/buildsystem/IMG_6805.jpg

[ThaiGold]

I believe what Heartborne is trying to refer to is motherboard standoffs.

http://www.cybergooch.com/tutorials/images/buildsystem/IMG_6805.jpg

Yeah those are what I was thinking he was meaning. Those are in the computer.

I brought it in to the shop for diagnostic and specifically told them to try to see what is shorting and why if anything is. It will be cheaper then I thought it would be since they only charge the $80/hr labors fee for data backup and nothing else.

So if something of interest comes up I will be sure to close this thread with the info.

Thank you guys, all of you, for the info and ideas.

[ThaiGold]

Strangest freaking thing, nothing was wrong with the PC.
The techie took my PC and hooked it up without changing anything and it booted up fine for him. When I got it home it has worked fine since, about ten boots over 5 days. So it looks good to me so far.

Can't for the life of me figure out what is going on when it refuses to POST, though.
But if it works I'm happy.

Thanks for the info and help guys!;)

[mjc]

OK...there are two main causes for that kind of behavior. Loose connections are probably the biggest one. The second, this is the one that can be potentially hazardous, is a problem with the mains power. Overloaded circuit, faulty wiring, etc...

[ThaiGold]

It has been a year and for those following who have the same problem, I post this.

I still have not found a reason for this problem. The only cure I have ever found is time. The problem persists frequently for me, not still in this PC (although it does still work and occasionally do this) but I have even had it in other systems. Swapping, reseating, RMA'ing, whatever. Nothing has ever worked to fix this except to leave it fully connected for several days except for the power cord to the tower. After say 7 days I plug it in and *poof* it works. Sometimes.

Has anyone found a definite fix for the problem here?

[Cuc Tu]

Have you checked your mains power supply?

Perhaps your power company if giving you unstable and dirty power.

You can also get good line filtering systems.