upgrade or buy new

[juice1000]

Hey i was wondering if anyone could help me out with my computer. I have a sony vaio that is decently old and has trouble running newer games.

Here are the specs:pentium 4 cpu 2.00GHz 2.02 Ghz, 504 MB of ram and 9200 se radeon graphics card(i think) and about 30 gig hard drive.

Those are the specs to the best of my knowledge i dont know too much about that sort of stuff but im wondering are there a few things i could upgrade to be able to smoothly run newer games (IE starcraft 2 soon) or should i consider just going ahead and buying a new computer all together. If i were to buy a new computer my budget would probably be a little under $1000.
Thanks for any help

[IM back!]

buy new there isent much to save as that system cant support a new cpu and only has agp.

[astoroth88]

Yea, I'd be happy to list some parts for you. Do your prefer intel or amd processors and Nvidia or ATI video cards? would you prefer to spend as much as possible without going over $1000, or keep it as low as possible while still being able to play modern games?

[juice1000]

i dont really have a preference on processor brand or videocard, i dont know too much about this stuff so i guess what ever you guys think works better. Also lower cost is always better but i would like something that wouldnt have a problem playing modern games without having to lower all the graphics and stuff. Thanks

[astoroth88]

Well, ATI/AMD has better bang for your buck, I can list you a good list of parts for maybe 600-700. here is a quick list for the tower itself, tell me what you think

Case (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811124115)
CPU (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103773)
Mother Board (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186150)
RAM (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820144073)
DVD Burner (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827140028)
Video Card (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102775)
Power Supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817182151)
Hard Drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148335)

Remember this is just the tower, you still need a Monitor, speakers, keyboard and mouse. All of this is $682.93 Newegg.com has no taxes, and all the parts I chose are free 3 day shipping.

[juice1000]

yea i still have a monitor and everything, but thank you that was very helpful. I do have two more quick questions though; as for operating system id need to buy vista or xp right? i couldn't just load it from my old pc or anything? also i liked everything except for the case( im not sure why but i really want one with clear/lit up side) will pretty much any case i find work or should i look for some particular size or anything like that?
Thanks again.

[mjc]

Take a look through the cases here...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000090007%201054808287%201295819209%204027&name=%2475%20-%20%24100

or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000090007%201054808287%201295819209%204026&name=%2450%20-%20%2475

That basically gives you a 150+ options...covering the $50 to $100 price range of cases that Newegg carries, without power supplies. You should be able to find one you like---:D

Here's the ones in th $50-$75 range with free shipping...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2000090007%201054808287%201295819209%204026%2048 08&name=Free%20Shipping

[astoroth88]

CLEAR SIDE CASE (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811156211) (how bout that one?)

you technically can use your old hard drive, but if you try to put in a new sata hard drive (guessing yours is IDE, IDE is old flat grey cables.) they will conflict and you can't boot. but if you're satisfied with your current hard drive, you can put that in instead of buying a new hard drive. personally I'd just back up your music, pics, movies, etc.. onto dvd's or thumb drives and put them onto the new sata hard drive.

As for your OS, if you have your XP disc and key still, stick with xp. If you don't have the discs, try finding some and use your key. Personally I like XP Professional, Vista is to demanding for what it does. Granted Vista has Directx 10 but it's not worth considering how demanding the system requirements are.

[hockey man]

Try this for RAM it is good stuff and it is a little cheaper.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820220227

Also, you are going to need an OS for that PC. Vista HP 64 bit maybe?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116488

[astoroth88]

Honestly hockey, the one I suggested is cheaper, no shipping on mine. The only thing he would be gaining for paying for the extra shipping of that patriot is a smidging of better latency, nothing really noticeable. Plus the GEIL looks cooler ;)

Also he should just stick with XP, it's easier to use, doesn't demand that much and vista even though x64 is still a hardware hog. DX10 isn't that much better anyway, which is the only selling point of vista IMO.

[hockey man]

XP/ Vista is sort of preference right now. I really do like my XP Pro machine. I think though that Vista is just a little more future proof at the moment.

The RAM I liked to has a $20 mail in rebate. The GeIl costs $63.99. The Patriot $63.99- $20.00 Mail-In Rebate =$43.99 +3 Business Day Shipping $6.99 = $50.98. So that comes to a $13.01 difference.

[astoroth88]

lol, depending on rebates, that's like depending on bush to fix the economy...

[juice1000]

awesome thanks a lot i think im going to with all of what astoroth88 said except with that clear side case. Also if you couldnt all ready tell this is the first time ill be building my own pc so can any one point me towards a good guide on hooking everything up? Also i still would need a sound card and ethernet card correct? am i forgetting anything or with all that should i be good to go?

[mjc]

The motherboard has on-board 8 channel sound and a 1G Ethernet so, unless you really want to bump things up or go wireless you don't need any other cards.

[juice1000]

awesome i think im all set thanks everyone

[saphalline]

Also he should just stick with XP, it's easier to use, doesn't demand that much and vista even though x64 is still a hardware hog.Purely opinion, even by your own admission. Don't present your opinions as fact, please.

lol, depending on rebates, that's like depending on bush to fix the economy...Rebates can and do work. It's a lot of effort for most of us relative to the money we get back, but don't discount them entirely based on the supposed fallacy that you can't depend on them. Reputable companies will correctly process rebates. Less reputable ones won't. That's the way it works.

DX10 isn't that much better anywayIncorrect. As a modern 3D rendering API, DX10 is superior to DX9, just as DX9 is superior to DX8, on down the line. Also true for OpenGL versions, Glide versions, etc.

[astoroth88]

I've had Vista 64 bit, it's too demanding on what it can do, it's not worth needing at least 2gb of RAM just to play a game such as Battlefield for it to run. Direct x 10 is hardly a graphical improvement as I've used it on Crysis as well, not much a difference if you ask me. I've been screwed out of many rebates from "reputable".

[saphalline]

I've had Vista 64 bit, it's too demanding on what it can do, it's not worth needing at least 2gb of RAM just to play a game such as Battlefield for it to run.I can certainly respect your opinion there. The sheer amount of RAM required for modern gaming on Vista does seem rather steep! From my perspective, I see 4GB RAM kits selling for less than $100 USD these days, so the cost to give Vista the enormous amount of resources that it needs is tolerable. Relative to what RAM used to cost for contemporary Windows versions, it's actually a lot better! I remember the $300 USD I had to pay to give WinXP its 768MB of RAM back in 2001! :eek:

So I certainly agree with you, up to a point. And that point is that this is all opinion, not fact. It is not a fact that giving 2GB of RAM to Vista is not worth it. Not worth it to you... I'll buy that. Not worth it in general... No.

Direct x 10 is hardly a graphical improvement as I've used it on Crysis as well, not much a difference if you ask me.As to this little misunderstanding, I can offer some information. Crysis, even in DX10 mode, only makes use of a few native DX10 rendering calls. The rest of its non-DX10 rendering calls are necessarily DX9-class. Vista is based entirely on DX10, using a DX9 emulator (DX9L) to perform non-DX10 render calls. This incurs a tremendous performance hit because Vista must essentially run two renderers at once: one for DX10 calls, one for non-DX10 calls. Because a majority of Crysis' rendering calls are DX9-class, a majority of the rendering workload is performed using the slower DX9L emulator. Thus Crysis, a so-called "DX10 game", is largely being rendered using an emulator. :rolleyes:

Currently, the only true 100% DX10 program is 3DMark Vantage. Notice there is no way to run it without DX10, and thus no way to install it on anything but Vista. Unfortunate that DX10 is getting such a bad reputation, but this is understandable considering the development time for modern games is roughly 5 years. DX10 is only 2 years old (release) or about 3 years old for developers (they get this info ahead of time). Ironically, with DX11 now on the horizon, and being more desireable for game developers than DX10, most game developers are likely to skip DX10 entirely and go for broke with DX11. Expect more DX10+ games in 2H 09.

I've been screwed out of many rebates from "reputable".I'm sorry to hear that. I personally got burned a lot by rebates in the past, as well, so I tend to ignore rebates when shopping for myself (as I'm sure you do). But I do know a goodly number of people that go the rebate route and are approaching 3 years of successful rebate experiences. I can't comment for you, obviously.

[jlreich]

You can currently pickup a 4GB kit of Corsair DDR2-800 for about $50 after MIR. :eek: I have actually seen it at $40. Can you believe $10 a GB? Insane! Even at $70 full price you can't complain. ;) Heck I remember about 7 years ago paying $70 for a stick of generic 256MB PC100, and was happy to get it at that price. LOL.

I have had very good experiences with MIR's. I was stiffed with one about four years ago even after submitting it twice, but have received every one since. I went through my MIR folder (you do keep copies right?) and added them up a few months ago and come up with something like $600 over the last few years. Not too shabby. :cool:

I always look at the requirements of the MIR before I purchase. If it has a bunch of hoops to jump through I don't bother buying it. Fill out your name and address, copy of invoice, and original UPC. Anything more than that and they are trying to get you to screw up so they can refuse your submission. I have seen some MIR's at tiger direct that you would have to be a trapeze artist to jump through all those hoops. :p

[saphalline]

I always look at the requirements of the MIR before I purchase. If it has a bunch of hoops to jump through I don't bother buying it.I know that I won't get around to filling out a rebate. I just won't. I've bought many things with rebates over the past couple of years, even going so far as to print out the form! - but I never ever finish it. Just wasted time to me. $10 here, $30 there? Hmmm... what could I be doing with my time instead?... :p

$600 is indeed a triumph! But compared to how much you spent? ;) I don't know, just personal preference, based on my past behavior.

[jlreich]

If you are one that will never fill them out I wouldn't bother with it either. But I figure $30 for 5 minutes of my time? I can do that. I certainly don't make that kind of hourly wage at my work.

[astoroth88]

DX11 huh, first I've heard of it, of course I haven't gone in search of stuff like that in awhile. Yes, it's a personal opinion that vista isn't worth the cost to run it properly for gaming, but I'm sure he won't be using any really high end games that will give a big graphical improvement with dx10 on them. If he wants to go with vista w/e but personally I don't like it atm. I have XP Media Center so I have no use for vista at the moment, maybe in the future when vista has all the bugs cleaned out and DX11 is released and I have my rig up to full power, I will get vista back on my hard drive. Untill then though, I do not have any use for it.

[George Hallam]

when vista has all the bugs cleaned out

what do you mean by bugs exactly?...

[jlreich]

I haven't had any issues with vista on my system. Most of the problems I have seen with vista is from those that bought systems with vista preinstalled by an OEM early on. My wifes laptop crashed constantly until I wiped it and installed fresh. It hasn't crashed once or given any other problems since. My daughters laptop that she got back in June has been fine.

I like vista, but there are only a few reasons to go vista. One is if you are a hardcore gamer and want DX10. The other is going 64bit so you can have more ram. Support for more ram is the more compelling reason for me. Having 8GB ram is great when I'm running a virtual machine. :)

[saphalline]

but I'm sure he won't be using any really high end games that will give a big graphical improvement with dx10 on them..True. You could certainly make an argument for that, especially since 100% DX10 games do not yet exist (in which case you are by necessity running games partially through an emulator right now). The emulation aspect matters much less for those of us with gobs of hardware to throw at Vista (I've since upgraded to 4GB of RAM! :cool:) of whom juice1000 could now be named given the hardware that is planned to be purchased, but that still doesn't default anyone to one OS or another. One of the benefits of building your own is choice!

I have XP Media Center so I have no use for vista at the momentAh! I didn't see that in your sig! That's a good point, actually, made even more so by Vista's DRM requirements (which haven't been quite as bad as the Doom-Sayers predicted but...). And I certainly agree with jlreich as to the two main reasons for a home user to use Vista: DX10 and 64-bit native kernel code. As to the former, that's a lock-in; there's no other way to get DX10 without Vista and gamers need to consider that. As to the latter, we do have more choices! None among the Windows variants (WinXP X64 is a joke!) but there are a great many more 64-bit native operating systems out there that don't start with the letter 'W'. ;)


maybe in the future when vista has all the bugs cleaned out and DX11 is released and I have my rig up to full power, I will get vista back on my hard drive.Any "bugs" that still exist in Vista should be considered features at this point. ;) Vista is a huge stray from the string of Win9x through WinNT compatibility layers, and hence is going to break a lot of programs. This was by design. M$ wanted to break a few things in order to modernize their OS base. There's no denying that certain programs outright fail to work, and that some work with 32-bit Vista (a logical oxymoron if ever there was one!) and not 64-bit Vista. That's the way the cookie crumbles. Going 64-bit hurts, just like the move to 32-bit hurt. And in more than one case (such as driver updates for HP printers :rolleyes:) the "bug" was not the fault of M$, other than the fact that they dared to released a new OS. And with SP1 tested and stressed and under our belts, what you see right now with Vista is what you get. So far for me, personally, Vista (even before SP1) is proving to be slightly more stable than WinXP SP2. SP3 came along too late for me - I'm done with WinXP at home now. 64-bit is here to stay.

Your second point about DX11 and waiting brings up an interesting idea. There are quite a few people who are opting out of Vista entirely! Given the fact that M$ is teasing us with Windows 7 so soon (perhaps as early as 18 months from now??) maybe you should consider skipping Vista yourself. The next version of Windows will undoubtedly have DX11 (M$ is shining it up as I type) and will solidify Vista's "bugs" as "features" :p so why not just go for broke? (( DISCLAIMER: Skipping Windows versions is not advised for anyone but professionals!! ))

[cmeyvin]

HAHAHAHA yet another lecture from saphalline. You did quite a research on directX right there.