missing cd rom

[Vic 970]

pc crashed whilst working in iPhotoplus having scanned in a photo (may or may not be relevant.)with the following message...,
IDE caused an invalid page fault in module KERNEL32.DLL......etc.etc.....
since then it has either frozen up on startup, or gone to reset, ie. rebooted, with message 'windows was not closed down properly' then run scandisk, & after several attempts it gets up & running again. Even then it freezes up after a short while. I have managed to print off a short document, but it froze when I tried to backup some latest work to cd. Also it now does not detect the cd drive 'D' although it detects the cd/rw drive 'E' .................But then again sometimes it does not detect 'E' either, and occasionally will detect 'D' in device manager, though not in my computer or explorer. it has now even locked up the tray & refuses to recognise the data.

the only programs I have recently installed are clean sweep & serif page plus & I have now deleted them, but no difference.
o/s is W95.
?????????????????????????



[This message has been edited by Vic 970 (edited 01-19-2001).]

[Vic 970]

Have now got the cd out of the drive: but the system continues to crash, (more frequently), latest messsage 'VSMON has caused an invalid page fault in KERNEL.32'
also I have a message in 'system: performance' Drive C is using MS DOS compatability mode' and indicates a problem in autexec.bat or config.sys

------------------
Vic

[mjc]

Probably one of the programs you installed (I'm thinking Cleansweap) added a path statement to autoexec.bat that since you uninstalled it Win95 can't find. Boot into DOS and type edit_autoexec.bat (use a space instead of the _)at the C:\ and type rem (for remark) in front of the SET Path=.....MCAFEE line (leave a space between the m in rem and the s in SET). This causes the line to be treated like an editorial comment instead of a program instruction.

Then reboot and run scandisk. Let it fix any errors it finds and rebooot again.

------------------
mjc

[Paleo Pete]

And remember to put a space behind rem.

You can also do the same in Safe Mode, go to Start\Run and type in sysedit, then click OK. The first window that comes up is autoexec.bat, add the rem statement, save and exit. The autoexec.bat and config.sys commands are not case sensitive, so all caps or lower case will work, either way. You can do the same in normal mode, if you can get the computer to come up and run fairly decent, but Safe Mode might be a bit less frustrating.

To deal with the MS DOS Compatibility Mode problem, Q130179 (http://support.microsoft.com/support/kb/articles/Q130/1/79.asp) might help.

I'm thinking mjc is probably correct, it could be related to Clean Sweep, I've used iPhoto Plus for about 3 years, since I bought my scanner and have never had a minute's trouble with it. Just to be on the safe side, once you get the opther problems taken care of you might go through your iPhoto settings, especially the scanner setup, and make sure everything is correct, or as a last resort, uninstall and reinstall iPhoto Plus. Reboot before reinstalling, of course...I don't think tinkering with iPhoto will be very necessary, except for verifying the settings, I think it's more likely related to something else.

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[Vic 970]

There is no ref. to mcafee or cleansweep. the autoexec.bat file looks like this...,

SET BLASTER=A220 15 D1 T4
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\WAVEINIT.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\WAVETSR.COM

rem - By Windows Setup - MSCDEX.EXE /D:OEMCD001 /L http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
PATH C:\BITWARE\;C:\PROGR~1\ESAFE\PROTECT
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I have entered rem before PATH (rem PATH) but it has made no difference. and have looked at the site Q130179. The info on this suggests loss of a hard disk controller in device manager, but the hard disk controllers are present, what is missing is the hard disk itself together with the CD ROM drive, it used to look like this..,

CD
ATARI (ref. no.)
YAMAHA (ref.No.)

DRIVES
GENERIC FLOPPY DISC DRIVE
GENERIC (Ref. No.)(Being Hard Drive C)

Now it only shows

CD

YAMAHA (ref.No.)

DRIVES
GENERIC FLOPPY DISC DRIVE

Which is not covered in the document, I've tried Auto Detect & Manual detect but without success. The last drive fitted was the Yamaha (some time ago) and all have been running OK. (until now)



------------------
Vic

[Paleo Pete]

From what you posted it looks like your hard drive controller is no longer there.
Now it only shows

CD

YAMAHA (ref.No.)

DRIVES
GENERIC FLOPPY DISC DRIVE

Not being able to boot consistently it might be difficult, but I would say run the Add New Hardware Wizard from Control Panel and see if you can reinstall the hard drive controller. Try it in Safe Mode, I don't know for sure if it will work, but it might...



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[Vic 970]

The Controllers are there but not the drive itself, it looks like this..,

Computer
-----CDROM
-------YAMAHA CRW8824E
Disk Drives
---------GENERIC NEC FLOPPY DISK
+ Display Adaptors
Floppy Disc Controllers
----------Standard Floppy Disc Controller
Hard Disc Controllers
------------Primary IDE Controller (dual fifo)
------------Secondary IDE controller (dual fifo)
------------SiS 5513 Dual PCI IDE Controller
HCFMODEM

etc.etc.
The controllers are not available in 'Add new hardware' to reinstall.

There are various suggestions in some of the notes from the site Q130179 that the autoexec.bat and or config.sys files may have been corrupted by a virus, plus details how to check, I have checked and the results came up OK. The other was that the Controller was missing and to re-install (but we've already gone over that.)

There are also other notes about the Registry making backups, and if neccasary rename USER.DAO and SYSTEM.DAO and/or SYSTEM.1ST to USER.DAT and SYSTEM.DAT respectively. but presumably I would have to delete the originals first.

I wondered if I tried to setup or install WINDOWS from the original W95 cd whether it would over-ride the files and correct the problem, but I'm no PC genius.

What do you think ?

Or ultimately start from scratch ? Maybe even upgrade to W98 ! But what would that entail ?

By the way I am able to get the PC to run, but it's slow and crashes if I give it too much to do, it goes through several 'boots' but gets there eventually.

------------------
Vic

[Paleo Pete]

You don't delete the original registry files when you rename, you rename them first. I use my initials, so I know exactly which ones I renamed if I need to try and replace them later. If you look up the files, you'll have several different ones, system.daO, user.da0, system.1st, user.1st and others with different extensions created during installations, when a program makes changes to the registry and renames the originals.

From a C:\> prompt you can find out a couple different ways, if you know your way around in DOS a bit. They are stored in C:\WINDOWS, so if you're already there:

C:\>WINDOWS would be the command prompt.

dir_/w_|more
using spaces in place of the underscores ( _ ) will give you a wide directory, and one page at a time. Press any key to scroll to the next page. (I avoid using [Enter] for this just to be on the safe side.)

Ignore system.ini, it's a different animal. Anything that's system.*** AND user.*** with the same extension are registry backups. You need both and they have to have the same extension. Write them all down, so you can decide which ones to replace.

Another way:

dir_/p is more effective, it gives you a directory listing one page at a time, and includes the dates. Those might come in handy. Any key scrolls to the next page. The drawback is the windows folder has lots of files, and it may take several pages to list them all.

dir_system.* and dir_user.* will bring up only the files with those names, and any extensions found. I prefer the second method, even though it takes a bit longer. I can double check the dates as well.

Once you decide which ones to use, remember they have to have the same extension and date, it's fairly simple, but make sure you don't make a mistake.

ren_system.dat_system.abc (use your initials instead of abc)

ren_user.dat_user.abc

ren_system.xyz_system.dat (for .xyz use the proper extension you picked.)

ren_user.xyz_user.dat

and that's it. Reboot, and you should have a new registry. If you need to replace it with the originals for some reason, reverse the procedure, and you already know the extension you need is your initials.

------------------
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[Vic 970]

Couldn't find the required files in DOS. found 4 System files and 1 User file but not the ones I wanted. I'm not very good with DOS & PC kept crashing whilst I was trying to get info from the net to see if there were any 'hidden'.

I then found the files in Windows. System.dat & User.dat plus System.daO & User.daO I also found System.1st but no User.1st

So, I renamed the dat files to 'vsc' & copied the daO files & renamed them to dat then re-booted. It now re-boots better but the other problems persist.
(By the way I also downloaded a copy of 'regclean' which I tried on the original files, and it found - then fixed problems. Didn't alter the machine though. But when I tried it on the copied & re-named files it DIDN'T find any problems.)

Anyway to the other part, a suggestion (from downloaded notes) that the driver in Config.sys may be corrupt. So using the same technique that you suggested I copied it from floppy, re-named it and pasted it to replace the original………No difference.

I have been thinking about the drives, and both C & D are on the Primary IDE channel (Neither of these are recognised) The CDRW (E) is on the Secondary IDE channel (which is recognised. And working,) & the Floppy (A. working) I believe must be on the Sis 5513 channel. Which leads me to believe that the Primary IDE channel MUST be corrupt.

If that IS the case, then the 'Primary IDE controller' must have been loaded from the original disks, so can I access & copy it from them?

I look forward to your further advice.




------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[Paleo Pete]

If the drives on primary IDE are not being recognized, check BIOS and make sure the settings and parameters are correct.

I'm beginning to wonder if you have a virus or possibly a bad motherboard...run a virus scanner and see if it comes up with anything.

------------------
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[Vic 970]

Hi,

Have done virus check – None Found. Don’t know how to check BIOS settings,

But in Device Manager/General it states…,

Primary IDE Controller (dual fifo)

STATUS:
This device is not present, not working properly, or does not have all the drivers installed, see your hardware documentation (code 10)

Parent device SiS 5513 dual PCI IDE Controller

NO CONFLICTS

Under Driver Tab, it states

No driver files are required or have been loaded for this device

I have checked all connections, both externally & internally (well you never know) but found nothing loose.

But having paused the 2nd page on start up…, it states….,

Award Plug & Play BIOS Extension v1.OA

Detecting HDD Primary Master ST32122A
Detecting HDD Primary Slave DF6910C(-D18)2
Detecting HDD Secondary Master None
Detecting HDD Secondary Slave YAMAHA CRW8824E

Which appears to be what the set up is, (assuming the numbers refer to the devices) and in one of the following pages it actually identifies the 2 slaves as CD ROM. So it would appear to be detecting these at start up but they are not appearing in Device Manager.

??????????????????


------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[Vic 970]

Have checked BIOS Setup. All HDDs are set to Auto.

------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[Paleo Pete]

One thing I see that might not solve the problem, but may help, is you have a Secondary slave listed and no Secondary Master. If you only have one drive on the secondary IDE channel you need to check the jumpers on the back of the CD/RW and set it as Master, and usually it's best to have it on the end of the cable, not the middle connector. It should work on the middle connector, but the standard setup is Master on the end, Slave in the middle, for the purpose of consistency.



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[Vic 970]

Hi,
The CDRW was the previously the subject of a topic on the forum, the last post was 30/10/2000. it is now on page 6.
The CDRW would not work as stated in the manual (ie. as Master on Secondary Circiut.) but I got it working on the present setup. I think it is on the END of the cable but set as Slave not Master.
The only SYSTEM change that I made was in Device Manager. which was to change the setting from Default (which was unspecified) to Both IDE channels enabled. And it has worked fine since then (October) until the current problem. I have just re-set this back to Default (just to see what happened) but it has made no difference. (It remains set at Default currently.)

I think that we have pinned down the problem to the Primary HDD Controller, but what exactly is this? Is it a physical component, such as memory or a sound card, which can be removed and fitted, or is it a command line or what?

The only other thing that has crossed my mind is that the Primary cable has become faulty, but I think that is unlikely (particularly as all devices show up on the startup screen) and maybe I'm clutching at straws.




[This message has been edited by Vic 970 (edited 01-27-2001).]

[Paleo Pete]

Sometimes CD drives will work better if set to Cable Select, I have one that does. Don't know why, but it works perfect, while it won't wosk at all if set as Master or Slave, and on the end or middle of the cable. this might apply to CD RW too, I'm not sure, only way to find out is try it and see.

The IDE controller is a physical controller circuit built into the motherboard, if it's gone bad you can either disable it in BIOS or with jumpers on the motherboad, and add a controller card, or replace the motherboard.



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[Vic 970]

The CDRW is working fine (on secondary IDE controller) has been for 3 months. It's the CD ROM & Hard Drive thats not working (on Primary IDE controller) Hard drive as Master & CD ROM as Slave (have been set like that for 2 years since I had the PC,

Would it be worth trying to re-install windows? & if so how do I un-install internet explorer, as apparently windows wont re-install with ie present.

Or what else can I try?

------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[Paleo Pete]

Ok, guess I misunderstood...

Yes, by all means replace the cable. You can have a bad cable and the drives will still show up, but not work. The wires needed to tell the computer the drives are there are OK, but the wires that carry data may be toast. Try a new cable. Double check the orientation, and make sure you plug the new one in exactly the same as the old one.

The colored stripe on one side should go on the #1 pin on both drive and controller.

------------------
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[Vic 970]

Have changed the cable but it made no difference. I have now removed the CD ROM & CDRW. & have switched the hard drive onto the Secondary Controller. The SECONDARY Controller now shows up as the one at fault.

Guess this rules out the motherboard, but the clues in device manager suggest a driver problem, yet it also states that 'No Drivers are required or have been loaded for this device.'
So what to suspect now? Maybe the Hard Drive, but would that work in DOS compatability mode if it was at fault? or is there a driver built into the hard drive that has fizzled?

Also I got an e-mail from someone who said that they had had a similar problem, which was due to a conflicting driver, and advised to remove HDD Controller from Device Manager and reboot, which would then cause it to re-detect. But I have tried to do this several times, & every time I try to remove it the system freezes and I have to re-boot.

What can I try Now?



------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[Paleo Pete]

OK...You move the hard drive to the secondary controller, and suddenly the problem moves to secondary controller. That makes me think the hard drive is flaky. Do you have another hard drive you can try? If so I would drop it in there and see how it acts. It doesn't have to be a large one, something with windows on it so you can see if it comes up and runs.

Try moving it back to primary, and remove the hard drive controllers from Device manager in Safe Mode. Install nothing but the Hard drive for now, leave the CD ROM drives out unless you don't have the windows cab files copied to the hard drive. If that is the case you'll need the CD ROM drive since windows will need the CD to reinstall the hard drive controllers.

If you finally have to reinstall windows, removing Internet Explorer is easy, you format the drive, which removes everything. Back up anything you need first, if you can. One note...formatting and reinstalling is a last resort only, and I haven't given up hope yet, so keep that plan on the back burner for now.

If you don't have a different hard drive to try you might take that one to a reputable computer shop and have them check it out for you.

------------------
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[Vic 970]

Have'nt got a spare hard drive, & have tried several times to run in safe mode, each time after a long delay I get a message 'registery error': 'the registry could not be assesed, click to backup & reboot.'

each time after doing that I get the same message. I have copied and renamed the backups as previously suggested but to no avail.

The hard drive is back as primary master with no other devices (ie: CD roms.) fitted.



[This message has been edited by Vic 970 (edited 01-30-2001).]

[Paleo Pete]

Unless you have a virus hiding in there somewhere I'm stumped...can't think of anything else to try.

------------------
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[Vic 970]

Well I've just called at one of the local computer shops, to beg or borrow a hard drive to try (without success) but upon disscussing the problem he suggested that this is not an unusual problem with a Cyrix system. in that the drivers can sometimes suddenly go missing, and that the solution is to clean the hard drive & set up again.

Now I'm quite prepared to do this (hopefully will get a little experience) but have never done it before, have installed & uninstalled programs thats all)

But I'm not sure what I need etc. I do not have the original w95 disc. I did have when I bought the computer, from a local guy who built the PC. but some programs did'nt work and he came to set it up again, & found (he said) that the disc was faulty & set up windows from another disc,(copying the w95 folder onto the hard drive (which I have since put onto a CD) but he did leave me the licence and manual, together with CD's for other programs. He has since left the country.

What essentially do I need?

------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[Paleo Pete]

You need a start up disk and the Windows CD, or the cab files copied onto the hard drive. The CD key should be printed on the license, and as long as you do own a legal copy of the software, you can borrow a CD from a friend and use it. Microsoft doesn't care which CD you install from, as long as you have that license...

Then you need to check out a couple of websites:

Quick Guide to a Win98 Fresh Start (http://www.hardwarehell.com/fdisk.htm) Win 95 works almost exactly the same.

Bootdisk (http://www.bootdisk.com) is a good site to check if you don't have a start up disk. Get the win98 disk, it automatically installs temporary CD ROM drivers for the installation.

Hard Disk Partitioning and Formatting Procedure (http://www.pcguide.com/proc/setup/hdd-c.html)

How to fdisk A Hard Drive (http://www.sybercom.net/jtmurphy/page11.htm)

Also take a look around the forums, I posted instructions on copying the cab files to the hard drive in the last 2 or 3 days, it shouldn't be too hard to find, and might just be educational as well.

I really need to drop that into a notepad file and have it ready so I don't have to type it every time...

------------------
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[Jumby]

If possible get rid of thet Cyrix chip.

[sea69]

?

------------------
ok...so now what ??

[Vic 970]

Well, so far so good.
I've got the number from my licence, a friend is loaning me a w98 start up disc, I've got my program discs ready, my driver floppies for modem and sound card, & I,ve downloaded the info suggested & am busy reading it.

As for getting rid of the Cyrix chip, well I have been thinking of upgrading the system, but I need more memory, a bigger hard drive etc. etc. & systems around here are down in price at the moment, so I am hoping soon to be able to replace the system which I think will be the best option.
The processes that I have performed recently (plus the ones that I am about to perform) plus all the experience I have learned in doing them, will hopefully guide me to purchasing the best system that I can afford. so all's been well worthwhile. But meantime I want to get the present one up & running to the best of my ability.

I have some important work to do on the machine mid week, so I am aiming to do re-install next week end all being well.

Any more advice & comments in the meanwhile would be appreciated, and Many Thanks for all your input so far.

------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[lamier]

You may be having a couple problems. One thing I'd highly suggest is going into safe mode and looking at the device manager. When you get there, what you're looking for is Ghost drivers (When a device is listed more than once) and devices that don't exist. If you find any ghost drivers, remove every entry for the repeated drive. If you find devices that don't exist physically, remove them from the device manager.
Another thing you might want to look into is getting your chipset updated (That's what that SiS driver is for). Background info: Your chipset is the physical chip on your computer that controls the flow of information, if you have an outdated driver for it, you could be having a flow problem. www.bmdrivers.com (http://www.bmdrivers.com) is a great place to find the most up to date drivers.
You said win95? Try checking for McAffee, sometimes McAffee will interfere with CD Mastering software like DirectCD, and cause both drives to dissapear.
Just a few suggestions. That first one sounds like what it is though. I've seen some crazy stuff from looking in safe mode for ghosts. I've seen people who had 75+ ghost and foreign drivers under the CDROM category alone! Check it out.

[Vic 970]

Thanks for the input.

The System will not run in Safe Mode: all I get is a message saying unable to access registry, & I then have to re-boot.
I have d/l regclean & run it, several times (but not every time. about 1 in 3 or 4) it has found & fixed problems, but they seem to re-occur.

Under SYSTEM DEVICES: I found 3 entries for IRQ Holder for PCI steering, 2 of which I removed, but they came back again after re-boot.
There is also a yellow question mark against other devices, plus another (when other devices is expanded) against PCI universal serial bus.
Plus of course the yellow highlighted exclamation mark against Primary IDE controller (dual fifo)

I removed McAffee some while ago, but just to be sure I did a search, and no entries were found. Also CD Direct was working OK through these problems as the CDRW was on the Secondary IDE controller. (both CDRW & CD ROM are currently removed from the system for elimination.)

I am still trying to access the site you suggest for drivers, but the system crashes at each attempt.

------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[lamier]

You can't get into safe mode? That's probably your biggest problem then. Safe mode should be the one thing that comes up the best. You might want to run a scandisk (You might have to do it from dos). Then (from dos) run Scanreg and let it scan the registry (I never trust those other reg cleaners). After that, try to get into safe mode.
You won't see ghost or foreign drivers in normal mode. Also, (my fault) Don't touch anything in the system devices section. That IRQ Steering should be in there several times. there are sometimes other things that are in there that should stay.
How are you trying to get into safe mode? There are several ways, one of the most popular is when your BIOS gets done detecting stuff, start hitting F8. Just keep tapping it untill the startup menu comes up then choose option 3 (safe mode).
Try those and tell me what happens...

[Vic 970]

I have done a full Scandisk from DOS & it reported that there were no problems. when I tried Scanreg all I got was ‘Bad command or file name’ which I also got for Help & fasthelp.

I have been accessing Safe Mode as you suggest by hitting f8 at startup and selecting option 3 (Safe Mode). After a long time the safe mode screen comes up, but with a message, QUOTE: ‘Windows encountered an error accessing the registry. You should restore the registry now & re-start your computer.
If you ignore this error & shutdown your system, you may lose data.
Restoring the registry will replace the faulty registry with a good backup copy. However this backup copy may not contain all the information recently added to your system. un/QUOTE.

The button gives an option to restore from backup & re-start. Which I did (& have done previously) The system then goes through several boot up cycles (including Scandisk) including freezing at several points, before stabalizing.
I have also previously replaced files by copying & renaming them, (earlier in this topic) but it made no difference.

My concern is that the problem may be resident. Ie. My understanding is that BIOS is resident in the CPU. Therefore re-installing windows would not correct the problem, Am I right in that assumtion ? and is there anything else resident, which a clean install would not cure ?


------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[Vic 970]

The other thing is that I seen advice on the forum ( particularly with new systems) to start with as little as possible and add stuff a bit at a time. Does this mean I should dismantle some of it ? I have sound card & modem etc.?

------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[Paleo Pete]

BIOS is actually stored in the CMOS chip, not the CPU, but it is more or less permanently stored, although it can be changed.

I can't think of any answers on this one, it's got me stumped...by now I would have given up and tried to fdisk and format the thing and start over...and I still get the feeling I've overlooked something but can't figure out what.



------------------
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[Randy_tx]

If you are determined to keep going......you can REPLACE the registry to the original registry by going to the instructions on page 83 of Appendixes in the Win95 book in which you manually replace the system.dat and user.dat utilizing the attrib command.

------------------
Wore out my Ctrl/Alt/Del keys with Win ME

[Randy_tx]

Forget my previous post......I should have read the earlier threads...you could have LL formated and reinstalled by now .....about 5 times!

------------------
Wore out my Ctrl/Alt/Del keys with Win ME

[Vic 970]

Have formatted, & attempted to set up again, But windows continually searched for drivers, even after they had been loaded, & I couldn't get sound.
Then I discovered that the builder of this PC had returned home & set up a computer bussiness locally, so I phoned & asked him for a new sound card (which I felt I had blown through wrong connection.) having replaced the card he got sound, but the PC still did not work propoerly, & he decided to take it away and set it up again.
I have just got it back, but he say's that it is beyond repair as it has been damaged by a virus. I have just done a virus check online at PCcillon (?? I think that was what it was called) but none were found (I checked some of my RW CDs as well. none were found on them either.)
Since having it up & running again I have done little with it other than to get online, but I have had a few error messages (illegal operations.)
Any Ideas ???

PS. I hope I can stay on line long enough to access replies.



------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[Randy_tx]

Two things you have posted (it's a Cyrix cpu & Win 95) bring this question...Which Cyrix chip is it and do you have Win 95 ver A or B ??? Some earlier Cyrix chips (esp. the 166+) were VERY unstable to begin with & Win 95 Ver. A has lots of problems too. Let us know these answers and maybe we can come up with something....I am beginning to think you have a faulty CPU chip in there.

------------------
"As hard as a rock & dumb as a brick"...Windows CEMeNT

[fraelorn]

Obviously this was working before, if a program has caused this or appears to have caused it then it is usually a software issue. Considering you have formatted and you still experiencing issues, you may have a hardware issue. Very doubtful, but first things first, I would try to locate some updated drivers for the devices, remove them from safe mode, then reload them in normal windows..

[Vic 970]

Windows Version 4.00.950 B.
CyrixInstead 6 x 86, 188 Mhz

Currently the system has little on it (Just Office 97) there are no problems shown in device manager & I have been to pitstop where a BIOS setting problem was detected (cache 2 dissabled) I have corrected that & returning to pitstop got a good report.

At startup I get a message before windows starts saying, 'The file SAMPLE.SYS is either missing or corrupt'

also

'There is an error in CONFIG.SYS file on line 8'

I continue to get 'Illegal operation' messages, also occasionally 'Fatal Exeption' etc. messages.

PS. I also did an anti virus check with pitstop, which found nothing.



[This message has been edited by Vic 970 (edited 03-03-2001).]

[mjc]

Run sysedit (from the run box) and open up config.sys and see what line 8 says. The first line is line one and just count down to 8 from there. If it is trying to load a driver ir a program the that could be the source of some of your errrors. Type rem in front of the offending line save and reboot. See what happens then, you may not need that line but if you do can boot into safe mode and undo the rem and post back with that line and we'll try to figure out what it should be.

------------------
mjc
To ME or NOT to ME....

[Vic 970]

Doesn't seem to be a line 8. Below is what I've copied & pasted from Config.sys
--------------------------

REM [Header]
DOS=HIGH,UMB





device=c:\sample.sys

REM [SCSI Controllers]

REM [CD-ROM Drive]

REM [Display]

REM [Sound, MIDI, or Video Capture Card]

REM [Mouse]

REM [Miscellaneous]

---------------------------------
That's exactly as it was, I haven't changed anything.


------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[Vic 970]

Config.sys is as follows,
-----------------------------------

REM [Header]
DOS=HIGH,UMB





device=c:\sample.sys

REM [SCSI Controllers]

REM [CD-ROM Drive]

REM [Display]

REM [Sound, MIDI, or Video Capture Card]

REM [Mouse]

REM [Miscellaneous]
------------------------------------------
I have just copied & pasted it in, I have made no changes to it.


------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[bassman]

OK Vic,
Hang in there.I think we are getting close. I want to start at the very begining as this is starting to spread out like an oil slick. This started while useing IPhoto plus. Pete said he never had a problem with it but I have. It was conflicting with another prog. I had so I got rid of the other as I didn't use it. May or maynot be relevant to your problem, just a statement of experiance. Removing various programs may not get rid of your problems. If they caused REG. problems, those are still there. If your problem IS software, then reformatting and reinstalling will fix it if your proceedure is complete and correct. It sounds like you have the skills to do this, but may be missing some important details.
As for your PC builder telling you "it's beyond repair due to a virus" ????? I dont think I would take it back to him again. I am not the most knowlageable on this forum but I am a good observer. This thread has been going on since mid January and I'm sure you are about homicidel by now. I think it's time for a complete Fdisk, Formatt, OS install. I have seen posts here discussing insured virus removal with the format proceedure and strongly recommend you do this now!
I do not want to give any advice at this point that might overlook even the slightest detail because I want to see your machine fixed.
Pete? Randy? MJC?

Stay focused, be strong. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

------------------
If your not living on the edge, your taking up to much space!

[Vic 970]

Hi Bassman,
Firstly let me thank you for your interest, (& sympathy) The PC builder first of all told me that it was the motherboard, and he replaced this but to no avail. (and has since put the old one back)
I believe the 'virus' story is just an excuse that he can't fix it. BUT just in case, I can't even contemplate (as a last resort) getting another PC (or borrowing one) as all my data is stored on CD's which would presumably be infected as well.
As I have said previously I have checked these on a couple of sites, which reported them clean (the hard drive as well.) so I am fairly convinced that the problem is other than this.

But back to the problem.
I was using iPhoto Plus for some time before the problem occurred, so it may have been co-incidence, or (bearing in mind your remarks.) could be that I have loaded another program which conflicted with it. However there is little in the machine at the moment only Office 97 & Publisher 98.
I only put Publisher 98 in yesterday as I needed to access some data from a CD. & tried several times to run it without success, then it worked fine after a re-boot without intervention.
A new message that I have recieved (when trying to print) is 'Colour adjustment methods will not be available' and if I click cancel 'You do not have enough free memory to use BJ Series Printer Driver' however if I click OK. the docs print OK. (in black. I haven't tried the colour cartridge in.) but I think this is a symptom rather than a cause.

As for my experience, well I'm no expert, and had very little experience of DOS. But with the help of you GREAT people, I am learning all the time, and not afraid to tackle the problem.

I only formatted the hard drive, I did not F disk it, the PC builder said that he did (but I don't know if he did or not)

I'm ready to have another go, I'm in your hands for advice.

------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[bassman]

Good morning Vic
I just read thru this whole thing again to make sure I am not repeating anything.
I am not trying to insult you by any means so I hope you don't take anything I say next that way.
Back in the middle of this thread (2-1-01), Pete posted 4 good links for you to read and work from. I recommend you go back and check them out.
From reading your last post I believe you are not following proceedure and therefore are not getting everything removed and installed correctly.
If I am not mistaken, the only thing on your HD right now is Win95, Office97, and Publisher98. Hit "ctrl, alt, del" at the same time ONE time and see what is listed. You should only have "Explorer, systray, and what ever program you are useing to be on the internet". Write down all that is there and post back.
In order for ANY of this advice to work we must have a completely clean slate to work on. Your Win98 bootdisk must be made from a clean unused brand new floppy disk. It must be made on a clean uninfected machine (your friend?) and do not load any of your storage disks until we can check further.
After a clean Fdisk, Format(includeing cdrom drivers) and OS install, only put in what you need to get back here. If it is software, then it should be fixed. If it is hardware then we now know. If your HD is damaged due to overworking because of virus or just old, we can now test it.
Remember, a virus is a program made from writen code and can be erased like any other. Some are harder to find so following instuctions to the letter is very important right now.
Get back as soon as you can with the ctrl, alt,del info BEFORE you wipe everthing out though as this may help us help you. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
If your not living on the edge, your taking up to much space!

[Randy_tx]

You posted that you had a Cyrix 188 and win95-B.......There IS NO SUCH THING AS A CYRIX 188!!!!.....If that is what it shows at post up, then your motherboard is OVERCLOCKED and I promise a source of problems for sure.
I know it might be difficult to do, but you probably need to (or have someone) take off the cpu fan and actually LOOK at the cpu to determine which one it is.

------------------
"As hard as a rock & dumb as a brick"...Windows CEMeNT

[Vic 970]

Hi Bassman & Randy_tx
Firstly let me say that I am not at all insulted, to put your mind at rest.
I did check out the links suggested, (exept 'How to F Disk a hard drive'. as the link came up as unavailable. but I have got 'Hard Disk Partioning & Formatting Procedure') in fact I have downloaded so much info on the subject that I have a pile of papers nearly 50mm deep. and read them enough times to make my head spin, with this confusion (& probably cold feet at the last minute) I decided to do just a format first to see what happened. with the intention of an F disk & format if it didn't work. But the intervention of a blown sound card & the return of the pc builder, prevented that from happening.
Also I am not going to rush into anything yet, as if I wipe it & don't get it back, I will lose your valuable assistance, Anyway to the facts,,

Running at the moment,,,
Pc Disscussion Guide
Explorer
Microsoft Office Shortcut Bar
Rnaapp
Loadwc
Findfast
Osa
Systray
-----------------------------------------
As for the comment on the CPU. Pitstop reports it as 'Cyrix 6x86 188 Mhz'

& on boot up. On the (2nd) startup screen states.,,
'CPU type 6x86MX CPU clock PR233

I can take out the CPU & check whats on it if required.


------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[This message has been edited by Vic 970 (edited 03-05-2001).]

[tjaymadison]

Probably somewhat of an aside, but that list seems like quite a load for a Cyrix. Especially the Office Shortcut Bar and FindFast, which are quite well known as "memory hogs".

[mjc]

I thought I remembered something about sample.sys (line 8 if you count those blank lines http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ). It isn't really your cd-rom driver it is a place holder for it that should have been changed during the install but due to a bad edit wasn't. So if you know the name for the driver then you could manually edit it to the real name. Or you can try and find the DOS driver for the CD on the manufacturers Web site. Once you have the proper DOs driver then hopefully Windows will realize that there is a CD on the system.

------------------
mjc
To ME or NOT to ME....

[This message has been edited by mjc (edited 03-06-2001).]

[Paleo Pete]

A couple things...

The Cyrix PR+233 runs at 188MHz. This PC Magazine (http://www.zdnet.com/pcmag/features/jit/m2/m2s2.htm) article came up in a search for the CPU. The Cyrix got pretty good reviews, but sometimes was flaky. I've tried to run win98 on 2 or 3 of them in computers for my family, all had problems. Usually win95 does much better. With win3.x it runs perfect.

The original post referred to an invalid page fault. Since this thread started I've found info convincing me those are very often related to bad memory. I guess if I'd left my old board in this machine I could have proven it, but I changed board and memory, because I wanted to go with a bit faster CPU as well. Illegal operations and invalid page faults are a thing of the past...I wish I had left the old board in though, to prove it, but I always liked this one better.

Fatal Exception errors (http://www.jimspc.net/downloads/fatal.htm)
More (http://www.bestweb.net/~wolf21/gpf.htm)
and more (http://members.bellatlantic.net/~mrscary/syndrome.htm)

Looked at the config.sys file you posted. The only thing there that makes any sense is DOS=HIGH,UMB. the rest should be ignored, with REM in front of each line, that makes them just comments. But then we have
device=sample.sys.
HUH? What is that? No driver I've ever seen is called sample.sys.

The Office Shortcut bar and Find Fast can both be removed from the Start Up folder, both are essentially a waste of resources for the average home user. Useful for office systems that use Office applications frequently and have to open many different files on a regular basis, but for you and me, get rid of it.

I agree with bassman, a complete fdisk, format and reinstall may be in order.

The "How to Fdisk a Hard Drive" link does not work any more, I don't know what happened to it, but no biggie, it was basically redundant anyway. The other links have plenty info.

------------------
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[Randy_tx]

The information on the Cyrix is correct ( a Cyrix PR-233 is ACTUALLY a 188 mhz chip..I knew something was fishy re: Cyrix 188 http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) .... I have NEVER gotten a Cyrix to run Win 98 First Edition and a bit better luck with a PR300 running Win 98 SE.....so the cpu is possibly the problem IF you are trying to load Win 98 on the machine.

------------------
"As hard as a rock & dumb as a brick"...Windows CEMeNT

[Randy_tx]

Woops.....I see you are installing Win 95 ......sorry.

------------------
"As hard as a rock & dumb as a brick"...Windows CEMeNT

[bassman]

Pete, Randy, MJC,
BY NO MEANS DO I WANT TO STEP ON YOUR TOES. We have had a few hassels here lately and I don't want to start that again. You have made some VERY valid points to this problem but lets remember this was a fully functioning machine for over 2 years. I am assumeing that all the info Vic is giving us is correct and for the most part complete?!? Is it possible that the points you have brought up could surface after a time and cause these problems? IMO this is not a CDrom or memory problem, but these are symptoms of another problem.
Slap me if I am out of line http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif

------------------
If your not living on the edge, your taking up to much space!

[Randy_tx]

Trust me http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif....you are not stepping on any toes!!!...I just think that at about 2 years of pretty good use, he might have a cpu failing. But it could be ANY # of other things as well....no way to know (at least by me) given what I have READ so far.

------------------
"As hard as a rock & dumb as a brick"...Windows CEMeNT

[mjc]

Pete,

I thought the same thing about sample.sys and then remembered reading something about it and it turns out it should be the DOS mode Cd driver but it doesn't get renamed due to a bad setup file for the driver. The thing is it seemed to be a problem confined to OEM installation disks and NOT the MS disks.....

Bassman,

What do think ascendant master geek means, I'm not there yet so step all you want(and we'll meet in the middle) http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif At this point I'm ready to suggest he go get a rubber chicken and some candles..........(old Dilbert,I think).

Vic,

Let's see if I've got this right, basic order of things:

1. Crash
2. Uninstall CleanSweep etc
3. Ref to something not there error
4. Fix that
5. All drives go flaky
6. Try to fix that
7. Reinstall Win95b
8. Still no CD


------------------
mjc
To ME or NOT to ME....

[Vic 970]

Correct up to number 8. BOTH Cd Rom & CDRW are now working.

And since playing about today EVERYTHING seems as it should be. Exept the Message at Startup about 'Missing or corrupted SAMPLE.SYS' & 'Error in CONFIG.SYS file on line 8' under which it states C:/>REM (Header)

which is in fact line 1. of CONFIG.SYS file.

Now I am getting the 'Illegal Operation' message pretty randomly, but it seems to appear after the PC's been running for an hour or so, sometimes on the internet, sometimes on starting windows (from boot) but most often in Publisher 98. which I have uninstalled & re-installed (even tried 2 seperate discs)
If I do a WARM re-boot I get the 'Illegal Operation' message as soon as Publisher starts, But, if I switch off & re-boot from COLD, Publisher runs OK.
I have looked at the links suggested above, and 1 of them suggests that the 'Fatal Exeption' message (which I get, as well as the illegal operation) could be due to worn out memory.
The PC has been used for about 6 hours a day for 2 years (& switched off in between) during which I recon the memory has been busy due to the ammount & type of work that I have done. So I would not be surprised if the memory, the CPU or otherwise were worn out. However it does not explain the remarks at startup.
By the way, I have created a temporary 'NON Startup' folder into which I have put Office & Findfast so that all I have running now is...,

Explorer
Loadwc
Systray

I'm actually getting optimistic about this now, thanks to all your input.

-PS. The mag report on the Cyrix gives it an impressive rating, I was quite surprised.
-----------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[This message has been edited by Vic 970 (edited 03-06-2001).]

[mjc]

REM is a line specific command (only works for tha particular line) so each line you want to do with out needs a rem in front of it. If you rem the line that says device=c:\sample.sys in config it should get rid of the error.

As for the other errors hold tight on those for the moment and we'll try to figure something out.

------------------
mjc
To ME or NOT to ME....

[Paleo Pete]

Well, looks like maybe we're making some sort of progress...

bassman: don't worry much about "stepping on people's toes", most of the folks here aren't hard to get along with, don't hold grudges, and looks like they realize you have some valid points, and nobody has taken offense so far. But I do think we have a very possible memory problem here.

mjc: I realized after posting yesterday what the sample.sys was, and wasn't able to go back and change anything. I think you have that part pegged. It needs to be REM'ed out and the driver installation tried again.

Vic: If you can get your hands on known good memory, try it. I don't think it's a CPU problem, although that is possible. The Cyrix should handle win95. REM out the sample.sys line in config.sys and try and install the drivers again. If necessary download drivers from the net, unzip the file and try that one.

Everyone: Thanks for hanging in there on this one, it's been nagging all of us for a while. Let's please try not to let tempers flare, I think we're finally getting close.

------------------
Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

Computer Information Links (http://www.geocities.com/paleopete/)

[Vic 970]

Got some memory from local PC shop. but it's obviously not compatable, (its PC 100 whereas mine is PC 66. but he said it should work ok ) I shall take it back tommorrow.

But the funny thing is that the pc has worked ok since removing & replacing the old memory card. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif oh I've had a few little problems as I loaded up some extra programs, but I got through most of those as they occurred. (I have not been able to load either Norton antivirus(freezes) or Command antivirus (Fatal exeption followed by registry problem) yet I've had command running previously for about 6 months.

But the pc has run all weekend with very little problem. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif could it have been a bad contact on the memory card pin ? Anyway its working, (so far) & although its early days yet, I'm very happy. I will continue to load some more stuff (& particularly sort out the anti virus !) & see how it goes.

By the way I have REM'd out the lines as you suggested, which got rid of the messages on the start screen, but I have a line now which reads
C:\ [header] which is the first line in autoexec.bat (its also the first line of config.sys but I,ve ascertained that it is autoexec.bat) I've tried to remove it without success, but as it is no harm I'm not really bothered.

Many Thanks to you all, for all the input as I had all but given up hope, & I have learned a lot in the process too. I wouldn't have done it without you.

------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[This message has been edited by Vic 970 (edited 03-11-2001).]

[Vic 970]

Spoke to soon !!! went again the day after the last message.

Couldn't get any SD ram (which is in at the moment) but (with the help of the guy at the local computer shop) we put in 64 Mb EDO ram. It ran faster, but crashed faster. It lasted 10 minutes at a time, whereas previously with the 32 Mb it lasted just over an hour.

Now we think that the processor (Cyrix 233) is over heating. We have done a search through his shop and it appears that only a P75 would fit. So if we tried that & it worked (albeit slower) we would be looking at a new case, motherboard & processor, which I feel would not be cost effective & better to put the money towards a new system.

However he did suggest slowing down the processor slightly to reduce the problem, during the interim period until I can replace the system.
What do you think ? & how do I slow down the processor ?

PS. The system is now back as it was ie; 32 Mb SD ram.

------------------
Regards..,
Vic.

[Vic 970]

Hi.
Just thought you'd like to know that its working ok. have clocked the cpu down to 66 mhz & all seems to be fine. a little slower but only in some of the big progs, so its not a problem,

Thanks again guys.

------------------
Regards..,
Vic.