Beef cooking question.

[Jiggy]

I bought a cut of beef hung for 28 days from a farm shop, the lady in the shop told me to rest the meat out of the vac-pac for an hour before cooking, that I did, the meat had a off red almost dull colour to it with a good meat smell though when the meat was cooking it smelled like a nasty cheese and tasted different, is this normal for hung beef ? and if it had hung for 28 days would their still be blood in the vac-pac ?

Regards

Jiggy.

[Paul Komski]

The cut of beef and the method of cooking would be of some interest but just because meat is well hung shouldn't mean it has gone off. I may be old-fashioned but dislike vac-packing even though its use seems to be more and more widespread.

Well hung meat develops less and less of a blood-red colour (and which I would describe as blueish) as time goes by. It should do this with the whole side of beef hung in a well-aired cool environment and three to four weeks in not excessive. The fatter the animal the longer it can be hung-for before going from being well-hung to being off. Once cut from the side it should, in my opinion, be quickly sold in greaseproof paper. Well hung meat is tenderer and has more flavour but needs to be used more quickly than fresh beef.

One's nose is as good a way as any to tell if it is off and in my experience well hung beef smells just the same as fresh beef during cooking.

PS There will always be some seepage of blood in a vac pac. That's just one reason I don't like them. FWIW I actually farm Aberdeen-Angus beef and regularly have a local butcher prepare a side or quarter for the freezer along with enough fresh meat to last for about a week. It is always well hung 28/35 days being normal for the sort of animal involved.

[awaj]

I am now hungry...

Jiggy, what spices did you use, and did you have cheese cooking with it?

[Jiggy]

awaj - Just the meat on its own, and no...

Paul - The cut was silverside and cooked on its own wrapped in lose foil for 1.5 to 2 hours mid to high heat turned 1 hour into cooking.

Out of the vacp-pac the meat was rinsed and smelt good, but while cooking and after left to rest it smelt like a nasty cheese, as i`ve never had hung beef before only fresh I was unable to say its taste and smell were normal.

Thanks lads,

Regards

Jiggy

[Paul Komski]

Silverside means different things to different people. To some it is salt or corned beef (often cooked by steaming); to others it is a second class, but very lean, roast of topside.

What sort of cheese I wonder. That is something I have never experienced - even on dairy farms - and I cant believe is related to the hanging time. How long was the vac pack time I wonder.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

I`ve seen discussions about aging venison (insert any red meat here) for up to a week but a month?!?!?!? :eek: :eek:

Was it refrigerated? Hung outdoors? What was the average temp? What was the peak temp?

I as one of many do not believe in the need for aging w-h-a-t-s-o-e-v-e-r. When I down an animal the viscera is removed immediately and if possible, it is brought to the butcher for processing the same day, at worst, the following morning. I have NEVER had any tainted or turned meat.

The local butchers put the cattle `out of it`s misery` then immediately process it. I like to follow what they have been doing for eons.

the meat had a off red almost dull colour

That meat was turned and would have never made it to see the inside my oven. I don`t think the vac pack is to blame but hanging meat unfrozen for 28 days is ridiculous! Even cut and processed, sitting in packages in a grocers cooler, it loses color quickly (withing 2-3 days), is then marked down (discounted) and if not sold that (approx 4th) day, it is tossed as not fit for human consumption.

[Paul Komski]

Cattle killed for beef in "Western" abbatoirs are then immediately bled, eviscerated and then hung at just above freezing temperature 1 to 2 and maybe upto 4 deg C. Freezing is avoided unless in airtight plastic since it both dehydrates the meat and stops the autolysis needed to tenderise meat. Meat used within 24 hours of killing will be especially tough since the carcass is still in "rigor mortis".

Red fleshed animals such as cattle, venison and much game are suitable for hanging. Pale fleshed animals, notably chicken and pork, are not. The carcasses must have a good coating of fat (the more the better) in order to be good for hanging and a thin animal should be processed within days.

I like to follow what they have been doing for eons.I believe, but don't know for sure, that both Halal and Kosher processes use meat soon after slaughter - such slaughter being performed by cutting the animals' throats. In the West the hanging of red meat has been going on for hundreds of years and has been embellished and allowed to last longer with the introduction of refrigerators.

If the carcasses are of the appropriate type and the hanging done in the correct environment following a proper method of killing or slaughter it is merely a matter of taste and there is no public health issue.

sitting in packages in a grocers cooler, it loses color quickly (withing 2-3 days), is then marked downThis has nothing to do with the hanging process which is an intact appropriate carcass or side hung in air just above freezing point.

[Paul Komski]

I don`t think the vac pack is to blameI'm glad this was mentioned because, truth be told, I don't know what to think about vacuum-packing. It seems to preserve meat OK but all the vac-pak meat I see in butchers over here never has a packing date or best-before/use-before date stamped on it. Much of such packaging seems to be used to transfer meat between the trade itself. Ideally it should also be kept at very low temperatures if a long shelf-life is desired but it is interesting to note that for the first few days after packing it is necessary for a small amount of bacterial activity to actually proceed in order to remove the last traces of oxygen from the packages. I have come across one fairly good explanatory article from Australia in pdf format (http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=2&ved=0CBMQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.meatupdate.csiro.au%2Fdata%2F Meat_quality_and_packaging_04-88.pdf&ei=ZBjPSozzNs6F4Qb06d2rAw&rct=j&q=how+long+vacuum+packed+meat&usg=AFQjCNGDtagviQ9GT1NBgwTVKnmgE0K2SA) which amongst other things mentions changes in the appearance, odour and display characteristics of such packaging. I have to presume that such anaerobic packaging is safe since it seems to be very widespread but I am aware that botulism poisoning only ever occurs in anaerobic packaging. I would be most interested if any peeps can throw any other light or have their own thoughts on this type of packaging.

I do have one particular bee in my bonet about plastic packaging of all sorts and simply detest it. I think far too much plastic is used to cover food and in my own opinion plastic and fat soluble foods should not ever touch each other because there are residual elemements that can leach from plastic into fat; these apparently include radicals that mimic oestrogen hormones - but I will have to search for that research later on.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

Rigor mortis can be forcefully overcome as soon as it sets in if desired so that is a moot point IMO. As far as the fact of hanging, yes. If I am to hang the carcass for overnight, it goes in a refrigerated area approximately at 34 degrees F and if that is not available, I tend to it early the next morning to bring it to be butchered. Hanging can most likely be done longer than I mention but I like to err on the side of caution and put more stringent standards upon my own practices.

It is true about plastic however. I have heard/read about not using it as a fluid container as it will still leach into the liquid and therefore be unhealthy in the long term. But it soo commonplace these days. Bottled water, milk, pop/soda, fruit juices, yogurt, cottage cheese, individual cheese slices, so on and so forth, it is almost impossible to get away from.

My butcher does not use the vacuum pack system so I have no first hand experience with it but it is extremely popular all around me and I have not observed nor heard of any problem arising directly because of it. Instead he uses the common coated white butcher paper which is coated (probably with plastic :rolleyes: )

[Paul Komski]

The following two links relate to the oestrogenic nature of plastic and its possible impact on the incidence (indeed epidemic) of breast cancer.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2005/may/30/food.foodanddrink
http://ezinearticles.com/?3-Ways-to-Reduce-Breast-Cancer-Risk&id=81130

There are those that also attribute the same compounds to the growth of male infertility and low sperm counts over the past 50 or so years.

I first read about this some years ago when the oestrogenic nature of plastic was noticed in a laboratory where they were doing research - originally using glass test tubes - but later on they changed over to plastic test tubes. They then kept getting very strange results until it was realised that the oestrogenic results were due to the plastic itself. I have never seen this widely reported so it is probably untrue or they have changed the types of plastic involved or (for those who believe in conspiracy theories) the results have been supressed by the food and plastics industries.

P.S.
Another source of oestrogens in the environment is from urine from women taking the contraceptive pill making its way into rivers. The associated phenomenom is the theory that fish so exposed change their sex from male to female - something that has happened here and there for otherwise inexplicable reasons. Fish can do this by the way.

Rigor mortis can be forcefully overcome as soon as it sets in if desiredHe he! Well maybe that is the approach to take. OK with a rabbit maybe but not so easy with half a ton of beef.

[Fruss Tray Ted]

I was referring to a beast as big as myself such as deer but the moose we were allowed to harvest a few years ago by lottery is another story. RM or not, it is some of the very best meat I have EVER tasted. I assure you NONE was wasted. And it also needed to be softened (limbered) up just to be able to fit it on the trailer.

Please, if you don`t do this type of thing on a regular basis firsthand, try to resist theorizing on it.

The young bull was 657 or so pounds.

[Paul Komski]

Please, if you don`t do this type of thing on a regular basis firsthand, try to resist theorizing on it.

I'm not sure that I understand. Theorizing on what; on the term "easy" made in a jocular comment? FWIW I handle live bulls every day of the week and visit abattoirs weekly where carcasses up to a ton weight or more are handled.

The theory behind the chemistry of rigor mortis is a different matter and well understood. The primary cause is a depletion of ATP as muscle becomes deoxygenated with a consequent build up of lactic acid. This acidity increases the levels of calcium ions in the muscle cells' sarcoplasm and this induces each muscle fibre (at a microscopic level) to contract. Whether bending the limbs of a recently dead animal actually tenderizes meat is not something I have ever seen written about and have no comment to make about it. If it is the case perhaps butchers would, or do, do it on a regular basis such that there would be no need to hang meat and incur the costs of such storage and refrigeration.

[Paul Komski]

http://i38.tinypic.com/1o25w4.jpg

Pic taken this evening of an 18 month old approx 450 Kg "youngster" named Black Jester. Indeed he's for sale if there are any takers. He should be a big boy indeed by this time next year.

2000 guineas and he's anyone's to take away!

[Whyzman]

How many pounds of Rib Eyes will such a beast produce when mature?? YUM! ;)

[david eaton]

i was thinking of an oxtail - cut off just behind the horns!

[Ajmukon]

I am so glad i am eating right now, otherwise, i would be very hungry right now...

[stefanus]

i was thinking of an oxtail - cut off just behind the horns!

LOL...;>)

Meat in Zimbabwe is normally hung for 3 weeks plus, in a cool room. When it matures it takes on a marble effect and tastes much better than the beef here, which has a liverish taste. I agree with Paul. Silverside is normally cooked and made into corned beef. Normally steeped in brine for a week and before cooking, soaking over night, depending on the size of cut, then cooked in water.
Another way to cook beef is in a pot roaster, add water plus one or two small onions and cook on medium heat, turning and basting every half an hour till cooked.