large videocard in mid ATX case

[okeee]

These videocards such as GeForce 9800 GTX+, ENGTX260 and Radeon HD 4890 are quite large. Would they fit in a sonata II case, which has
-3 hard disks: 1 SATA hard disk, 2 IDE hard disks
-2 dvd-drive
-1 floppy drive
http://www.newegg.com/product/product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129155

[123456]

All 3 should fit in with no problems. My GTS250 fits in fine with extra space in my mATX case, (smaller than ATX).

[okeee]

What does a good case need to have, what do you consider good cases and what bad cases. I'm not sure about the case size, but it should fit 1 large graphical card with the size of en9800gtx+ or engtx260.

[123456]

Sonata II seems great. If I fit in my card in my smaller Rosewill case, you can definately fit a 9800GTX in that thing.

[okeee]

About the case, does it come with many components to install (such as fans) and how difficult is it to install all of these components?

These are the case I'm I'm interested because they have 2 fans, so good airflow it seems and they're quite cheap:
COOLER MASTER Centurion 5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119068
or
COOLER MASTER Centurion 590
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119152&Tpk=cooler%20master%20centurion%20590

[jlreich]

As I mentioned in your other thread I have that case and a large video card, the video card will fit. It is tight, but it fits. And it will be just as tight in just about any mid-tower case. If you want plenty of room you need to go for a full-tower. ;)

I think the Sonata II is a better case then either of those, but cases are a personal choice, so you need to decide what you are looking for.

Honestly, for as much hardware as you are going to put in from the get go you may want to go ahead and spring for a decent full-tower.

[okeee]

No, I meant the components for the case only, such as the 2 case fans.. I don't know what other components it has and if they're difficult to install.

But why do you consider Sonata II to be better, I was looking for a case with 2 fans for good airflow.

[jlreich]

Case fans are easy to install in any case.

The big black side port thing in the Sonata II, I would remove it. It's easy to do.

The thing I like best about the Sonata II is the sideways hard drive bays. It is also constructed very well and there is nothing that will cut you when you are working inside of it. Believe me, build inside a cheap case and almost cut your hand off and you will never do it again. ;) I still have a nice scare from the last cheap case I got for a very tight budget for my cousin. That will never happen again. ;)

There is nothing particularly wrong with either of the other cases. Cooler Master makes some pretty good cases. I love my Cooler Master HAF 932. Like I said cases are a personal choice.

[okeee]

For the Sonata II, there is only 1 rear fan, and for heavy games, probably more cooling is needed, so I looked for a case with 2 fans. Would this be sufficient? It has to fit videocard: engtx260.
Antec Three Hundred http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129042

[jlreich]

The 300 would probably just fine. You may or may not need to watch where you install your hard drives to allow clearance for the video card, but you have six bays so it shouldn't be an issue.

[okeee]

About Antec 300, there is a rear fan and a top fan, is this sufficient for good airflow (heavy gaming) or are more fans needed?

[jlreich]

No. It has two spots in the front for 120mm fans. I would fill them both.

[okeee]

For the fans,
-silent
-good quality
-cheap
Could you recommend some brands? I do not need any colored led fans. Also, what brands to avoid?

[okeee]

I am interested in engtx260. These were sold:

-Asus GeForce GTX 260 896MB PhysX CUDA
-EVGA GeForce GTX 260 896MB PhysX CUDA

What is the difference between these brands?
-I would like to use the hardware as long as possible
-I prefer a silent card
-a (slight) difference in video performance quality doesn't matter to me

Which should I choose?

[jlreich]

Personally, I like eVga for nVidia cards. They make solid products and have a well known reputation for great service. They also have a lifetime warranty that includes overclocking after you register. Pretty much covers everything except physical damage.

[okeee]

I'm interested in ATI as well, and compared to EN GTX 260 896MB, which has about the same performance:
Radeon HD 4870 - 512 MB GDDR5
Radeon HD 4870 - 1 GB GDDR5
Radeon HD 4870 - 2 GB GDDR5

[jlreich]

The 1GB version is the sweet spot and has similar performance to a GTX260 core 216. Instead of going with a 2GB version I would just spend the extra cash on a 4890 1GB.

[okeee]

-I've read that both engtx 260 and ati 4870 may get very hot. Would it be sufficient to place 1 extta fan at the front side of the case?
ATI 4890 is probably too expensive, and I would need a more powerful PSU as well.

-I've checked the PSU cables to connect to all the hardware, and there are lots 4 pin (horizontal) black and white cables. Does it matter which hardware connect with what cable (color as well) or will any that fits be ok?

-When all hardware is connected, there are so many wires that keep touching some of the hardware. Is there any hardware that NEVER should be touched by the wires?

-About static electricity, I've read that it's sufficient to touch the metal case to prevent static electricity. Does it matter where the case itself is placed, for example on a wooden table?

[jlreich]

You will be able to control the fan speed of an ATI video card using the CCC. For nVidia there is "Riva Tuner", which usually can also control ATI cards. eVga has a a program called "Precision" that will control the fan on their cards as well and works very good.

4 pin (horizontal) black and white cables
Black and white?? Should be black, red, and yellow. Black is ground, red is +5v, and yellow is +12v. SATA power connectors also have orange that is +3.3v. Either way each component has a particular connector type and you cannot plug in the wrong connector. The only exception to this is the 8pin aux CPU connector and the 8pin PCIe X16 connector. But they should both be marked accordingly.

Cable management is something best tackled during the initial install. ;) Take the time to get it right and it will save you a headache later and make for better cooling in the case. Generally speaking it isn't going to hurt anything to have a cable touching something. As long as it is not in a fan or on something that will get rather hot like like the CPU HSF. Though I don't think under any normal circumstances that the HSF will get anywhere near hot enough to melt the insulation on the wires.

Set the case on a non-conductive surface like a wood table or bench. Many will also set the board on the box it came in since it is non-conducting and also provides some cushion as you are installing components. Grounding yourself on a unpainted metal surface of the case is good enough. I usually do it every time before I am getting ready to touch a component. Usually if it is a one hand task I will hold onto the case with the other hand to ensure continued grounding. Or for two handed tasks I will often try to have my arm touching the case in some way. It is warm out so static is not near as bad of a problem as in the winter time when it is cold and dry (fertile environment for static). If you are still nervous about static then get yourself an anti-static wristband.

[okeee]

The 2 fans from this case:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?ISList=11-129-042-S01%2c11-129-042-S02%2c11-129-042-S03%2c11-129-042-S04%2c11-129-042-S05%2c11-129-042-S06%2c11-129-042-S07%2c11-129-042-S08%2c11-129-042-S09%2c11-129-042-S10%2c11-129-042-S11%2c11-129-042-S12&S7ImageFlag=1&Item=N82E16811129042&Depa=0&WaterMark=1&Description=Antec%20Three%20Hundred%20Black%20Comp uter%20Case%20-%20Retail

are they both outtake fans? So that I have to put in at least 1 other intake fan?

[jlreich]

The two front fans should be intake, the rear and top fans are exhaust.

This will provide good airflow. ;) Shouldn't have a need for anything else.

If you wanted to add another intake fan on the side that wouldn't hurt, but I wouldn't worry about too much unless you find the system isn't as cool as you like, then add it at that point.

When you want the best of both cooling and quiet you are walking a fine line. You have to figure out for yourself exactly where that line is going to be for you. ;) Also how much you are willing to pay for it. Quiet and cool can get expensive depending on how far you want to go. ;)

[okeee]

should be intake, the rear and top fans are exhaust.

Are those 2 special type of fans, what are the differences or is any fan (120mm) ok?

[jlreich]

It's a matter of the direction you install them in. There are usually arrows on the fan to tell you which way the air is flowing. The rear and top fans will already be installed as exhaust.

[okeee]

I'm interested in this case: Antec Three Hundred but I would like to know a certain length inside the case, which is the length between the rear panel and the front panel, the length where the videocard should be placed. Does anyone have such a case and please measure it? Length in cm would be ok.

[jlreich]

If you look through the reviews of the case you will find there are many that list modern video cards in their specs with this case. All those modern cards such as a 4850 or a 9800GTX are the exact same length as all other modern mid-range or better cards. A length of 10.5" is the standard PCB size these days. To my knowledge there is not a card that is longer than that. There are smaller ones, but they are the cheap low end cards.

[okeee]

I wanted to compare that length with the length in another case, the Sonata II, if it is larger, how much more larger it is. What is "PCB size "?

[jlreich]

What is "PCB size "?
Printed Circuit Board. The actual board that everything is attached to.

[okeee]

I have been using another case for a while, and now and then there was this loud rattling noise. I'm not sure where the noise came from, but when I put something heavy on top of the case, the rattling noise would be much less. So where does it come from and how do I stop it properly?

[okeee]

Yes I was interested in Antec300 but then I read that it had NO pc speaker, and that it was loud. I still need the pc speaker for dos games and for booting.

Other cases that you could recommend?
I'm looking for a silent pc case, which ones could you recommend? I'm not looking for expensive cases, just a decent silent case.

-silent, used for heavy gaming
-large enough to fit in videocards such as engtx260
-NO flashy lights, windows or other extras
-no PSU
-at least 1x 120 mm fan at rear panel, and optional fan at front panel
-pc-speaker included

[jlreich]

Most motherboards will have an on-board speaker for POST beeps and such.

I'm looking for a silent pc case, which ones could you recommend?
Really, with wanting quiet, cooling, and having four hard drives I think you need to go ahead and move up to a full tower case. ;)

One such as the one I have, the Cooler Master HAF 932, has plenty of space, huge 230mm fans that move a lot of air for great cooling yet are very quiet, and good cable management. You're just not going to get all that with a mid-tower case. ;)

With four hard drives you are going to be rather cramped in a mid-tower. This is the exact reason I upgraded from my Sonata II. It was a great case, but with four hard drives and a modern video card cooling began to be a problem even with both 120mm fans set on the highest setting. With all the cables for the drives it was a mess in there. My system is 7-10C cooler now since I got the HAF 932. And very quiet with the three 230mm and one 140mm fans. Lots of air moving but low RPMs makes for a quite and cool system.

With all the stuff you are going to put in there do yourself a favour and spring for a full-tower case. You will be glad you did. ;) They are also a pleasure to work in.

[okeee]

Cooler Master HAF 932 is nice, but is quite expensive, almost 100 euro more. About 50 euro more I could affort.

About that pc speaker, some motherboards have a build in speaker, this is for both post beep and old games? Does asus p5q-e have this speaker?

[okeee]

I've checked some cases, how about this case?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112154
It has 3 fans it seems, good enough for gaming?
I'm not sure if additional fans can be installed.
videocard: engtx 260

[jlreich]

HAF was just an example. There are other good full-tower cases you could probably find that would be somewhat cheaper. You would have to scrounge for deals. I had been eying the HAF 932 for months until one day it was in a Newegg newsletter deal for a really good price and free shipping. Snagged it up for $125. :cool:

LIAN LI makes great cases and yes that would be a good choice for a mid-tower.

[okeee]

Antec300 has PSU on the bottom, which means the cables have to go over the videocard, some cables may not reach the motherboard and also the case cables seem to be somewhat short, that's what I'm worried about.

I'm not sure if additional fans can be installed. If I want to put an extra fan in, does it mean i have to make holes in the panel? Or what is the best way to put in some additional fans and what position (top, sidepanel, rear)?

Is there any way to find out (before ordering the items) if all cables from case to motherboard, and PSU and such, are long enough? I've read that some cases had really short audio cables for example.

[jlreich]

You are not gong to have any cable length issues in a mid-tower case. Most likely not even in a full-tower. If you did you can get extensions for a couple bucks.

If I want to put an extra fan in, does it mean i have to make holes in the panel?
Yes, it is a mid-tower. But I really don't think you will need it. If you are really worried about it wait to save a little more cash and get a good full-tower case and you won't have these issues.

While I certainly appreciate your diligence in researching everything, I think you are really starting to over think things. Take a deep breath and step away for a minute. ;)

You have made some good choices. The case is personal as long as it is good quality and will provide decent cooling. Most of the cases you have picked out are decent to good. Personally I think the Lian Li is the best choice so far for a mid-tower, but you need to decide.

[okeee]

Yes, previously I had hardware that was too hot, too loud, so I'd rather have the right parts.

2x 120mm front fans and 1x 120mm rear fans, all 1000rpm, is this enough for a gaming pc?

About Antec300, there is place to put additional fans. What is the length in mm for the depth for the fans, to be able to fit in there?

[jlreich]

2x 120mm front fans and 1x 120mm rear fans, all 1000rpm, is this enough for a gaming pc?
Yes.

What is the length in mm for the depth for the fans, to be able to fit in there?
25mm

[okeee]

-I checked the sata hard disk, and it was connected with a 4pin molex connector to the PSU. Shouldnt it be connected with the sata cable instead?

-Is it possible to check if the CPU fan works before turning the pc on? Because CPU needs to be cooled immediately.

[jlreich]

-I checked the sata hard disk, and it was connected with a 4pin molex connector to the PSU. Shouldnt it be connected with the sata cable instead?
What hard disk? One you already have or one you are looking at? There were/are some drives that have both types of power connectors on the drive.

Is it possible to check if the CPU fan works before turning the pc on? Because CPU needs to be cooled immediately.
There you go over thinking things again. ;) Modern chips and motherboards have thermal controls and safeguards for this kind of thing. If the fan doesn't work the mobo will start beeping like crazy, and if it gets too hot the system will shut down to prevent damage.

You had better start taking it easy or this build is going to give you an ulcer. ;)

[okeee]

Yes, I already have the hard drive, and I checked how it's connected. There is also a sata cable connection, so which should connect to the PSU?

[jlreich]

Use the SATA power connector.

[okeee]

I checked for the videocard engtx 260, and I saw these versions:
what is the difference between these versions?

-ASUS ENGTX260 MATRIX/HTDI/896MD3
-ASUS ENGTX260 TOP/HTDI/896MD3
-ASUS ENGTX260/HTDP GF GTX 260 - PCI Express 2.0 x16 - 896 MB DDR3

[jlreich]

There are three major differences for different versions and manufacturers.

Ram size
Clock speeds - including factory over-clocked cards
Cooling

Other things to consider are warranties and free software.

If you want to post links I will take a look at the listed cards and see what the differences are.

[okeee]

These are asus gtx260: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=asus+gtx+260

[jlreich]

Classic examples. :)

-The most expensive one has the fancy cooling.

-The middle range one has standard cooling but a beefed up clock speed.

-The lowest priced one is standard cooling and clocks.

My guess is even though Newegg may not have one there is a even more expensive one that has the fancy cooling and higher clock speeds.

Personally, I would probably go with the one that has the higher clock speeds. But that's me and what I do. You need to decide if the fancy cooling, higher clocks, or just the standard card at the lowest price is more important to you. ;)

[okeee]

Is there a significant noticable difference in the more expensive cards? and fancy cooling, does that mean, a better cooling or a better looking cooling?

[jlreich]

Clock speeds are the most significant for most people. The faster the clock the more performance you get out of the card.

The fancy cooling setups vary in their cooling ability but I think overall they generally do better than stock cooling. In this particular case this cooling setup looks like it will do a nice job cooling while remaining fairly silent. And going by the few reviews I have read it seems to be the case. Also it looks really cool. :p

If you want me to make a recommendation, based on everything you have said about what you want I would recommend the one with the extra cooling (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121321). I like the fact that there are two fans in order to more directly cool the rest of the card. That should help keep the memory modules cooler. The overheating issues I have had with video cards usually had to do with the memory overheating because it is often overlooked in the overall cooling needs. Unfortunately it is also the most expensive one you picked out, so you and your budget will have to decide if it is important enough for you to get it.

[George Hallam]

What i have always liked to do is, go with the cheapest make/model in the range.. Turn the fan speed down on the GPU (so long as you have good airflow in the case) when the PC is idle then when a game comes on ramp it up to 60 - 70% it make a louder sound but in all honesty if you can hear your fans when your playing a game you really need to turn up the volume ;)

Most card come with a 1 - 3 year warranty as standard, so no worries there. There are so many simple, basic, user friendly Overclocking utilities now its hard to find a reason not to overclock from stock to a faster speed such as...

Core Clock 576MHz
Memory Clock 2000MHz
Is stock for a GTX 260 55nm (i think)
Core Clock 675MHz
Memory Clock 2304 MHz
Is for a eVga SSC Edition and the cooler is the same...

So no harm in moving the slider from 576Mhz to 675Mhz will cause no problems :) (Ok i wouldn't advise going straight to 675Mhz go up in 25Mhz increments ;))

If you dont have a window and lighting no need for a fancy looking card :D

And fans.. Noctua (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=2010110573%2050012454&name=Noctua) are the quietest fans you can get... But any old 120mm fan that can be plugged in to the MOBO and regulated should be ok, slow speeds for idle, fast when gaming :D

[jlreich]

Good to see you George. :) Haven't seen you around much for a while.

I would generally agree with pretty much everything you say but, okeee does not want to OC, and very low noise is a very high priority. ;)

By the way, nice fans. The dBA rating is excellent.

[okeee]

I was interested in the evga version as well:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=evga+260

How about these vesions, does the cheapest have a bit weaker cooling as well? Indeed, I don't want to overclock any hardware.

I'm interested in asus and evga, and the cheapest versions of these. Or the more expensive versions if, it has a significantly better cooling.

[jlreich]

I have given you everything you need to know. I have made my recommendations and given you my thoughts. I know it is difficult to decide between so many choices these days. I will sometimes mull over what I want for several weeks when I am building my own system until I find that right combination of price and performance for my budget.

But ultimately you need to decide which one is best for you. ;)

[okeee]

Ok after lot of checking, I selected these parts for a gaming pc:

- Motherboard: Asus P5Q-E
- Processor: Intel E8400 boxed
- RAM: Corsair XMS2 - memory- 4 GB ( 2 x 2 GB ) - DIMM 240-pins - DDR2 - 1066 MHz / PC2-8500 - CL5 - 2.1 V
- Power Supply: Corsair 650TX
- Videocard: EVGA 896-P3-1260-AR GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit GDDR3
- Case: LIAN LI Lancool PC-K7B Black Aluminum

other parts:
- 1x WD sata II hard disk
- 2x ide hard disk
- 1x ide dvd recorder
- 1x floppy drive
- win xp

The important thing is that I want to use all hardware as long as possible, so that's why I chose this case, with 3x 120 mm fans and this hardware, and I wont overclock any hardware. Also it's important that the hardware is as quiet as possible. If you see anything that wouldn't fit, incompatible or needs more cooling or something , please let me know.

[jlreich]

The only problem I see is you have 3x IDE devices (parts you already have) and the board only supports 2 IDE devices. This is the case with all modern boards. The easiest and cheapest way to deal with this is to replace the DVD burner with a SATA drive (~$25).

Other than that minor detail everything looks great. :)

Without going back and digging through the posts as I recall you already have the OS covered?

[okeee]

I'll use win xp. About the IDE devices, I know about, I'll check which ones I'll install. But if I really need all 3 of them, are there any extension cables or additional devices I can use to connect all 3 IDE devices?

[jlreich]

You can use an adapter like this (http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=941&sku=10153), but as you can see it would be cheaper to just get a new DVD burner.

Or if you happen to have an IDE to USB adapter sitting around or have a friend that would let you barrow one for awhile until you get a new drive, that would work fine for the DVD drive. Not meant for long term hard drive use but would work fine for a DVD drive.

If you really wanted to use more IDE devices you can get an IDE controller card, but they are more expensive than a new DVD drive also. Well, there are some pretty cheap ones, but I wouldn't trust my data to the really cheap ones. ;)

If you are not going to be able to get a new SATA DVD drive right off, you can always leave one of your hard drives out while you get windows installed and any other programs that are on CD/DVD, then simply pull it out when you think you won't need it for awhile and put the hard drive in its place.

Like I said though, the simplest solution is to just get a new SATA DVD drive for about $25 and forget about adapters.

[George Hallam]

Good to see you George. Haven't seen you around much for a while.

Cheers mate :D, nice to see you :). I have been poking my head in now and then, not had much time on my hands lately, had exams and work, have a week off now so been doing my new build (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=70248) and been out alot.. :) but late nights give me times for forums :D

And i agree with jlreich a new DVD burner with SATA will work wonders, i don't even know if they sell IDE ones any more and at $25 whats there not to like ;)

Also with the HDD's due to them being IDE i'm guessing they are getting on a bit, if a HDD is over 5 years old i would advise making a back up of the whole drive just in-case (should always back up important stuff anyway ;)

[jlreich]

i don't even know if they sell IDE ones any more
Yeah they still sell them. More SATA out there but PATA is still around. Actually I been waiting for deal on a PATA DVD burner to replace one that is failing since that's what I use. Might as well use the two PATA ports for something and keep my SATA ports free for hard drives. ;) :)

[okeee]

When assembly of parts is done, is it better to immediately update bios as well? ASUS P5Q-E http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16813131296

Or is it better to install windows to see if everything is already working ok?
If i need to update bios, when is the best time to do it, right after assembly of parts, even before installing windows?

[jlreich]

Don't worry about doing a BIOS update unless you have reason to. Such as support for your CPU or ram, or bug fixes that effect you.

Generally speaking the rule about BIOS flashing is if it ain't broke...

My board has BIOS F3 on it, F6 has been available for some time but I haven't bothered to update because my system runs great and there are no issues mentioned in the update release notes for F6 or prior releases that effect me.

However, I am most likely going to be upgrading to a Q9550 soon and will indeed need to update to F6 before I install it because F6 is when official support for the Q9550 was added. ;)

[okeee]

Should I check with Asus for compatibility? I've send them emails before, but no answer.

About inserting the CPU into the motherboard, for AMD CPU there is a marker that indicates how it should be placed. How is this done with Intel CPU?

[jlreich]

Should I check with Asus for compatibility? I've send them emails before, but no answer.

About inserting the CPU into the motherboard, for AMD CPU there is a marker that indicates how it should be placed. How is this done with Intel CPU?
Here is the CPU support list (http://support.asus.com/cpusupport/cpusupport.aspx?SLanguage=en-us&model=P5Q-E&product=1&os=17) for the board you chose. Note the corresponding BIOS versions. I checked along time ago. Checking that the chosen CPU and motherboard are likely compatible out of the box is the first thing I do when I am building or helping someone out. ;)

You will have a similar marker for the Intel CPU. There are also notches so you can only insert it one way.

[okeee]

What would actually happen if you would turn on the computer, and the bios version is lower than needed for the CPU?

[jlreich]

Generally the system may be unstable and crash. It may also not POST at all. Or it may function just fine with no noticeably ill effects.

Actual damage to the CPU or motherboard is highly unlikely.

I doubt you will have any problems. The E8400 has been supported since BIOS 0506. The latest BIOS is 2101. So the E8400 has been supported for a long time.

[okeee]

about BIOS settings: what do I need to change (and check) to make everything compatible?
these are the hardware:

p5q-e http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131296

CORSAIR XMS2 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145247

Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115037

[jlreich]

Only thing you will likely need to do is make sure the ram timings are correct. Often times they are not correctly detected by the BIOS, so change as needed and that should be it.

[okeee]

What exactly is RAM timing?

I checked here for RAM compatibility with motherboard p5q-e:
http://www.corsair.com/configurator/product_results.aspx?id=589503
RAM I selected: Corsair XMS2 - Memory - 4 GB ( 2 x 2 GB ) - DIMM 240- pins - DDR2 - 1066 MHz / PC2-8500 - CL5 - 2.1 V
The only memory that resembles it is under "Memory Type":
DDR2-1066 (XMS2-8500C5*4GB*SLI
But I don't have SLI. And the corresponding Part Number is "TWIN2X4096-8500C5"

So DDR2-1066 (XMS2-8500C5*4GB*SLI and TWIN2X4096-8500C5 are the same? Because the shop I checked listed these as different memory.

[jlreich]

In the specifications tab at Newegg you will see this -

Timing 5-6-6-18

If you get into the BIOS and are unsure what to do I wouldn't worry about it too much. Either wait for someone that knows what they are looking at or just leave it alone. It isn't going to hurt anything, it's just about getting the timings the specs say it can handle.

[okeee]

I read that the heatsink and fan of intel were very difficult to install, so I thought I try to install it first without the CPU. Is this ok? Or will the thermal compount strip stick to the CPU socket then?

[jlreich]

No you don't want to do that. The socket will have a protective cover on it and it would get in the way. Or worse you take the cover off and end up damaging the pins in the socket and have a paperweight for a motherboard.

While I do think s775 is one of the worst HSF attachment designs it isn't all that hard to get it on. You will be OK.

[okeee]

With this motherboard: p5q-e
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131296&Tpk=p5q-e

and this RAM: CORSAIR XMS2 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Desktop Memory Model TWIN2X4096-8500C5C G - Retail http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145247

you need to adjust some settings in bios. I read that in order to make any changes in bios, you need to set "AI Overclock Tuner" to "Manual", even if you don't overclock any hardware. Is this correct?

except set:
- DRAM Frequency to 1066
- DRAM Voltage to 2.1V
- timing to 5-6-6-18

Do I need to adjust the northbridge voltage as well?

[jlreich]

I read that in order to make any changes in bios, you need to set "AI Overclock Tuner" to "Manual", even if you don't overclock any hardware. Is this correct?
That may very well be correct. You usually need to at least change the settings for the memory from auto to manual in order to be able to change the rest of the memory settings. Every BIOS is somewhat different, so I can't give you exact advice on what exactly you will need to do unless I have that particular board, which I don't.

except set:
- DRAM Frequency to 1066
- DRAM Voltage to 2.1V
- timing to 5-6-6-18

Those are correct settings for that ram.

Do I need to adjust the northbridge voltage as well?
Yesterday 09:23 PM
No. Only time you would need to mess with NB voltages is if you are over-clocking. And then it is dangerous.

[okeee]

-After all hardware is assembled, what is REALLY important to check before you turn on the pc?
For example,
check that CPU fan is connected and running.
check that no wires are touching the cpu heatsink and fan.
check the number of motherboard holders.

-Should I check all the hardware for errors and check if the system runs stable? What program could I use, preferably for free and checking all hardware (or at least the most important components).

-For all of the hardware that needs to be screwed in, how thight should this be? As thight as possible, or still easy to remove?

[jlreich]

-After all hardware is assembled, what is REALLY important to check before you turn on the pc?
For example,
check that CPU fan is connected and running.
check that no wires are touching the cpu heatsink and fan.
check the number of motherboard holders.

-Should I check all the hardware for errors and check if the system runs stable? What program could I use, preferably for free and checking all hardware (or at least the most important components).
Those are all good things to double check. I usually install all components in the case but don't usually plug in hard drives and such but first get a successful POST with the core hardware like mobo, ram, CPU, video card, monitor, and KB. Once it posts I go into the BIOS and check temps, then check to make sure CPU and memory are properly recognized and adjust memory timings if necessary. Once that is done and all is good I hook up the drives and make sure they are all seen properly in the BIOS.

For testing the hardware I often boot a Linux Live CD/DVD. This makes feel good that the hardware is generally working good. I would then run Memtest (comes on many Live CD's these days) and let it do a couple of passes, if there are no errors I feel pretty good the ram is OK. Most builds involve a new hard drive so I normally run the full diagnostics from the drives manufacturer before I put any data on it. But that doesn't apply to you since your drives are all existing drives.

Once all that is done you can proceed to installing the OS.

Once you install windows start by installing chipset drivers, then video drivers, then install AV and FW and any other security software you use. These should already be downloaded and stored on a thumb drive or whatever to be handy to install until you get online. Only then plug in your network cable and go get windows updates. After that you can go ahead and start installing other software.

Yeah, there are those that say you can slap together a system in 20-30 minutes, install OS in another 30 minutes, but to do it all right it is a lot of work and time. ;) But it is well worth taking the time to do the proper steps. It will save you many headaches in the long run. :)

[okeee]

I ordered all parts at a webshop. I asked to send hardware in unopened boxes only, just to be safe. But when I received the hardware, some of them seem to have been opened already. I haven't build or test the hardware yet, but I like to know if it is supposed to be like this.

-LG DVD-recorder. Without box, DVD-recorder was just covered in plastic bag.

-Asus P5Q-E motherboard. No seal on the box, box, could immediately be opened.I'm not sure if the guide is used, but all accesoires are sealed in the bags.

-EVGA en260gtx. The box was wrapped in plastic, and there are seals "inspection quality check". One of these seals was broken.

-Corsair XMS2 - 4 GB ( 2 x 2 GB ) DDR2 - 1066 MHz / PC2-8500 - CL5 - 2.1 V
Box could immediately be opened, no seal.

[jlreich]

With the possible exception of the video card it sounds normal. Even that I am not sure about. You said it was wrapped in plastic, yet one of the seals were broken? Are all the accessories still laying in there nice and neat?

I really don't pay too much attention to how the packages are wrapped.

Look at the video card, if has been used you will certainly be able to tell. Dust will start building quickly and you can't really get it completely out of the insides.

[okeee]

I'm mostly worried about the videocard, why would any of the seals be broken, but the box wrapped in plastic? It's possible to open the box with the wrapped plastic still covering the box, if shoved aside carefully. But all papers seem to be unused.
I'll check videocard. If it looks used, or the bag has no seal, should I immediately return it?
I'll also check the static bag of the motherboard, if it has no seal, should I return it?

[jlreich]

It sounds like someone at the place you bought the stuff from didn't look close enough at the work order and started to pull everything out to inspect it or perhaps even get started on the build and realized they made a mistake.

I wouldn't worry about it unless you really suspect something is used and not a new part. Put it all together and if it all works you are good to go.

[okeee]

Ok I started to assemble some parts. A few questions:

-The IO-shield from the motherboard (Asus p5q-e) has some foam on it. Do you have to remove this? It seems glued on the IO-shield, but it can be removed easily. The motherboard does not fit well in the case (Antec Three Hundred), probably due to the thickness of the IO-shield.

-There are 4 memory slots: dimm_a1, dimm_a2 (channel a) and dimm_b1, dimm_b2 (channel b). dimm_a1 and dimm_b1 have better overclocking performance, but I won't overclock any hardware. I have 2x2gb memory modules, in what slots could I best position them? CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400

[jlreich]

What do you mean it doesn't fit well? They never do just slide right into place. You always have to kind of push it into the i/o shield and hold it while you get a couple screws in. Make sure the pieces of the i/o shield meant to go on the sides of the ports are not bent behind them sticking out the back of the case. You can take the padding off if you like, but there shouldn't be a need to.

If you are not going to over clock then it doesn't really matter if you put the memory in the yellow or black slots, but as a matter of practice I would put them in the yellow slots (A1, B1), the ones closest to the CPU.

[okeee]

I meant, the IO-shield does fit ok in the case, but the foam on it seems to be too thick so that the motherboard does not fit well on the stand offs. I'm not sure if I should force the motherboard components against the foam. I'm not sure if it is supposed to be used, or that it is just a protection package. the guide mentions about the IO-shield, "special anti-static measurements" but it's not very clear.

There is no padded part, just the foam glued to the metal IO-shield. there were no instructions, but I inserted the IO-shield from the inside of the case.

The IO-shield seems designed as if it supposed to be used with the foam attached but then all the ports have about 5 mm foam between the IO-shield and the ports from the motherboard. If you push the motherboard components hard into the foam, there is still about 2,5 mm foam.

[jlreich]

so that the motherboard does not fit well on the stand offs.
That's normal and what I was trying to say in my last post. Push the board in there and get a screw or two on and you will be set. Some go in harder than others, but it is normal. :)

[okeee]

The IO-shield and foam seems to be designed that way, but the problem is that the motherboard is hard to fit in the case due to the foam.
I managed to install the motherboard, using some force by pushing the ports against the foam of the IO-shield. It fits ok now, but could it damage the ports due to the pressure of the foam against the ports?

About the videocard with the opened seal box, I checked the videocard and it does not seem to have been used and there was no dust on the fan. So can I conclude that the videocard is new, or what else can I check?

Also on the back (bottom) of the videocard itself is a sticker "guaranty void if removed". But won't this sticker melt due to the temperatures of the videocard?

[jlreich]

The ports should be fine. My guess is what you find "hard to fit" is probably normal to those used to building.

I think v-card is fine and new. Don't worry about it. :)

The sticker won't melt.

Try to relax a little. I now it is easier said than done on your first few builds, but try anyway. :)

[okeee]

I'll install them and see if they work. There are some 3-pin connections that are not used: PWR_FAN, CHA_FAN1, CHA_FAN2 and CHA_FAN3. I can't find any cables that could be connected to either one of them. The guide only says that they should be connected. What are they used for?
The fans from the case all have a 4 pin molex connector, so they are only connected to the PSU.

Also there is a HD audio connection and a AC 97 connection in the case. The motherboard supports either of them. 1 of them has to be connected, which should I choose, what is the difference?

[jlreich]

None of the fans have to be connected to the board. The only exception is the CPU fan, but you can even get around that if need be.

You shouldn't have to plug in or set anything, besides your speakers of course. If you mean the HD enable function in the BIOS set it to enabled.

[okeee]

About the HD audio connection and a AC 97 connection, these are cables from the frontpanel of the case apparently. 1 of them has to be connected to the motherboard. The motherboard supports either of them, I was wondering which one is better?

I try to manage the cables properly but it is quite hard. I'm worried that there is not sufficient airflow due to the cables. Most of them are over the videocard and then scattered around the motherboard. Should I try to put some cables into the hard drive cases instead, out of the center of the case, but in front of the fans? Could you give an example of handling cables properly and not properly?

Also the cables from the PSU are bend in 1 direction. Would it damage the cables if I'd bend them in the exact other direction? Sometimes the sata connection just doesn't fit in the other direction. And how much can I bend them? The motherboard connection for example seems rather stressful if I bend the cables near the connector to smaller than 90 degrees.

[jlreich]

HD is better. AC97 is legacy.

Cable management is a pain in the butt, especially in a smaller case. I usually try to tie up the extra PSU cables and stick them in an open 5 1/4" bay if the PSU is mounted on top, or in an open HDD bay if bottom mounted. Just tie them up as neatly as you can.

Don't worry too much about stressing the cables. You don't want to put a 'crick' in it, but you do have some room to work with them.

[okeee]

Ok most cables are properly hidden in the backpanel. Except for win xp, what do I need to install? only motherboard drivers, network drivers and videocard drivers?

- Motherboard: Asus P5Q-E
- Processor: Intel E8400 boxed
- RAM: Corsair XMS2 - memory- 4 GB ( 2 x 2 GB ) - DIMM 240-pins - DDR2 - 1066 MHz / PC2-8500 - CL5 - 2.1 V
- Power Supply: Corsair 650TX
- Videocard: EVGA 896-P3-1260-AR GeForce GTX 260 896MB 448-bit GDDR3
- Case: Antec Three Hundred

[jlreich]

Make sure you have all the latest drivers download and on a thumb drive or other media before hand. Same for AV and FW. Don't use the drivers on the mobo disk as they are most likely outdated.

Mobo drivers first, then video drivers. Then AV and FW, and any other anti-malware apps you use. Once AV and FW are installed hookup to the network and get them updated, then go get windows updates.

After that you can proceed to installing other application that you want to install.

[okeee]

I read that it is also very important to install the intel chipset utility. What is this, do I need it? What is "chipset" actually?

[okeee]

Another thing, about the videocard I received with the broken seal, I tried some games and most were ok. But with some of the games (from around 2002) I heard a soft but whiny noise. It is not loud, but you can hear it. It sound a bit like a saw machine that is being used, and it is a kind of irregular noise.
I'm not really sure that the noise comes from the videocard, but it's coming from that direction. It only happens when I play those games, and as soon as I stop playing those games, the noise immediately stops.

Should I return the card or is this normal? I don't have any new, heavy games to test on, but could the noise be even worse when I would play those?

[jlreich]

I would guess it is the fan. To make sure it is the video card fan use 'riva tuner' to increase the fan speed on the video card.

Just make sure of what the sound is before sending anything back. It could be the northbridge fan, PSU fan, or even CPU or case fan. Optical drive possibly. Take the side of the case off, run a game and get the sound going and see if you can locate it.

[okeee]

Where do I find the riva tuner? Also I was looking for the videocard temperature, in display options and the advances options of nvidia itself, but it is not displayed it seems?

I tried running the game that causes the noise for about 12 hours, but after 12 hours the noise is still exactly the same (not louder). The strange thing is that more newer heavy games run without any noise. I don't have any heavy games to test on, but could the noise get louder with more heavier games?


I'm not sure if it's from the fan but it probably is. Any way to find out? It is coming from the videocard area. The sidepanel was open, but it is still pretty hard to detect where it comes from. PSU fan is the closest near the videocard, but then I'm not sure why the sound immediately stops as soon as the game is stopped.

[okeee]

Ok, checked with pc wizard 2008, I noticed that for games that cause the noises, the temperature of the videocard quickly jumps to 70c (GPU temperature, GPU ambient: 60c). While for games that do not cause the noise the temperature stays around 47c (GPU temperature, GPU ambient: 41c).

[jlreich]

70c is higher than it should be. Use Riva Tuner (http://downloads.guru3d.com/RivaTuner-v2.24c-download-163.html) to bump up the fan to keep it cooler during load. Here is a guide (http://www.guru3d.com/article/rivatuner-20-fan-speed--overclock-guide/) on using it.

If the fan is making an awful sound like it is defective then return the card. If it is simply a loud fan then you should consider getting a third party GPU fan. Do note that installing a third party fan will void the warranty on most video cards.

The fan on my card is fairly quite, but when I bump up the speeds past 50% it starts getting pretty loud and at about 70% or so it sounds like a vacuum. Fortunately setting it at 40-45% is all it takes to keep it pretty cool. Nothing wrong with the fan, it's just very high RPMs and moving a lot of air.

[okeee]

I checked with pc wizard, the fan speed did not change, it stayed at 40%, for 47c as well as 71c.

[okeee]

I used evga precision which seems to be designed for this. I moved the slider to 60%, but there was no noise, just a blowing fan. The noise does seem to come from the videocard, could it be one of the components of it? And is 70c too hot for a videocard?

[jlreich]

After 70c you will generally find the card will start getting artifacts and lock up.

If it is not the fan it is possible there is something loose on the card causing the noise.

But it sounds to me like it may be something else. For any other fans, while the noise is happening put your finger in the center of the fan to slow it down temporarily. If the noise lessens or goes away you have found the source. If it isn't any of the fans then put some pressure on various components to see if they are vibrating, being careful to only touch the PCB and not to touch any contacts or soldering points while the system is powered on. Do the same for various parts of the case to make sure there isn't something loose.

[okeee]

I can't slow down the fan, it is open blades are on the sides it seems?
But I noticed a few strange things:

-the noise is worst at game menus and ingame menus like maps. It sounds like water cooking (not that loud). During the games the noise less loud and different (all kinds of screams).

-I had to reinstall windows xp. games are on another partition, i did not reinstall them. The noises of some of the games disappeared after I properly reinstalled them. But this is for some of the games only, other still have the noise after reinstall.

[jlreich]

I really can't say what it is without being there. You are going to have to do your best to locate the sound and figure out what's causing it. :(

[okeee]

I'd like to update the drivers of the videocard: evga engtx260. Should I get the drivers from nvidia or from evga? And if there are many versions, which one is the best?

I also noticed this update from windows updates: "nVidia - Display - NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260". Is this another driver a have to install?

[jlreich]

Get the latest from nVidia. Never from MS update.

Make sure you uninstall the old driver first, reboot, install new drivers.

[okeee]

Ok I found these 2 drivers at nvidia for engtx260:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/winxp_190.62_whql.html
and something called "robot driver"
http://www.nvidiadriver.org/drivers.php?mk=g&tk=kidrs#geforce

I wonder which one is better?

[jlreich]

Use the one directly from nvidia. The driver robot appears to be a program that scans your system for nvidia hardware and recommends drivers. It will probably take you to the same driver you are going to download from nvidia. Why introduce a middleman when you can get it directly?

[okeee]

Ok I installed the new drivers, unfortunately the noise did not disappear.
I'd like to check on the memory with memtest86+, I still haven't done that. There is a .iso that you're supposed to burn, could it be done with a virtual dvd-drive as well?

[jlreich]

You need to burn the disk in a real drive and boot from it.