Unusual Problem with Notebook--May need data recovery!

[Scarlett]

Most unusual problem I've ever encountered--and I don't have a backup! I know, I've been intending to do it, and I know where the road paved with good intentions leads! But if you will help me out here, I promise that I will do backups faithfully from now on! :)

I have an 8 year old Dell Inspiron 8000 notebook that is my main computer. It has email, Word documents, and photos from the past 8 years stored on it somewhere--unless they have been overwritten accidentally. Here is what happened:

1. My Internet connection went down, requiring a reboot of the cable modem.

2. Before I reset the modem, I shut down my notebook computer, knowing that I would need to restart it in order to pull a new IP address from the router.

3. After the modem was reset, I started my computer, and it appeared to boot normally. However, when Win2K Pro started, I got the message that no personal settings could be detected, and I should contact my System or Network Administrator--that would be me! So I clicked on OK and was presented with a desktop that in no way resembled my desktop of the past several years! There were maybe 10 icons total, rather than the 50+ that had been there before--not to mention all the Quick Start icons in the lower tray!

4. We were on our way to dinner, so I shut down the computer before leaving. When I came home, I restarted the computer, it appeard to boot into Win2K Pro as usual, but the resolution had been changed to its native 1600x1200, and again I had only a minimal number of icons.

5. When I tried accessing the Internet, I got the Internet Connection Wizard, which I completed and was then able to access the Internet. However, I have no documents, no email, no pictures, no nothing!

6. It appears that a completely new OS has been installed and has overwritten everything that was on the hard drive! However, I have not installed anything at all. The only thing I did was to invoke the Last Known Good Configuration--and that was only after I discovered that all data on the hard drive had mysteriously disappeared!

No one else has been in my house, no one else ever touches my computer, I have both a hardware and a software firewall, and I am at a total loss to arrive at a logical explanation for what has happened to my hard drive! The one thing that completely confuses me is the "apparent" reinstallation of Win2K Pro on the hard drive! I have never even opened the reinstall software that came with the computer from Dell. I could better understand the problem if the computer would not boot into Windows at all. But to have what appears to be a fresh install of the OS is beyond my comprehension. And to further confuse the issue, some of the icons left on my desktop are shortcuts to very recently installed software! I do not know whether the shortcuts actually point to that software, because I have done as little as possible on that computer--I simply left it in its present condition and came to another computer to ask for help.

Ironically, I had planned to buy a new 2.5" hard drive tonight, then decided I would wait until tomorrow for the Fry's ad. I intended cloning my notebook hard drive, because it represents the last 8 years of my life! Priceless! If this were a desktop computer, I would remove the hard drive and put it in another desktop as a slave drive to see what data might be there. However, I have no idea what to do with a notebook hard drive--and because it does boot into an OS, I'm afraid what I am going to need are data recovery options. Please let me know if you think there is any hope for me.

Many thanks!

Scarlett

[Scarlett]

Sorry! I forgot to mention that it is a 60GB IDE hard drive, single partition, formatted under FAT32, rather than NTFS. I don't know why--that's the way it was done when I got it from Dell. It was nowhere near full, even though it has 8 years worth of data, some of which is irreplaceable--but isn't that the way it always is when you don't have a backup!

Please let me know if I have left out other important details.

Scarlett

[classicsoftware]

Click on My computer
Click on Drive C
Click on Documents and settings
Choose the user name that you want to logon with
your documents are there. You may not be able to access them now.

Let me know what happens.....

[mjc]

Yeah, it seems that your "last known good" just happened to the 'clean'/fresh install...

Since there were no changes to hardware/etc you should even be able to copy the StartMenu to the new user profile, too.

[classicsoftware]

I think you lost access to your user account. Please try the steps I outlined.

[Scarlett]

I think you lost access to your user account. Please try the steps I outlined.Thanks, Classic! The only user a/c that showed my documents, desktop, etc., was the one with my name.bak--which indicates a backup, does it not? Under Documents and Settings, I have the following files: Administrator; All Users; LBD; LBD.bak; LB~1; New Folder; and a PDF file for the 531CF mainboard (?!)--don't know where that came from.

When I click on each of the files under Documents and Settings, I get nothing within each of them with the exception of the LBD.bak folder. That folder has the following folders: Cookies; Desktop; Favorites; My Documents; Start Menu; and a couple of Windows documents that I can't open--one of them is labeled "logo." As far as I can tell, all of the documents are there, as are all of my pictures. However, I have been unable to locate my email.

My question now is, how do I replicate all of these files and folders and documents and pictures, etc., under my LBD user name--and not the LBD.bak user name?

I am 90% relieved to find that I can find these documents, but the other 10% of me selfishly wants access to my email, too! I do not understand how this happened, but I am so happy that you knew what I needed to do!

I am buying a new notebook hard drive tomorrow without fail, but I don't know what, if anything, I need to do in order to prepare it for a full backup, or to clone my currnet hard drive. I have never done either of those in all my years of computer use! I definitely am on borrowed time before my first total hard drive crash--and I thought I was there tonight!

Any additional information will be appreciated!

Scarlett
p.s. Computer is now turning off by itself. When I restart it, I get the screen that tells me the computer is in use and locked. When I enter the password for user LBD, it lets me back in; however, as I mentioned above, there are no documents in the LBD folder--only the LBD.bak folder!

[Scarlett]

Yeah, it seems that your "last known good" just happened to the 'clean'/fresh install...

Since there were no changes to hardware/etc you should even be able to copy the StartMenu to the new user profile, too.Thanks for the response! You probably are correct; however, please see my reply to Classic's instructions. If I need to set up a new user profile, how do I get all the documents, favorites, start menu, etc. copied to the new user profile?

Also, any suggestions on how I can find all of my email? I have never been able to locate that file in order to change its name and location! It is buried deep within the Registry!

Many thanks!

Scarlett

[Paul Komski]

Since your data is the most important thing to you I would suggest you stop accessing this hard drive for the moment. Something has happened to the drive or the file system or there is malware on board that has made everything unstable. An instability that is causing misbehaviour and the "duplication" of user accounts.

I suggest you physically remove the drive for now and when you get the new drive reinstall an operating system to it. (Dell has good guides to all their laptops should you need to see how to remove the drive).

Next get yourself a 2.5" enclosure or converter cable. You can get both USB to 2.5" (that will allow you to connect the drive to your laptop) or 2.5" to 3.5" converters (to allow the drive to be added to a desktop's IDE slot).

At this stage if you want to be doubly sure of having a copy of the problem drive make an image of its partition onto your new drive using BiNG or GetDataBack. Let us know if you find any of this hard to do.

Only then access your old hard drive directly to look for your data. (Omit imaging if you want to but only you know how valuable your data is). Navigate to the various User Accounts under the Documents and Settings Area and attempt to "Take Ownership" by changing the security permissions (http://www.mcmcse.com/microsoft/guides/ntfs_and_share_permissions.shtml) if you are denied access to any folders.

Post back here for advice if still not getting where you want to be or try running GetDataBack (http://www.runtime.org)(for FAT or NTFS as appropriate) from another operating system or installation to see if it can find your files if all else has failed.

PS
An alternative approach (assuming you have a floppy or CD drive and a way of connecting a 2.5" hard drive via USB) would be to clone the whole drive to the new one. CopyWipe (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/copywipe.php)does this in a very straightforward manner. With an older laptop you may only have 1.1 USB speeds in which case all imaging is going to require patience (an overnight job even). You can then experiment and repair on the clone and leave your problem drive alone as backup for the time being.

[classicsoftware]

Since you can access the files and you are getting a new laptop. This is what I would do.

1) Follow Paul's advice and stop accessing the drive.
2) Purchase 2.5" USB drive enclosure.
3) Set up your new Laptop.
4) Install the old drive in the enclosure.
5) Attach the old drive into the new system.
6) Read this article on Taking Ownership of Files in Windows XP (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308421).
7) Navigate to the files on the USB drive and copy them to the New Laptop
8) Search for PST files on the USB drive and copy the PST file to your New Laptop.
9) Point Outlook to your copied PST file.
10) Once yo have gotten your data on the New Laptop, reformat the old drive and use it as a backup device for user files.

[Paul Komski]

Unless I missed it, I think it was just a new laptop hard drive that was on the way and not a new laptop.

BTW - An enclosure like this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817145329) or a converter like this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812203012) would allow the drive to be attached to a desktop PC via USB or IDE as was thought not possible in the OP. I would still recommend the first action to be to image the drive after removal from this system.

[classicsoftware]

My bad. Just alter my instructions slightly....

[Scarlett]

Unless I missed it, I think it was just a new laptop hard drive that was on the way and not a new laptop.

BTW - An enclosure like this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817145329) or a converter like this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812203012) would allow the drive to be attached to a desktop PC via USB or IDE as was thought not possible in the OP. I would still recommend the first action to be to image the drive after removal from this system.You are correct, Paul--I am buying a 160GB WD 2.5" hard drive from Fry's for $60 today! Yesterday they offered me a 120GB Fujitsu for $80, and I figured 40GB more for $20 less was a bargain! :-) Unless, of course, the Fujitsu is superior to the Western Digital. Comments?

I do have a new Dell laptop, but it is running Vista (which I hate!), and I am considering replacing it with XP Pro--even if MS is going to stop supporting it. I am still running Win2K Pro on my old Inspiron 8000--which is the one with the problems. Would you advise installing XP on the new hard drive rather than reinstalling 2000? I think it has a 900MB CPU and 500MB of RAM. Is that enough for XP?

At the very least, I know that my documents and photos and PDF files are present and accessible from the LBD.bak file folder. I already have an external USB 2.0 enclosure for a 2.5" drive, so I can get the removal of the HD done immediately, and then install it in the enclosure. I'll run out to Fry's then and get the new hard drive which I can install. However, all of that is hardware-related. When it comes to the software part, that's when I need someone to hold my hand! I am horrible when it comes to software! That's why I've never done a backup, imaging, or cloning of a hard drive--I simply don't know how! I've been lucky up to this point, but I am scared now, and I WILL learn how to do these things--with your help. :-)

Let me know about the Fujitsu vs. the WD hard drive ASAP. In the meantime, I will be removing the hard drive from my Dell and installing it in the external enclosure.

Many, many thanks to both Paul and Classic!

Scarlett

[classicsoftware]

You have to see if there are drivers for XP for the laptop at the Dell website.

Also, why do you have Vista? What are the specs of your system. I haven't done power testing, but the test drives I have had have been very impressive.

[Scarlett]

...Search for PST files on the USB drive and copy the PST file to your New Laptop.
9) Point Outlook to your copied PST file...What are "PST" files? Do they have something to do with email?

I replaced my 60GB laptop hard drive with a 160GB hard drive. Is it likely that my laptop will not recognize all of the space available on this larger drive? I hadn't thought about that before, but I doubt that I could have found a new 60GB hard drive--although I didn't try.

I haven't turned the laptop on yet--wanted to wait until I could get more information on what exactly I will be doing. For instance, I'm not sure what you mean by "XP drivers" from Dell. Aren't XP drivers included with the OS?

One other small, I think, problem is that my USB external enclosure is not big enough physically for the hard drive I removed from the laptop. It is too thick for the enclosure--just slightly larger than the new hard drive. I have managed to use the USB connector, and the hard drive is sitting on top of the enclosure. Won't that work just long enough for me to tranfer the data files? I will need to find a "taller" enclosure if I want to use the old hard drive for data backups. It is an IBM Travelstar, and I have anoher IBM Travelstar that is the same thickness as the new hard drive. What would cause one IBM HD to be thicker than the other?

It is late here, and I think I will go to bed and leave this project for tomorrow. Perhaps things will be a little clearer for me then! :-)

Thanks again!

Scarlett

[Scarlett]

... why do you have Vista? What are the specs of your system. I haven't done power testing, but the test drives I have had have been very impressive.I think you are asking why I hate Vista (I have it because it came on my new Dell 1521 laptop), and the best answer I can give you is because I am unfamiliar with the GUI. And there is no more Outlook Express--just Windows Mail. Since Win2K is still my comfort zone, it's a big change for me. Doesn't have anything to do with power or performance. I just don't care for the interface.

Scarlett

[Paul Komski]

PST files are the files used by Outlook for its data. Different folders hold the store for Outlook Express or other eMail client. Where and what to look for are dependent on which eMail program you have been using. Which was it?

You could certainly try a peep at the contents of the old drive "cobbled together to part of the new USB enclosure" on your Vista Machine. Since the partition is FAT formatted, Vista should have no difficulty accessing any data on it unless the file sytem is badly corrupted. If the drive is recognised OK attached to the daughter board of the enclosure then just copy everything to a folder on the Vista machine (assuming there is enough space on it) as a first step. Then start hunting for your data files. With a drive exposed like that just take care not to touch the internal electonics nor allow it to short against something that conducts electricity. Maybe just pop it into a plastic bag to give it some sort of "shell" for now.

Alternatively clone the lone FAT partition to the new drive as a primary or secondary move. CopyWipe (referenced earlier because of its simplicity) should be straightforward to use as long as you understand the very basic difference between copying and wiping and can see and distinguish the two drives (one internal and one via USB) from one another and do the copying from and to the correct drive. If you go this route I suggest you use the option to keep the partition the same size for the time being and don't expand it to occupy the whole of the new hard drive. This should result in a workable (if flawed) installation of Win2K on your new drive with the old one having all the data on it still available as a backup. A 'smallish' partition (under 127 GB) is unlikely to have problems with recognition by a laptop with BIOS of that vintage and running Win2K on a single partition at the start of the drive.

Installing WinXP onto the Vista Laptop should really be addressed in a separate thread. It is however likely that all the drivers will not be on a WinXP installation CD and you will need to, and can, download them from Dell for an Inspiron 1521 Laptop (http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/driverslist.aspx?os=WW1&osl=EN&catid=-1&impid=-1&servicetag=&SystemID=INS_PNT_PM_1521&hidos=WLH&hidlang=en&TabIndex=).

[classicsoftware]

Go to this page (http://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.aspx/support/product_support/product_support_central?c=us&l=en&s=gen). Put in your express service code and you will have access to all of the available drivers for the Inspiron 8000. Download and unzip them and burn them to a CD. Be careful to name them something that you recognize.

[Scarlett]

PST files are the files used by Outlook for its data. Different folders hold the store for Outlook Express or other eMail client. Where and what to look for are dependent on which eMail program you have been using. Which was it? I have always used Outlook Express, because it is simple, and I have never felt the need for anything more powerful or with more features.

You could certainly try a peep at the contents of the old drive "cobbled together to part of the new USB enclosure" on your Vista Machine. Since the partition is FAT formatted, Vista should have no difficulty accessing any data on it unless the file sytem is badly corrupted. If the drive is recognised OK attached to the daughter board of the enclosure then just copy everything to a folder on the Vista machine (assuming there is enough space on it) as a first step.Where do you suggest that I create the folder on my Vista machine? Should there be separate folders for documents, photos, and email? Of course, I've never been able to find my email anywhere other than Outlook Express, and that no longer exists on the "bad" hard drive. I am hoping the .pst files will be on the "bad" hard drive somewhere that I cannot see at the present time. The documents and photos are readily accessible from the folder "LBD.bak" on the "bad" HD. I'm a little confused as to why I am copying files to the Vista computer in the first place. Ultimately, I hope to have the files restored to my Inspiron 8000 laptop, and I have discovered that Dell does not have XP drivers for that model! The latest drivers available are for 2000 (or Red Hat Linux 7--and I'm not going there!), so it appears that I will be reinstalling 2000 Pro on the old laptop and copying the data files bck to it. I don't remember which BIOS was installed on the Inspiron, but it seems it was either A23 or A30. I need to find out if that BIOS will recognize hard drives as large as 160GB. If the information is not on the Dell Support page, it is sometimes difficult to obtain! I usually have better luck with Google--or asking here. :)

Then start hunting for your data files. With a drive exposed like that just take care not to touch the internal electonics nor allow it to short against something that conducts electricity. Maybe just pop it into a plastic bag to give it some sort of "shell" for now.Done!

Alternatively clone the lone FAT partition to the new drive as a primary or secondary move. CopyWipe (referenced earlier because of its simplicity) should be straightforward to use as long as you understand the very basic difference between copying and wiping and can see and distinguish the two drives (one internal and one via USB) from one another and do the copying from and to the correct drive. If you go this route I suggest you use the option to keep the partition the same size for the time being and don't expand it to occupy the whole of the new hard drive. This should result in a workable (if flawed) installation of Win2K on your new drive with the old one having all the data on it still available as a backup. A 'smallish' partition (under 127 GB) is unlikely to have problems with recognition by a laptop with BIOS of that vintage and running Win2K on a single partition at the start of the drive.Am I supposed to install the new OS on the Inspiron before I clone the old hard drive to the new drive? I do know the difference in copying and wiping, and I think I will be able to tell the difference between the internal and external drives. I have looked at CopyWipe briefly, but I will need to download it on a different computer, and then burn it to CD to use on the Inspiron--won't I?
Installing WinXP onto the Vista Laptop should really be addressed in a separate thread. It is however likely that all the drivers will not be on a WinXP installation CD and you will need to, and can, download them from Dell for an Inspiron 1521 Laptop (http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/driverslist.aspx?os=WW1&osl=EN&catid=-1&impid=-1&servicetag=&SystemID=INS_PNT_PM_1521&hidos=WLH&hidlang=en&TabIndex=).Hmmmm....are you suggesting that I would be installing XP as an "additional" OS on the Vista laptop, or simply replacing the Vista OS with an XP OS? Installing XP as an additional OS and making the laptop dual-bootable is not a bad idea--and I agree it should be addressed in a separate thread, which I will start after this current problem is solved. One project at a time! :)

I guess I will go ahead and turn on the Inspiron just to see what it looks like. Then I will do some more reading on CopyWipe. I will wait to hear your response to my questions before I proceed.

Many thanks!

Scarlett

[Paul Komski]

CopyWipe Notes and ScreenShots (http://paulski.com/zpages.php?id=1614).

The default store folder for Outlook Express is usually in the relevant Identity under the Documents and Settings area (http://www.insideoe.com/files/store.htm). This store folder (typically called 'Outlook Express' and which contains a number of .dbx files) should be copied in its entirety to any backup location. Note that sometimes its contents contain hidden files.

There are a number of ways of pointing a new installation of OE to the backup copy and this is most easily and successfully done if the same version of OE is used. There are other workarounds to enable the .dbx files to become the mail folders as seen from within OE.

I don't think it matters where you create the backup folder but just a folder called backup in the C: drive should do the job. The first priority as I see it is to get the data backed-up. Playing around can then follow at your leisure.

"Am I supposed to install the new OS on the Inspiron". This isn't necessary for the cloning to take place using CopyWipe, the DOS version of which runs outside of windows. You may want to reinstall completely once your data is safe but that is another issue.

Adding or replacing XP on the Vista box, we agree, will be in another thread.

[classicsoftware]

For information on where your Outlook Express files are stored, please read this (http://www.neoseeker.com/Hardware/faqs/kb/18,70.html).

Once you are all setup, save yourself some trouble and get Thunderbird. (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/thunderbird/)

[Paul Komski]

The default store folder for Outlook Express is usually in the relevant Identity under the Documents and Settings area (http://www.insideoe.com/files/store.htm).

[Scarlett]

I'm still here! This is what I have done so far:

(1) Bought and installed a 160GB hard drive in the Inspiron laptop--the BIOS detects only 137GB. I'm pretty sure I have the latest BIOS version. Is there any way to make it "see" the other 23GB?

(2) As Paul said, "cobbled" the old hard drive with the USB connector and attached to my Dell Latitude D600 laptop. I have been able to access some software and my pictures so far. All of my data files appear to be in the LBD.bak file on the old hard drive.

(3) I have not yet tried to find my email, but thank you both for the info regarding Outlook Express. I hope that will enable me to locate the folder where all my email is stored!

(4) I have not installed another OS on the Inspiron laptop, but when I do, it will be Win2K. I have only 500MB of RAM in the Inspiron--that's the max for that system--and XP wants a minimum of 1GB. Recommendations at the Dell Forums are against XP for this system.

(5) I have downloaded Copywipe and unzipped it. However, I have been unable to locate the makedisk.exe file that was referenced in the CopyWipe Notes that Paul gave a link for. There is an executable file, and it may be the makedisk.exe file I am looking for. I haven't tried running it yet, but I will do so tonight.

(6) I don't know how to make an Image of my hard drive. I would need to download GetDataBack to my Latitude laptop, but the Inspiron hard drive is in the (partial) USB external enclosure. I told you how useless I am when it comes to software, didn't I? :)

If I managed to make an Image, where would I put it? I will have used the CopyWipe CD to clone my old hard drive onto the new hard drive, and I will have done nothing by way of formatting or partitioning the new hard drive. At least that's what I think at this point. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks again for the help!

Scarlett

[classicsoftware]

The manufacturer of the hard drive should have overlay software that will allow you to use all of the hard drive. I have used it in the past w/o issue. Please check the website of the hard drive manufacturer.

Your old laptop will perform better with 2K than with XP.

1) Install the drive and set up the drive with the manufacturers software.

2) Install Win2K

3) Run Windows Update and install all patches and service packs.

4) Attach the old hard drive to the Inspiron VIA USB

5) Either partition your drive with the data being on a separate partition. or make a data folder off of the root. Place all of your data here. Don't allow Windows to bury your data all over the place so you can't easily find it. Make sub folders under the data folder/drive for word documents, pictures, e-mail, etc.

6) Copy your data from the old hard drive to the new hard drive.

7) Run the system and make sure all of the data is present & the system is functioning.

8) Once you are sure step 7 is complete, either get a new enclosure or figure out how to put the old drive in your present enclosure.

9) Reformat the drive.

10) Backup all of the data from the new drive back to the old drive.

We can discuss regular backup strategies once you are up and running.

[Paul Komski]

Looks as if you downloaded CopyWipe for Windows and not the DOS version which is the one needed to create a floppy or CD.

Use a HDD maker's DDO if you like but neither I nor 48bitLBA.com (http://www.48bitlba.com/faq.htm#FAQ4) nor the link there to Charles's material go with it as a first choice. It may be a quick fix but does store up potential problems for the future.

A BIOS upgrade (if available) is generally preferable but you may have the latest one (http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/driverslist.aspx?os=WNT5&osl=EN&catid=-1&impid=-1&servicetag=&SystemID=INS_PNT_P3CG_8000&hidos=WW1&hidlang=en&TabIndex=) (22 Jan 2004) and if that is the case you are limited to the first 137gig. That actually shouldn't be a problem as long as you simply ignore and are prepared to sacrifice the unseen/"non-visible" 20 odd gig at the end of the drive. Just don't partition the drive with it attached to a 48bit capable enclosure or PC; (external enclosures have their own BIOS/Firmware that enable the full size to be utilized on otherwise incapable systems).

The OE store folder is likely to be at:
Documents and Settings\LBD.bak\Local Settings\Application Data\Identities\{????????-????-????-????-????????????}\Microsoft\Outlook Express
Despite the dot in its name note that LDB.bak is actually a folder and you should ensure that your system's Folders Options are set to show hidden files. If still no joy just search for Outlook Express and/or *.dbx the files contained within the store folder.

You have a choice of a clean installation onto the new drive or of simply trying-out a clone/copy of the old onto the new drive. You could keep the same size partition for now and it is likely that if it doesn't function that you might correct things by running chkdsk C: /R from a command prompt or the recovery console. I just would never run chkdsk with write functionality until important data is backed-up since you can lose data with such disk-checking when the underlying FS or disk surface is corrupt.

Making an image file of a partition (rather than cloning a whole hard drive) can be done in at least two different basic ways. The images made by GDB are literal forensic clones and would occupy the same disk space as the original partition. They would need to be put onto NTFS partitions if larger than 2GB (which includes any unused space). Images made by the TBU utilities BiNG and Image for DOS v1 are "literal" compressed and spanned images. These are re-expanded and stitched back together when restored to recreate the original. Other, so called images, are generally compressed archives of file copying mechanisms. Such "archive images" are inferior from a data recovery perspective than those that record every data sector of the partition, sector by sector rather than file by file.