Reinstalling windows and my sanity

[kccboy2004]

Hi, please help me here, I gotta get back to windows. I installed Ubuntu 9.04 on my dell d600. I hate it. The drivers did not install. Wireless does not work and browsing is awful. I just want out !

But I can't get it off my pc. The Ubuntu install trashed all the drivers, so the CD drive does not want to work, and there is no option to boot from USB anymore.

How do I get back ? Please help...desparate...

[Whyzman]

Did you install Ubuntu onto a separate partition?

[kccboy2004]

Sadly, no. I did not. I know I did wrong now.

[kccboy2004]

so the problem now, is that if I try to re-install windows from the Installation CD, the system does not even know that there is a CD in there, or at least does not act upon it...

[Sylvander]

1. "The Ubuntu install trashed all the drivers, so the CD drive does not want to work"
I understand you to be saying that you cannot get the optical drive [DVD, CD, RW, or R?] to work within the Ubuntu environment.
Can the PC boot a bootable optical disk at startup?
Is there a FDD?
Is the BIOS's boot menu order set to FDD, optical disk, HDD?
I'm assuming you only have Ubuntu on this PC.

2. "But I can't get it off my pc"
If I were in your place, I would:
(a) Make a FREE bootable "live" optical disk [DVD or CD] of some Puppy Linux puplet.

(b) Boot that and use the included GParted to repartition the internal HDD, and reformat those new partitions.

(c) I have Win200Pro, Ubuntu, and various puplets of Puppy Linux in various places.
Never use Ubuntu, BoxPup is favourite, Windows next.
It isn't necessary to install Puppy, but you can if you like. It can be used lots of different ways.

e.g.
(d) Boot the live optical disk and don't install or save any configurations or additional packages to the "pup_save" file on any handy partition on any storage media [HDD, Flash Drive, etc]

(e) Install to a Flash Drive.
If your BIOS can boot USB you have no problem...
If it Cannot, then you easily make a "WakePup2" bootable floppy and boot that to automatically load the Puppy off the Flash Drive.

Oops, typed this only having seen post #1.

p.s.
Another PC-Guide regular, who judges Linux distros by whether they can easily set up wireless connections, and finds all of them wanting...
Tried Puppy linux and had his wireless working in a minute or two.
He was impressed.
The only time when Linux wireless connection setup had impressed him. :D :cool:

[Paul Komski]

and there is no option to boot from USB anymoreAre you trying to boot from a USB CDROM or what?

The system does not even know that there is a CD in there, or at least does not act upon itWhich version of Windows does the CDROM relate to? Most Dells will give you a boot menu with F12 during startup regardless of the boot priority in the BIOS setup. If the drive doesnt show up in the list then there is probably a hardware or connection problem with the drive but absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you installed Ubuntu.

If the drive is visible but you cant boot from the CD disk then the disk is either faulty (or non-bootable) or the drive is faulty, dirty or has a mal-aligned laser, etc.

[kccboy2004]

1. "The Ubuntu install trashed all the drivers, so the CD drive does not want to work"
I understand you to be saying that you cannot get the optical drive [DVD, CD, RW, or R?] to work within the Ubuntu environment.
Can the PC boot a bootable optical disk at startup?
No 0 it won't boot from the CD at startup..
Is there a FDD?
No, I have no FDD

Is the BIOS's boot menu order set to FDD, optical disk, HDD?
Yes, It is set to CD, then HDD

I'm assuming you only have Ubuntu on this PC.
Yes I only have Ubuntu on this PC

2. "But I can't get it off my pc"
If I were in your place, I would:
(a) Make a FREE bootable "live" optical disk [DVD or CD] of some Puppy Linux puplet.OK.. I will try.
(b) Boot that and use the included GParted to repartition the internal HDD, and reformat those new partitions.

(c) I have Win200Pro, Ubuntu, and various puplets of Puppy Linux in various places.
Never use Ubuntu, BoxPup is favourite, Windows next.
It isn't necessary to install Puppy, but you can if you like. It can be used lots of different ways.

e.g.
(d) Boot the live optical disk and don't install or save any configurations or additional packages to the "pup_save" file on any handy partition on any storage media [HDD, Flash Drive, etc]

(e) Install to a Flash Drive.
If your BIOS can boot USB you have no problem...
If it Cannot, then you easily make a "WakePup2" bootable floppy and boot that to automatically load the Puppy off the Flash Drive.

Oops, typed this only having seen post #1.

p.s.
Another PC-Guide regular, who judges Linux distros by whether they can easily set up wireless connections, and finds all of them wanting...
Tried Puppy linux and had his wireless working in a minute or two.
He was impressed.
The only time when Linux wireless connection setup had impressed him. :D :cool:

I will give this a go...I have to get out of the house for a while, but will get back to you in 6 hours or so... thanks

[kccboy2004]

Are you trying to boot from a USB CDROM or what?

Which version of Windows does the CDROM relate to? Most Dells will give you a boot menu with F12 during startup regardless of the boot priority in the BIOS setup. If the drive doesnt show up in the list then there is probably a hardware or connection problem with the drive but absolutely nothing to do with the fact that you installed Ubuntu.
I am booting from XP Professional 1a. The drive does show up in the list, but does not get read, Ithink because Ubuntu trashed my drivers. (I had installed Ubuntu from a USB drive, but after having installed from that drive, Ubuntu seems to have trashed thatability, the USB boot option is no longer presented.

If the drive is visible but you cant boot from the CD disk then the disk is either faulty (or non-bootable) or the drive is faulty, dirty or has a mal-aligned laser, etc.

Everything is slow in Ubuntu, no wireless, no CD, "clicking on the 'page down' scroll bar takes me to the bottom of the page...grrrr... disappointed"

[Paul Komski]

Ubuntu should work well on your laptop and others have found ways to enable Wifi on it as "a breeze (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2799317&postcount=3)" with a bit of help under Feisty. I have had no problems installing Wifi on Ubuntu 7 and 8 but had to turn off the roaming mode (System > Administration > Network > WiFi Card > Properties) before I could get both Tenda and Netgear cards to work.

The "drivers" that you refer to are only relevant to a loaded OS and not to the BIOS, which should natively see and access a CDROM of that vintage without problems. As already stated the BIOS boot options should be independent of what has happened under a Windows or Linux startup.

The slowness of Ubuntu and other features that you dont like plus the problems of not now being able to install Windows smacks to me of faulty hardware. Do check that your installation CD is good by trying to see if you can boot to it on another PC. Presumably you cannot boot to the Ubuntu installation CD either and if that is the case it would tend to confirm a basic hardware problem.

I would also suggest that you attempt to boot to a Live Linux CD with the HDD completely removed from the laptop and see if anything different happens.

[kccboy2004]

Paul,

The PC was working fine under XP immediately prior to installing.
I used the same CD to install XP a yesterday (on another machine).
When I try to play a music CD in Ubuntu, it does not work.
Googling this problem with Dell D600 drivers, 'seems' to bring up others with the same problem.

Beam me up Scotty !! :)

[Paul Komski]

I can't replicate your Google search results but perhaps you have a specific link. If "by the same problem" you mean their Dell got "screwed" by installing Linux then that would be most interesting. I think it is co-incidence this happened when it did and I still think faulty hardware is most likely at the root of things - in fact, particularly since the same CD is OK in other systems.

[nuz]

Let's just start from the basics here.
1. You have a BOOTABLE XP CD.
2. Your bootup sequence is CDROM, HDD.
3. You've put your BOOTABLE XP CD in the CD drive and restarted the PC.

If the answer to all 3 above is yes, and you still don't get something like, "Press ANY key to boot from CD..." ,then it's definitely a hardware problem. Drivers are loaded by the operating system when it starts. The OS starts from the hard disk, so if it ignores the CD on the way there, it's not a driver issue.

[kccboy2004]

Paul, thanks again for trying to help me. much appreciated.try googling "ubuntu dell d600 wireless" - I get a whole load.

I have loaded Puppy Linux through a USB device. The wireless still did not work off the bat. But then I loaded, relatively easily, the dell wireless drivers with Ndiswrapper This worked !!

I know that this is not the Linux forum, but just a quick word here, before I get to my main point again; I find Puppy really snappy, internet browsing is fast. I like it. BUUUTTT... if find myself needing to load Java.... to my utter dismay, in the link below are the instructions. They must be having a laugh...

http://www.puppylinux.org/wiki/how-tos/general/guesttoojavainstaller

:)

Back to my main point now.... I do have the option to install Windows from a USB device. Can you please point me to a thread, or give me some instruction on how to do this. (can you please bear in mind that the HP USB utility will not work on my W7 machine that I would otherwise have used to create a bootable USB drive for booting).

Again thanks for your help.

[kccboy2004]

OK... I think that I now have a clue as to what is causing the problem... it is GRUB... this seems to be what is blocking the CD drive from being recognised.... at lease I think so...any ideas ?

I am sure that the following should be in Linux forum now... is it ok to continue here for now ??

I have formated the main drive... hoping to clear Ubuntu off there completely.
I repartitioned and installed Puppy on the hard drive.

Apparently, according to the instructions (http://www.puppylinux.org/manuals/puppy-40/english/how-install-puppy/frugal-installation), I have to make an entry to Grub... clearly Grub was installed by Ubuntu.... how do I find it ? I tried to reboot to see if it would load up puppy as it was, but it just gave me an error (17) at the Grub loading stage - and STOPPED (permanently).

I then rebooted again with my USB drive in place..that was fine.. but

How do I find Grub to make the changes so that the system will boot to my hard drive installed puppy ?

Note I have no Windows installtion on this.


Thanks again for any help.

[Paul Komski]

GRUB (or LILO) need to be installed somewhere in order to boot to a normal Hard Drive Linux installation. GRUB is loaded in stages and the first couple of stages are commonly accessed from the MBR of a Hard Drive, a Partition Boot Sector or a Floppy Diskette. The later stages are then reached within the Linux kernel. LILO is seldom used nowadays. GRUB can also be configured to load more than one Operating System and this can include chainloading Windows installations. In both Puppy and Ubuntu the main configuration of the boot options is editable in a menu.lst file.

If (as part and parcel of a Linux installation) GRUB is installed onto the hard drive it can be reached directly from its installation onto the MBR or indirectly from an installation to a PBS either on the active primary partition reached via a normal MBR or onto any partiton reached using a 3rd Party Boot Manager.

If the CDROM is in front of the Hard Drive in the BIOS boot order GRUB (on the hard drive) will only come into play if no bootable medium is detected in the CD drive. In that situation GRUB can not interfere at all with the ability to boot to the CD drive (since the CDD is queried prior to the HDD) and if a believed bootable CD will not boot up there is either something wrong with the disk or the drive.

Choosing to install GRUB onto a Floppy Diskette is often a very good way to keep things under the closest control for n00bs (notably in multiboot situations) but choosing the MBR is generally the most straightforward/uncomplicated method especially if only booting one Linux distro.

How do I find Grub to make the changes so that the system will boot to my hard drive installed puppy ?What sort of Puppy install did you use, when choosing a hard drive installation. A normal installation to an ext2/3 file system or a frugal installation to any partition or some other method. With a normal installation you should have been prompted as to where you wanted to install GRUB and just choosing the hard drive (usually hda or sda) would hav utilised the MBR.

PS
If GRUB was installed to the MBR by Ubuntu it can be cleared from a DOS boot floppy using fdisk /mbr or by overwriting it with a new GRUB on the MBR from the new Linux installation. I am not familiar with booting Linux from USB pen drives but if that is how you loaded Puppy the options will depend on the sort of installation used and you may have to use the floppy again to reinstall or to edit GRUB. It depends which Linux kernel is in action as to where you would edit GRUB. I don't believe you will be able to install Windows from a flash memory drive - but if you can do post the details.

[kccboy2004]

Paul,

Thanks for your help. I have Grub loading properly. I am going to give up on my CD drive. I agree, it must be a hardware issue.

The question now is... I need good instructions on how to load Windows XP onto a bootable USB drive. Again, bearing in mind that HP's USB utility (seems to be popular) does not work on Windows 7 (which is what I have to make the bootable USB drive).


I have posted another question on the Linux forum.


Againi thanks.

[Paul Komski]

I have never managed a Windows install using USB pen drives. There are however lots of Google Hits (http://www.google.ie/search?hl=en&q=windows+installation+usb+drive&meta=&aq=1&oq=windows+installation+us) and the top one might be what you want.

Alternative methods are a hard drive installation (http://paulski.com/zpages.php?id=1711) or (if you can access the Windows CD from a DOS boot floppy) by using smartdrv and winnt.exe from the i386 folder on the CD.

[Sylvander]

1. "They must be having a laugh..."
To install Java the easy way...
Just click on this link to the PET file (http://www.puppylinux.asia/tpp/ttuuxxx/programs/internet/jre1.6.0_11.pet), and OK to install ["Open with..."] using "PetGet".
Name = puppy
Password = linux

Was got at this thread (http://www.murga-linux.com/puppy/viewtopic.php?t=36316).

[kccboy2004]

Sylvander, thanks for the post. I will check that out.

Paul, again thanks for the post. I am going on the basis that you suggested, that the CD drive is bust.

Where I am now:

1. I want to go back to Windows XP.
2. I have formatted my hard drive, removed all USB's by way of my other W7 PC.
3. I have made 3 partitions: i) Primary NTFS, ii) 'Secondary' NTFS, iii) FAT32
4. I put the drive back in the Dell D600.
5. I went to load XP back up via a USB install, I made up with the HP utility.

I have the boot sequence set to 1. USB 2. HDD

The system returns : No Bootable drive found.

So... I took the USB drive out and tried again. Imagine my surprise when I got

"GRUB Loading Stage1.5.
GRUB loading, please wait...
Error 17"

I don't understand... I formatted the drive. Is Grub living in the RAM or the BIOS ?? How do I exorcise it ?

[Paul Komski]

I stated earlier that "If GRUB was installed to the MBR by Ubuntu it can be cleared from a DOS boot floppy using fdisk /mbr".

It resides in your case on the MBR; the very first sector of the HDD. The DOS command fdisk with the /mbr switch overwrites the GRUB code and replaces it with standard boot code.

Personally I would forget about the USB drive because you are going to need to use DOS and accessing USB via DOS is a very hit and miss affair. I suggest you copy the i386 folder to a FAT drive on a second PC. Replace the drive in this PC and then boot to a DOS boot floppy and run smartdrv and then i386/winnt.exe to run the windows setup. The details are laid out in greater detail in an earlier link by me with respect to a hard drive installation.

[kccboy2004]

Paul,

I don't have a floppy.

:o

[Paul Komski]

Sorry. No floppy nor any CD.

First prepare a bootable DOS partition on the drive (http://paulski.com/zpages.php?id=1715) on another PC. Make it big enough (say 1gig) to hold both the contents of any DOS utilities and the contents of the i386 folder and any mandatory Drivers that WinXP will need to get your system functional.

Switch the drive back to the current PC and boot to that C: partition and run smartdrv and then the i386\winnt executable.

[kccboy2004]

Paul,

I know that I am being really thick... thanks again for helping me.

I tried to follow the instructions but fail on lots of levels:

1. I have plugged my drive into my W7RC1 pc and formatted my drive:

e: drive 3.08 GB FAT32
f: drive 34 GB NTFS

per instructions I download "the self-extracting boot98sc.exe (free, 892kB) "

BUT... this requires a floppy to install to...

I imagined that this would extract its DOS files to my W7 pc, then I would copy them across to the e: drive.

Can you please lead this horse to water...


Thanks.

[Paul Komski]

I imagined that this would extract its DOS files to my W7 pc, then I would copy them across to the e: drive.

1) You need to boot to DOS on the other PC - be it on a floppy or CD or hard drive.

2) You need to sys the relevant partition and receive the message "system transferred" so that that partition is bootable. This step is critical because the boot sector and main boot files must be co-ordinated.

3) You need to ensure that the relevant FAT partition is a primary partition and has been marked as active.

4) You can then copy any DOS files to that partition (for example the contents of the downloaded floppy) as well as the i386 folder and any other stuff you feel you will need later on.

Steps 1 through 3 should give you a bootable hard drive when you transfer it back to the problem PC. Step 4 allows you to adds what you want to the now, hopefully, bootable partition.

Post back if anything still unclear.

[kccboy2004]

Paul,

My problems 'seem' to be at an end.

I revisited the USB boot option. THis time I used some software called "win98boot".

I got instrcutions from "http://www.bay-wolf.com/usbmemstick.htm"

I used by Slipstreamed Winstall files from NLite.

I plugged my USB stick in, rebooted, and.... it is installing as we speak.

I will let you know if I have any more problems. But again...many many thanks. It is nice to know that you guys are out there.

[kccboy2004]

Paul,

One further thing...

You wrote "If GRUB was installed to the MBR by Ubuntu it can be cleared from a DOS boot floppy using fdisk /mbr"

GRUB is still installed.

Now I have windows installed... why can't I go to a command prompt and type "flsk /mbr" ?

The command is not recognized...

Thanks.

[Paul Komski]

A command prompt in windows XP and one in the DOS boot floppy (as specified) are not the same thing at all.

You should boot to some utility on a floppy or CD and replace the GRUB code with standard MBR bootstrap code.

From DOS it is fdisk /mbr
From an NT Recovery Console it is fixmbr
From BiNG it is to set Standard MBR

There are other MBR tools that can also help out and also be used to make MBR backups - a good idea before you dual boot anything.

MBR Too (http://www.diydatarecovery.nl/mbrtool.htm)l and a couple of TBU Utilities (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/downloads-free-software.htm).