Booting/Shut down issues

[harken]

Today I installed the Norton Security Suite (comes no cost with Comcast). Did not have any previous antivirus/software firewalls on the system. All seemed to be going well until it was defragging my drives. The system froze up when it was scanning the E: partition. I powered it down and tried to re-boot. Upon reboot, it initially hung in the post sequence. I had to try a number of times before it would actually go through the entire sequence such that I could get it into safe mode. Even then, it took me a number of tries before it would actually boot into windows in safe mode and not lock up when it got there. Was finally able to get to system restore and went back to before the norton install. When it started to power down, the system hung and I got a constant tone from the computer (no beeps, just a constant tone). Back to powering it down, and back up whenever it hung in the boot sequence. Finally got back to safe mode, repeated system restore, this time all was well and it rebooted fine. Figured I didn't want to try Norton again, so I downloaded MSE and installed it. It got about 3 minutes into scanning the C: partition, when it froze the system up. Went through the same problems (see above) trying to get it rebooted to restore it back to pre Norton or MSE. This time, a couple of times, it wouldn't even get to the post phase. Would turn it on, green light would come on and nothing would happen. Unplugged it and left it alone for 1/2 hr, came back, and was able to get back into safe mode to restore it to an earlier time. Anyone have any ideas why this occurred. Everything seems to be fine now, was able to defrag without incident and system will now reboot fine. Does this sound like hardware going south, or just a glitch with Norton?

Thanks for any advice.

[harken]

Spoke too soon, tried start> turn off computer>shut down. When it shut down, the constant tone started again, had to unplug it and wait before it would again reboot. Put in my windows disk prior to rebooting so I could go to the recovery console and see if I could solve any problems using that path. Even though my first boot path is through the onboard CD, it simply bypassed the CD and booted off the HD. CD player has been acting flaky lately, not always seeing the disk, etc. Could it be the root of the problems?

[Paul Komski]

I would have suggested a live linux CD to check out the hardware side if the optical drive was not in anyway suspect. At least replacement drives are not expensive items any more.

If the PC continues to make funny tones/sounds then maybe try a barebonesboot (http://www.paulski.com/zpages.php?id=1718) to help identify a culprit - notably the HDD since your issue started during a defrag.

If there is a floppy drive you could see if the HDD was accessible/faulty with its maker's diagnostics or with a utility such as BiNG (in my sig).

[Sylvander]

1. "All seemed to be going well until it was defragging my drives. The system froze up when it was scanning the E: partition"
You could try the following method [of defrag] that I use, and works really well for me.
Which partition file system was/is in use on E:?

Defragged & restored C: in 12 min using SyncBack in BoxPup (http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=67809).

It's also easy to use "X File Explorer" [Xfe]->[to backup/copy and/or restore] rather than SyncBack, but I'm confident that SyncBack works well on NTFS partitions, whereas not absolutely sure that Xfe works perfectly with NTFS, because I don't use any NTFS.
Xfe certainly has worked well on FAT32, and ext2, ext3 [Linux] partitions.

Because SyncBack is a Windows prog, it must be run under WINE, whereas because Xfe is a Linux prog, it works normally within the Puppy.
Xfe isn't natively included, except in certain Pupplets like Muppy-008.4c, so may need to be installed, which is REALLY EASY to do.

In the process of using a Puppy you will soon discover whether your hardware is working OK or not.

2. You can also do other things with a Puppy, like:
(a) Use GParted to scan/fix the various partition file systems.

(b) Scan the [Windows whilst dormant?] partitions for infections.

(c) Run GSmartControl [on a chosen (internal?) HDD] to see if it passes the tests.

(d) Make a rotating series of snap2 snapshot backups of the folder/file contents of partitions.
[A SUPERB prog I've begun using]
Xfe can restore these as in 1 above...
Perhaps to defrag the partition contents; you get defrag as a by-product of a restore.
I do this as a matter of routine. :)

(e) And, and, and....

[Paul Komski]

And, and, and....
,,, is it ever going to be possible to not complicate matters with a very roundabout way of defragmenting a partition when the action of defragmenting (as outlined in the OP) was coincidental to a freeze.

In the process of using a Puppy you will soon discover whether your hardware is working OK or not.Maybe once it can be established if it is possible to boot to a CD.

I suggest that troubleshooting suggestions at this stage are best restricted to trying to determine whether the problems (freezing, noises and inability to boot to a CD) are hardware, file-system or software in nature. I tend to favour the former of the three at this point in time.

[Sylvander]

1. "Upon reboot, it initially hung in the post sequence. I had to try a number of times before it would actually go through the entire sequence"
And...
"This time, a couple of times, it wouldn't even get to the post phase. Would turn it on, green light would come on and nothing would happen"
And...
"Everything seems to be fine now, was able to defrag without incident and system will now reboot fine. "
And...
"Does this sound like hardware going south...?"
And...
"I tend to favour the former of the three at this point in time"
(a) What about the CMOS battery beginning to fail?
Can BIOS config settings corrupt, then restore? [To defaults?]

(b) Since the system is now no longer misbehaving...
If it were me, I'd...
Fit a known good CMOS battery...
And use a really reliable operating system [Puppy is the best I know], and wait to see if the problem re-surfaces.

[Paul Komski]

(b) Since the system is now no longer misbehaving...

Perhaps read post #2: http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showpost.php?p=446260&postcount=2

And I have yet to see a failed CMOS battery cause system noises. If the BIOS time settings are OK then the battery is very unlikely to ever be involved; time slips before most other functions.

[Sylvander]

1. "tried start> turn off computer>shut down. When it shut down, the constant tone started again"
Might that have been generated by some faulty software process?
I know I've heard various tones/beeps generated by programs.
e.g. Pudd [when it malfunctioned] within Puppy generated a sort of screeching, that then turned to WHITE/PINK NOISE no less!
I was able to avoid it by using a little software trick peculiar to Pudd.

2. "Even though my first boot path is through the onboard CD, it simply bypassed the CD and booted off the HD"
Someone at the Puppy Linux forums has a similar problem to this under discussion; no fix yet found.
Only his FDD will boot a disk; can't boot an optical or the HDD.
He thinks it due to infection.
It affects all of his 3 PC's.
We're focusing on his BIOS and its configurations, and the hardware.

[Paul Komski]

it simply bypassed the CD and booted off the HD
This is a common enough problem and usually due to a faulty/dirty optical drive or dirty/scratched/incompatible disks - (such as DIY burned disks on older hardware). Pressed retail disks (such as original installation disks) are the least problematic. SBM on a floppy can sometimes overcome this problem.

Very occasionally the BIOS resets itself or changes made were not saved by the user. When this happens one can generally tell by whether or not the changes made at the last BIOS entry have been retained.

[Sylvander]

1. "SBM on a floppy can sometimes overcome this problem"
Hey harken, are you harkening?
Here's Pauls' SBM webpage (http://paulski.com/zpages.php?id=1612).

Here's his link to the sbm.exe file (http://paulski.com/utilguides/sbm.exe) that can be run within Windows to make the SBM bootable floppy.

I earlier supplied that webpage link to the other guy in the Puppy forums. :)

[Paul Komski]

I wouldn't get over-excited about SBM. It has its place and it assumes there is an available floppy drive. It was of greater significance on older hardware and it will not make a CDROM see and boot a disk that it cannot already recognise.