Low level format

[tarat72]

I have a very powerful Hewlett Packard. I bought it through a family member who had a friend that built them. I don't have a lot of computer experience but once I got this system home I proceeded to download and upload everything that I could get my hands on! Of cource I have started having all kinds of problems with it! I have started reading about computers and I am slowly learning how they work. What I would like to do now is run a low level format and restore the system to brand new! My problem is that I don't have the disk that the hard drive was formatted with to begin with! I am desperate to restart with this system! It has a 40GIG hard drive, over 300MB of RAM, a top of the line video card....etc.... Can anyone help me? I would really appreciate it! I swear that if I can ever get this thing back to basic I will be very cautious about how I treat it from now on! My main problem I think is that I may be missing some very important Registry files! HELP!!! Thanks!

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Tara F. Timblin

[TVC15]

Just doing a normal format should get rid of everything from your hard drive. This is quite a simple procedure requiring only a Win95/98 boot disk. I'm sure that details of how to do this have been posted many times on the forums and I'm fairly sure there is an article on it somewhere in the PC Guide, too.

If you think that you may have a virus, however, then it may be an idea to perform a low level format. Sometimes this is an option in the PC's bios. If not, then try and find out who the manufacturer of your hard drive is (this info is sometimes displayed when the system first boots up) and then see if you can download a low level format utility from there web site.

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Up every evening 'bout half eight or nine,

I give my complete attention to a very good friend of mine.

[Randy_tx]

Well.......where do we start???.....Here's what I would do if it were my machine:
1. Buy a copy of Win98 SE (OEM ver)
2. Get a Win98 Startup Disk (comes with the Win98 OEM package or you can get a friend to make one for you....and put Format.com on it (from another machine if necessary)...just type in the "Find" sect. "format.com - and it will find a copy to put on a floppy
3. Format the hard drive (a low level format isn't necessary unless you had a boot virus)
4. Boot with the Win98 boot disk and choose "CD Rom support"
5. Put the Win98 OEM cd in the cd rom
6. change directories from A prompt to D prompt (assuming it is the drive the cd rom is on)
7. type install
When its done you will have Win 98 on the computer and then you need to reinstall all of the drivers for video, sound and modem if win98 didnt and all of your programs you want to use..........Good luck

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"As hard as a rock & dumb as a brick"...Windows CEMeNT

[Randy_tx]

WOOPS.......under #7 ....type SETUP and hit enter


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"As hard as a rock & dumb as a brick"...Windows CEMeNT

[This message has been edited by Randy_tx (edited 03-15-2001).]

[tarat72]

Thanks for the help guys. Randy, I have a windows98 disk that I got when I bought the computer, I'm not sure which version but I have used it several times to reinstall Windows to see if that would solve my problems. I made a Windows boot disk off of that CD the last time that I reinstalled it. Is that all I need? BY the way, I'm sure that you already know this, but reinstalling Windows seems to create more problems most of the time! I always end up losing .DLLs!!! Those things are a real pain in the butt!!lol I really do appreciate the help! I'll be waiting for your next reply.
Tara

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Tara F. Timblin

[TVC15]

I usually do that slightly differently, Randy.

At step 6, instead of instead of just typing install, you can do the follwing.

6. Change to the C drive

7. Type the following and press enter

md win98


8. Type the following and press enter

copy e:\win98\*.* c:\win98

9. Type the following and press enter

cd win98


10. Type the following and press enter

setup


Follow the on screen instructions as normal to install Windows.

This method has 2 advantages:

1. It is slightly quicker (installing from the hard drve is faster than installing from a CD Rom)

2. You will never be asked for your Windows 98 CD when adding or removing programs. Instead, Windows will just read it from the Win98 directory on your hard drive.



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Up every evening 'bout half eight or nine,

I give my complete attention to a very good friend of mine.

[tjaymadison]

Your options for getting your machine "back to basic" will depend on which operating system and version you have. It could be a full version, an upgrade, or a manufacturer's restore CD. The procedure for each is quite different, so if you post back with this info you'll get more specific help.

Be very careful about a "low-level format"!! This term is really a misnomer, and can not truly be done on newer ATA/EIDE hard drives. If you have this option somewhere in your BIOS setup program, I'd strongly advise against using it. There are utility programs -- like Norton and maybe some free ones -- that will overwrite all data with zeroes or ones or whatever, and some people call this a low-level format.

Added: Sorry, other posts showed up while I was writing this.

[This message has been edited by tjaymadison (edited 03-15-2001).]

[tarat72]

tjaymadison, Any way that you could tell me how to go about getting that info? I would be glad to repost with it if it will help me fix this mess! Thanks,
Tara

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Tara F. Timblin

[Randy_tx]

TVC's way might be better for the long run tarat......the reason you kept having problems when you reinstalled is that you were just copying win98 on top of itself rather than starting "Fresh" like has been suggested.

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"As hard as a rock & dumb as a brick"...Windows CEMeNT

[tarat72]

Okay, thanks guys! I am going to attempt it tonight. I'm hoping that this is going to fix the problems that I am having. Will this take care of any bad blocks that are showing up when I run Defrags? I swear that if I can ever get this right I will be diligent about keeping my system clean!
Tara

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Tara F. Timblin

[This message has been edited by tarat72 (edited 03-15-2001).]

[Randy_tx]

Yikes http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/frown.gif .......you didnt mention "bad blocks" before (they show up as a result of Hard Drive problems & CAUSE windows problems)....If you find more than 10 or so errors when you run a thorough Scan Disk......you MIGHT have a failing Hard Drive and reinstalling Windows (even if scandisk "marks" or prevents access to the bad sectors) will result in more errors down the line if the Hard Drive continues to go downhill. BEFORE you go to the trouble of reinstalling I would run Scandisk Thorough to find out if MORE bad sectors are found......if they are, you need to consider a new Hard Drive before going any further.

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"As hard as a rock & dumb as a brick"...Windows CEMeNT

[TVC15]

Randy is spot on. Bad sectors are definately bad news and it is a problem that will only get worse. Windows may well mark sectors as bad but as more sectors start to fail it can't always keep up and your data will sooner or later get corrupted.

But it's not all bad news! The fact that you have a 40GB hard drive suggests to me that it is still quite new. Most hard drive manufacturers will give you a 3 year warranty nowadays. You should find out the make of your drive and check out the returns policy on the manufacturers web site. Companies like Maxtor have a particularly efficient returns policy. They get you you to run a quick diagnostic test and if this proves the drive is faulty then they will actually send you a new drive straight away. (you do have to provide them with a credit card number but this is only charged if you fail to return the faulty drive within 30 days).

By the way, if you do decide to go ahead with the reformat then make sure you watch the drive when it goes through the format. If you see messages like "trying to recover allocation unit" then its a sure sign that the drive is on its way out.



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Up every evening 'bout half eight or nine,

I give my complete attention to a very good friend of mine.

[tarat72]

Thanks Randy, I will try that tonight! I think that last time that I ran a regular scandisk it came back with between 7 and 10 errors. I didn't count them because it said that it fixed all of them???? I didn't see the bad block myself, a friend ran the Defrag for me the last time and she said that it showed one bad block.??? This Hard drive is less than a year old though. If it is going bad I will have to blame it on myself!! Do you think that missing registry files would be the cause of a bad block? I will try to run a defrag again tonight and check for myself. The last time that I ran a thorough scan disk it took about 8 hours!!! Talk about YIKES!!! Really, this system should be running alot more efficiently! I feel like a dope! I probably should have started out with your run of the mill, off the shelf PC! But I got such a great deal on this one and my friend said that once I learned them I would be able to do anything with this one!!! I guess I should have learned FIRST huh??? lol http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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Tara F. Timblin

[tarat72]

TVC15,
Think that you could tell me how to find out all the info I need on the Drive? I know that all that stuff rolls by during setup right? How do I stop it long enough to write this stuff down? See, thing is, I kind of got this thing through one of those friend of a friend type deals! The guy that built it lives half the country away from me! I am pretty sure that all the components are Hewlett Packard if that helps???? I didn't get the disk that was used to format the Hard Drive, I didn't get any paperwork on the components, I didn't even get the drivers for the DVD!! I've had this thing a year and I still don't have those!! I bet you the next time I buy a computer it will be through a dealer!! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif

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Tara F. Timblin

[Randy_tx]

Just to allay your fears.......there is nothing you have done which would result in "Bad Blocks" or sectors http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif They occur usually as a result of years of wear, an electrical spike (lightning) or premature mechanical failure of the HD armature. So see.......your "newness" to this sort of stuff had no bearing on this result !! Dont worry.......be happy http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

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"As hard as a rock & dumb as a brick"...Windows CEMeNT

[tarat72]

Thanks Randy! That does make me feel better! I know that it can't be age and everything that I own is on surge protectors so a power spike would pretty much be out of the question too. So I'm probably just dealing with a bad drive that has been waiting to die since I bought the thing! In that case, how much is it going to run me to get a new drive the same size?

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Tara F. Timblin

[TVC15]

When you switch the PC on it should tell you what sort of processor you have and then count up your memory. Straight after that, it should detect you hard drive (except it will probably call it something like an IDE master). Usually, it will also display the manufacturer of the drive for a few seconds. If you miss it it then you can reset your system a couple of times until you manage to get it.

(Actually, I'm sure there is a way to slow down the post process so that you can freeze it at certain stages. Perhaps somebody else can suggest how to do this.)

Common names to look out for are Maxtor, Western Digital, Seagate, Quantum and (god help you!) Fujitsu.

Once you know who the manufacturer is, do a search on Yahoo and find their web page. Then have a look around for the "support" or "returns" section and see what their procedures are.

Actually, if you just find out who the manufacturer is, then let me know and I'll have a search around for you.

Good luck,

Andy



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Up every evening 'bout half eight or nine,

I give my complete attention to a very good friend of mine.

[tarat72]

Thanks Andy. I will check that out when I get home and I will let you know tomorrow.
Tara http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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Tara F. Timblin

[Paleo Pete]

OK, couple of things.

1. The [Pause] key will hold any screen during boot long enough you can read it. Any other key will resume booting. I avoid using the [Enter] key for this as a habit. That way I don't use [Enter] out of habit at the wrong time. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif

2. The Tech Page (http://www.thetechpage.com/cgi-bin/default.cgi) has specs and jumper settings for about any drive you can think of. Write down the manufacturer's name and the drive's model number, usually on a sticker on back of the drive, and you can look it up there.

3. Scandisk: Boot to a command prompt using the [F8] key or hold down [Ctrl] during boot till you get the boot menu. Choose Command Prompt Only and type this command:
scandisk_c:_/autofix_/nosummary_/surface
using spaces in place of the underscores used here. That will run a complete scandisk, leave out the /nosummary parameter and you'll have to "babysit it, but you'll get a notice each time it finds errors, and you'll know about how many are on it.

As stated above, low level format should not be done, that's done at the factory, and only useful for MFM/RLL drives. You can look up the drive manufacturer's website and get a "zero fill" utility, buty a normal fdisk and format should do the trick. fdisk might not be necessary, depends on the situation, and I would actually recommend it on a 40GB drive, to separate it into smaller partitions.

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Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[tarat72]

Thanks Pete, I will give that a try this afternoon. I tried to look for the manufacturer of my hard drive last night but for some reason my info is no longer scrolling during startup??? I picked up some books last night on DOS and Windows so maybe I will be able to figure out how to find it on my own. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif I did check out the system discription: I have an Authentic AMD AMD Athlon (tm) Processor, 384.0MB of RAM, 32 bit file, Generic IDE type 01 38.1GB hard drive. Does any of that help anyone??? http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif
I also ran a regular scan disk last night. It said that it found errors and fixed them, one of the items in the list that it displays was 524,288 bytes in bad sector. I also ran a defrag through Windows first, I did not see any bad blocks there. However, I ran one through McAffee Office, it does show a bad block. It is seperated from the rest, but it's there. The info says that clusters 367360-967375 are bad?? I am so confused and frustrated with this thing that I could just throw it through a window! Really, at this point I think that it would look much better in a broken heap on the front lawn! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif All I can do is try the format with my windows boot disk! I guess I will attempt it tonight. Wish me luck! Thanks for all the help guys and I will let you know how it works out!

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Tara F. Timblin

[TVC15]

Looks like you might have to open up the case to get the manufacturer of the hard drive. If you've never done that before then don't worry. There are plenty of people on here who will talk you through it.

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Up every evening 'bout half eight or nine,

I give my complete attention to a very good friend of mine.

[Jumby]

I'll be glad to e-mail you a copy of a boot disk a tech. gave me that will make setting up for win95 or 98 easy. It's a boot disk that has all the files ready to be used and copied, including CD Rom support. You just go through steps A, B, and C. It's real simple. Let me know if you want it.

[tarat72]

sure, tarat72@hotmail.com......Thanks!

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Tara F. Timblin

[GROGSTER]

Hi!

AWARD BIOS will let you do a low-level format from the CMOS menu.
Other BIOS's may not.

If you want to flatten your HDD, and start again from scratch, I reccomend using a wee program called ZAPDISK.
This small program fills the MBR(Master Boot Record) of your primary HDD(usually the "C:\" drive) with zeros, obitorating any old OS boot-up info, and cleaning the boot sectors of any possible viruses.

This program is VERY dangerous in the hands of someone who does not know what they are doing, as once run, this program will render your HDD in-accessable without special recovery tools, and with the MBR full of zeroes, then the computer will not be able to boot from it!!!
(until it is re-sysed for another OS)

I run this program on any and all HDD's that I re-install, to ensure that there is no boot-sector viruses hanging around.

If you would like a copy of this program(it's only about 20k or so), then e-mail me directly at <rixon@es.co.nz>, and I will zap it too you.

This offer is extended to everyone else who reads this, that thinks ZAPDISK could be useful.


G.