Vista and Windows 7

[pop pop]

I guess this is a multi-part question.

When I came back from Japan last March, I had no computer...everything was in transit. I went and did something I kind of regret, I wanted a new laptop (sold the old one years ago) and the only OS available was Vista. I liked the laptop in terms of hardware. I hated Vista...still do. That means I almost never have used it--HP Pavilion Special Edition, dual core, 3 GB RAM...not even sure what version of Vista but it's not basic and it's not Ultimate. I hate the nag pop ups, UAC, the fact that it does not recognize my pay AV (Kaspersky...it is working) or my firewall (Comodo...it is working).

I hesitate to get any MS product when it first comes out, but Vista just stinks. Yeah, maybe if I spent more time on it I would figure out the kinks, but I don't want to have to...simple as that. If I wanted to do that, I would spend all my time on Linux...which I used to until a kernel update blew up while I was in Japan.

To the point...does anyone know if there will be an easy upgrade/update path from Vista to windows 7 at a reasonable price? I assume drivers will be a typical PITA. How's the beta at recognizing hardware and getting the basics working...graphics, networking (wireless and wired), sound, etc.

Thanks

[mjc]

A lot of those issues are addressed here...

http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=67937

[pop pop]

I had read that thread. Yes, questions like AV and firewall are answered (Comdo claims Visat compatibility, Kaspersky 7 does not, 9 does). Thanks for the reminder about the thread, I went back and read it again.

I still wonder about the $$ of a change from Vista to W7.

[mjc]

Too early to tell...I was reading something on MSWatch about it, MS hasn't pinned down any amounts yet, let alone given any confirmation on exactly how many versions there will be.

Release is still about a year away.

[Paul Komski]

If you have Vista Business or Ultimate you should be able to downgrade to WinXP (assuming you can grab all the drivers for XP).

http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=543
http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/microsoft_news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=205101355

Dell have taken advantage of this ability (over here anyway) and will now allow a new PC (running say Vista Business) to be shipped running WinXP and with both the installation CD and DVD for both versions. I have paid the extra €50 to allow this now for half a dozen clients. Ironic isn't it that you have to pay more in order to downgrade.

[jlreich]

Supposedly vista drivers are going to work in 7. They are the same kernel, so they should. Early reports are that they are working for the most part. I have been running it in a VM and haven't installed to disk yet. Probably won't get around to it until I am on vacation in a few weeks.

You may be one that hates vista regardless (Paul does :p ), and that's fine, but it has been out for over two years now and the kinks have been ironed out with the exception of certain hardware configurations that vista just doesn't play nice with.

If you decide to fire it up make sure it is updated including SP1. If it doesn't have SP1 on it already go through windows updates until it offers you SP1 because there are some prerequisite updates you need for SP1 to install. One of the downfalls of SP1 is if there is a problem keeping it from installing it won't abort until it is almost finished, wasting your time.

And don't forget to update chipset drivers and such.

And turn off UAC! I am certain you are not one that needs UAC running.

[Paul Komski]

You may be one that hates vista regardless (Paul does )Never a truer comment made. I've no problem with those who need it for gaming or are happy with its glitz and eternal 'are you sure you want to do that' prompts. It's not for me because it gives me absolutely nothing that I want and get from WinXP and just as with everything Microsoft it was released too early and with too much hype. Its possible that 7 will be to Vista what XP was to 2K but even that comparison isnt fair because 2K was a very stable affair and just a bit stodgy and unglamorous compared to XP.

[mjc]

Paul, it's looking more like ME/XP than 2K/XP when comparing 7 and Vista. Both releases seem to have been driven more by decisions from Marketing than from any other department at MS

[pop pop]

I have friends who are geeks like me and they said Vista was fine. I took a chance and I have to say I dislike/hate it more than any OS I've run in all my computing life. If it wasn't for what I paid for the laptop, how much I like the hardware, and my concerns about drivers, I would slick it and put XP Pro on it...although I cringe at paying the extortionate price for another XP Pro license.

I've tried several Linux live CDs (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Suse) to see how Linux would play and all had some of the usual problems...graphics, sound, and wireless (yes, it is Intel wireless). So...it's wait and see.

BTW--I do keep it updated even though I don't use it much.

[saphalline]

I still wonder about the $$ of a change from Vista to W7.I doubt it will be free, but I don't think M$ can afford to make it any more expensive than Vista upgrades. They can tweak the Home-Basic-to-Ultimate pathways all they want, but if any single price is more than the cost of a WinXP-to-Vista upgrade, you just know they're going to burned at the stake by every tech blogger on the planet! Heck, in this day and age of blogging, they may even be fried by their own employees! ;)

Vista upgrades are complicated, but Windows 7 should be about the same price. After all, everyone keeps saying that the W7 beta is the way Vista was supposed to be!

Supposedly vista drivers are going to work in 7.So far so good here. Orion and I put several systems under the knife, including two laptops three times (32-bit vs 64-bit reinstalls :D). Actually, the laptops were even easier than the desktops! Everything was identified and installed, right off the bat!

By the way, all of you do know that Windows 7 will get all its drivers from M$ updates, right? All WHQL-signed drivers will be pushed out through M$ updates. (Don't even get me started on the "IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!" rant. :rolleyes:)

... ME/XP ... 2K/XP ...Functionally speaking, I'd say it's more like ME/98SE. W7 removes a lot of the fat and gunk that made Vista so completely horrifying to use and administer. But it still keeps the core experience close to home, including the ability to play games. In short, the stuff that has been taken out is welcome to go! Now I'm not saying W7 is like the good ol' times with XP, but it's a heck of a lot easier to change things! And that's even taking into account the increased number of options. So W7 is a vast improvement over Vista.

For instance, the first time I tried to change my IP addy in Vista, it took me 10 minutes!! :mad: I was so mad by that time I was in danger of breaking my keyboard and mouse! Pissed me off that it took so long! The same thing in W7? Less than a minute. Granted that was with the experience of using Vista for 2 years, but the number of mouse clicks has dropped by two thirds! Vast improvement!!

It's the little things like that, you know? W7 seems much more willing to bend to the user than Vista ever likely will. A bit more of that old M$ thinking in there - let the user change things even if it's bad. Heck, I don't know a good OS that doesn't have a healthy dose of that attitude! Linux is certainly all about that! :p But seriously, I really like W7 so far. Haven't used Vista since I got W7! Haha! I may just stay here until August; who knows?

I have friends who are geeks like me and they said Vista was fine.Ummm... :confused:

Did they talk in a flat monotone voice? Did they have wireless antennas sticking out the back of their necks? Were they wearing winter jackets indoors that may have been concealing explosives??

I'm trying to imagine under what duress I could possibly be persuaded to say "Vista is fine" when my audience included long-time WinXP users!! WTF!?

[pop pop]

Did they talk in a flat monotone voice? Did they have wireless antennas sticking out the back of their necks? Were they wearing winter jackets indoors that may have been concealing explosives??


How did you know!? :p

[classicsoftware]

Listen Pop-Pop:

I think you must still be a little cranky from the jet lag. I am not ever considered an early adopter. My main PC runs Windows 2000 and I have it's replacement ready to go with Windows XP.

That being said. I got a new laptop last summer for my daughter to take away to college. It came with Vista and an XP downgrade. I wiped off the Vista (against daughters wishes) and installed XP. The system ran great until Windows collapsed during a hardware problem. After the warranty people sent it back, I relented and installed Vista. It runs great, actually better than XP on this system. It has some nice eye candy. There was nothing I had a problem with. Avast installed fine. As did MS-Office, Open Office (I have it sent to French since she is a French major, WordPerfect X3, Firefox, I-Tunes and everything else we through at it. It was a breeze to set it up at her university. It was no problem to get on my home network, the wireless was better than XP, it was a breeze to set up the Network IP printer. Generally it was a hassle free experience.....

[pop pop]

With all due respect, exalted one...

I am not alone in being cranky about Vista...jet lag not withstanding.

And yeah, 27 hours travel time can wear you down for a long time. :p

[classicsoftware]

I think a lot of the Vista stuff is pre SP1. I really resisted and I don't claim it to be trouble free, but it's just not as bad as many people claim. I only used it because my daughter insisted and it has been a very enjoyable experience.

You can turn off UAC (http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows-vista/disable-user-account-control-uac-the-easy-way-on-windows-vista/).

If your programs don't play nice with Vista at this point, it's not Vista it's your programs. Vista has been out long enough that the software companies should be able to integrate with the OS by now.

[Ajmukon]

With all due respect, exalted one...

I am not alone in being cranky about Vista...jet lag not withstanding.

And yeah, 27 hours travel time can wear you down for a long time. :p

27 hours long?? really? ouch thats rough.

[pop pop]

Classic.

Good link, thanks.

You still can't polish a turd.

[jlreich]

You still can't polish a turd.
Hmm, actually there was a link around not too long ago that proved you could in fact polish a turd. :p :D

Maybe it was Mythbusters, I don't remember for sure. :D

[classicsoftware]

Classic.

Good link, thanks.

You still can't polish a turd.

We will agree to disagree.......

It's safer than XP, it's prettier than XP and it's what we got......

[saphalline]

Maybe it was Mythbusters, I don't remember for sure.I believe it was! I didn't see that episode, but I remember thinking how amusing it would have been to see it. ;)

and it's what we got......True, but you must admit that there are a great number of older PC's out there that are still running strong.

One of things about Vista that I still, to this day, have problems wrapping my head around is the extreme hardware requirements. Now of course, this is relatively speaking, but how many people have you seen over the last year who are still running an old non-HT P4 system? Or a Socket A system? These older PC's are still functional, but they lack the robustness to run Vista in one way or another. CPU power, RAM capacity, platform "oldness", etc.

I would not myself be caught dead running such an old system today! At least, not as a main system. But what are the masses to think? "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", right? Except it IS broken in the sense that it can't even run the latest Windows OS! And many of those older OEM systems are so incredibly finicky that Linux just won't work! :rolleyes: A tragedy of computing, to be sure, but nevertheless I've had many of those older OEM systems in my grasp and darned if I couldn't get any one of 5 distro's to boot more than once! Stupid OEM's and their use of VIA and SiS chipsets... :mad:

So for those many many people out there who haven't a clue, or a decent PC, what are they to do?

More of a rhetorical question than anything since I really don't care what they do :p but there is still a place for WinXP.

In the mean time, I want Windows 7!! :D :cool:

[classicsoftware]

I believe it was! I didn't see that episode, but I remember thinking how amusing it would have been to see it. ;)

True, but you must admit that there are a great number of older PC's out there that are still running strong.

One of things about Vista that I still, to this day, have problems wrapping my head around is the extreme hardware requirements. Now of course, this is relatively speaking, but how many people have you seen over the last year who are still running an old non-HT P4 system? Or a Socket A system? These older PC's are still functional, but they lack the robustness to run Vista in one way or another. CPU power, RAM capacity, platform "oldness", etc.

I would not myself be caught dead running such an old system today! At least, not as a main system. But what are the masses to think? "If it ain't broke, don't fix it", right? Except it IS broken in the sense that it can't even run the latest Windows OS! And many of those older OEM systems are so incredibly finicky that Linux just won't work! :rolleyes: A tragedy of computing, to be sure, but nevertheless I've had many of those older OEM systems in my grasp and darned if I couldn't get any one of 5 distro's to boot more than once! Stupid OEM's and their use of VIA and SiS chipsets... :mad:

So for those many many people out there who haven't a clue, or a decent PC, what are they to do?

More of a rhetorical question than anything since I really don't care what they do :p but there is still a place for WinXP.

In the mean time, I want Windows 7!! :D :cool:

All true, but as you are aware, Windows had to do a re-write. I also do not recommend upgrading an XP pc to Vista. But the thing I'm trying to point out is that after you drive it for a while, you realize it's pretty nice.....

[mjc]

But the thing I'm trying to point out is that after you drive it for a while, you realize it's pretty nice.....

It's just not your father's Oldsmobile...

[classicsoftware]

It's just not your father's Oldsmobile...

But as much as I would like a 55 Olds to drive on Weekends, I want the shiny new speedster for every day use.....

[Fruss Tray Ted]

Speaking of 'shiny'

Read the second result here (http://mythbustersresults.com/). :D