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[PrntRhd]

If you think you are completely anonymous on the Internet, think again. Using a technique in the article the researchers can dial in your location within 1/2 mile (690m to those using metric distances) as a median figure.
Independent of the OS, browser, and security software.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2011/04/getting-warmer-an-ip-address-can-map-you-within-half-a-mile.ars

And I won't even go to the mobile phone location cache issues allowing extreme local targeting of ads.

[Sylvander]

Here within Puppy_Linux = Lupu-525...

If I choose to run "Menu->Internet->TOR-Browser"...
The only thing about me that any website can see...
That matches my true details...
[So far as I can tell]
Is the web-browser I'm using.
Perhaps you can confirm this?
I'm using TOR-Browser to post this reply.

I believe it's possible to find the other stuff only with HUGE expense of effort, and GREAT difficulty.

[PrntRhd]

Read the article Sylvander,
The article says the technique uses router charts and timing to find the PC location, even Puppy and Tor cannot escape detection of TCP/IP packets.
The researchers, led by Yong Wang, used a variety of statistical techniques to combine data from 163 public ping servers and 136 traceroute servers into a precise estimate of the range of possible physical locations for a particular IP address. They state that, despite the large number of data sources they need to combine, their technique is capable of real-time use, giving results in just one or two seconds in real-world applications.

Tor may mask the IP address with theirs but the connection to Tor is still fair game as packets use the Internet to get to their servers.

[FTT]

Sylvander,
You're missing the point (again). They can find your location. A bomb or a thief doesn't care what your name is. Your IP address is the same no matter how many times you 'Spam' the name Puppy or any of it's variants. Is there one post you haven't used that name in the last 2 years? An IP address doesn't care what OS nor what browser you choose, it's all about your ISP and your location. Your router can give you anonymity to the outside as to which PC is 'you' in your network, but it is still accurate up to that point.

My wonder is if those IP spoof sites could fool such technology?

[Abdussamad]

I post under my real name. If they want to track me they are free to do so.

[Sylvander]

I'm no expert.
Perhaps someone can help me understand.

QUOTE
"IP address can now pin down your location to within a half mile"
And...
"researchers from Northwestern University presented new methods for estimating the exact physical location of an IP address"

Surely, if/when I use TOR-Browser...
Only my ISP knows my IP address.
I believe the TOR software arranges that PC's used in the network do not identify who's connecting to them and who they are connecting to.

By the time I go through all of the PC's in the TOR network, and the last PC connects me to the web...
What I'm doing appears to be carried out by that last PC, with its IP address.

So if anyone out on the web is attempting to trace back to the hardware that is the originator of certain activity...
They wouldn't know the IP address of the originator.

So how can they ping it to locate its position?

[risk_reversal]

I was looking into this also Sylvander and tried Tor a while back.

From my pedestrian understanding of it, information can be acquired by way of browser, o/s, screen resolution and of course IP address.

However, IP information can also be leaked by way of Flash and the DNS used even if a proxy is used.

To my understanding, Tor will divulge browser, o/s and screen resolution. It will however mask the IP address and will not allow flash to leak your true IP address either. I believe that DNS leaks are also contained (if you use the ones provided by you ISP).

Cheers

[PrntRhd]

Only my ISP knows my IP address.
I believe the TOR software arranges that PC's used in the network do not identify who's connecting to them and who they are connecting to.
Sylvander,
Yes your local ISP knows the IP they assigned to you but they are not the only one who knows the assigned IP because it's a public Internet address.
The ISP router table saves your assigned IP and the hardware address of your PC or modem or router (whatever device faces the Internet).
Normally a tracert to your assigned IP would show your ISP's router as a hop and also your final delivery public IP.

The technique the researchers used is to analyze the timing of the routing from many backbone routers that you connected to in your routine use of the Internet. The researchers would able to combine those and find your ISP's router just from the timing. Once they find your ISP's router, they would be able to find timing for any known neighbors who connect to the same router and find distances. Your neighbors timing is similar to yours so if the distance to the neighbor is known, they can calculate your distance to the router as well.

Router tables use hardware addresses connected to IPs. You are not invisible if your hardware is communicating to another piece of hardware. Your IP can change but the networking hardware and the distance to the ISP's router is unlikely to change.
They do not need to know your specific IP, just your location.

You are correct in Tor hiding much of the details, but there are some weaknesses:
Like all current low latency anonymity networks, Tor cannot and does not attempt to protect against monitoring of traffic at the boundaries of the Tor network, i.e., the traffic entering and exiting the network. While Tor does provide protection against traffic analysis, it cannot prevent traffic confirmation (also called end-to-end correlation)

The spelling of Tor is no longer upper case, they no longer use the acronym for The Onion Routing project.

[risk_reversal]

Apologies for asking a stupid question PrntRhd but would this also be the same if one had mobile broadband ie supplied by say T-Mobile?

Cheers

[PrntRhd]

Not stupid at all, the cellular providers use radio and the nearest cell site to connect, as well as a GPS locator and some phones cache your location information. They know where you are.

Apple iPhone 4 seems to know even more:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/apr/20/iphone-tracking-prompts-privacy-fears

[risk_reversal]

PrntRhd said:...the cellular providers use radio and the nearest cell site to connect, as well as a GPS locator and some phones cache your location information. They know where you are.

Apple iPhone 4 seems to know even more:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...-privacy-fears

Thanks for the link to the iPhone article. UNREAL :eek:

One final question. you said

...the cellular providers use radio and the nearest cell site to connect, as well as a GPS locator and some phones cache your location information. They know where you are.

In the original article to which you linked broadly speaking anyone could acquire this information.

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/n...alf-a-mile.ars

Now in the case of mobile broadband is location info only available to the mobile operator itself or could the experiment carried out by the researchers from Northwestern University be done on mobile broadband, if you see what I mean.

Cheers

[PrntRhd]

The researchers would not have to do mobile broadband to find location, even law enforcement knows how to download the cache files from the mobile phones.

Such as the police in Michigan:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/34/3458.asp

[FTT]

A friend of mine bought some brand of smart phones for his family. They each got one. He was kinda annoyed at the fact that he found out, if she knew how, his wife could pinpoint his whereabouts on her phone when he'd call her. He knew how and was hoping she wouldn't figure it out... :eek:

[jlreich]

Such as the police in Michigan:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/34/3458.asp
How could they do that without a warrant or at the very least probable cause? :confused: Probably just uninformed people scared by the officer that if they don't comply they will be in big trouble. :mad: Probably get them to sign a waiver allowing it as well.

If a police officer stopped me for a traffic violation and asked me for my phone I would tell him to kiss my arse. I am no fan of the ACLU but someone has to stop them. I think that device is a great tool with proper use, but they can't just demand to download everyones phones for a traffic stop all willy nilly.

[PrntRhd]

Nothing really new about mobile phone data collection, of course Apple denies it
http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2011/04/27location_qa.html

but the folks at Apple have a 2009 patent for collecting the data. and has been doing so since iOS 3.2

[LochLomonder]

jlreich,

How could they do that without a warrant or at the very least probable cause?

In the aftermath of the SCOTUS decision in Terry v. Ohio (http://www.oyez.org/cases/1960-1969/1967/1967_67), the standard adopted by the Court was "reasonable suspicion", which is actually lower than probable cause. This was extended to traffic stops, too. The law also allows law enforcement officers to conduct investigations after the stop, but any questioning must be limited to the purpose of the stop.

I think the actions by Michigan law enforcement officers oversteps their bounds, and there's no way people should be surrendering their phones in that manner.

[PrntRhd]

They say LE is looking for terrorists in Michigan.

[Cuc Tu]

I don't believe there is anything private about my life any more.

I also believe that the Chinese government knows more about me that my own government. The probably have all of my medical and financial records, and certainly anything that is on file with the feds...they probably had my tax returns before the IRS!

To me the question is how to deal with that reality?

[jlreich]

How to deal with it? Go live in the hills without any utilities and never talk to anyone again. Of course the act of falling off the grid will probably garner more attention and you will find the feds spying on you in the woods and periodically have helicopters flying over your hut. :p

I have a family member that is very anti-government and does his best not to give any information to anyone for pretty much anything. Won't get certain services that require a SS#. When he absolutely has to he gives false info. And you know he was successful at staying off the grid for many years to the point that when he took a job that required a federal background check they said he was dead and a hundred and some odd years old. :p He had to gather all kinds of documents to take to the local federal building to prove he was who he said he was. Well, if he wasn't on the grid before, he sure is now. ;)

Lets face it, you can do what you can to keep it to a minimum, but there is no avoiding it in the long run. Setting the government aside we have entire large industries devoted to gathering info about us. And they will use every means they can to do it. Including unethical and some of them illegal means for as long as they can get away with it. Hell, sometimes it seems the government doesn't need to try anymore, all they have to do is a run a google search to find all they want to know about a certain person. :rolleyes: