Linux installation problem

[Vic 970]

I am trying to set up linux mandrake

I have

Boot Floppy
Linux 8.0 (core system)
Second Installation
Commercial applications

also

8.2 1st installation
2nd Installation
Supplimentary Applications

I have w98se & w2000 at present

I have re set my partitions (using partition Magic), leaving 5.6 Gb free space

C = W98
D = W2000
E = Programs (w2000)
F = Programs (w98se)
G = Data
H = Backups
I = Downloads

I have de fragged all drives, and scandisc

I booted from Linux Floppy with CD (8.0 Core system) in Rom.

It ran up until 'Set up File Systems) when it reported it could not configure partitions as they were too corrupt. ???????

It then asked if I wished to lose all data (Yes or Cancel) I chose cancel.

It then asked which partition I wanted to install linux on. It recognised all my partions but not the free space. I clicked cancel but nothing happened so I re booted to get out.

Have tried it twice now (before & after de frag and scan) same results each time.

Is there something I'm missing ?

------------------
for every question there's an answer. Then a load more questions.
Definition of Upgrade "A means of introducing new bugs to a program to replace the ones that you have eventually found fixes for"

Regards..,
Vic.

REVI (http://www.revi.co.uk)

[mjc]

Did you try the 8.2 install?

The CD for 8.2 is a bootable CD and it does have better partitioning support. You will need to set up two partitions in that freespace, one for the swap and one for the filesystem.

------------------
mjc
Computer Links (http://www.dreamwater.org/tech/mjc/index.htm)

Celts are the men that heaven made mad, For all their battles are merry and their songs are all sad.

[Vic 970]

the 8.0 boot disc wouldn't boot up the 8.2 so I made a new boot disc, got to the checking dma pool data screen and no further.
went back & made another new boot disc, got so far then message "boot failed"

------------------
for every question there's an answer. Then a load more questions.
Definition of Upgrade "A means of introducing new bugs to a program to replace the ones that you have eventually found fixes for"

Regards..,
Vic.

REVI (http://www.revi.co.uk)

[Vic 970]

Changed BiOS to boot from CD. Linux then went in ok.

W2000 then failed, (thought this to be just a w2000 problem so posted here http://www.pcguide.com/ubb/Forum15/HTML/001216.html ended up formating that partition & re installing.

Now all 3 op/s are working ok but can't get Partition Magic to work. error no 117 (when in windows) error no 120 (when booting from PM emergency floppy)

apparently a serious condition as I could lose partitions/data.



------------------
for every question there's an answer. Then a load more questions.
Definition of Upgrade "A means of introducing new bugs to a program to replace the ones that you have eventually found fixes for"

Regards..,
Vic.

REVI (http://www.revi.co.uk)

[setoguro]

Well I tried to get mandrake on last night and ended up in the same place as you.

message "windows 2000 root\system32\ntoskrnl.exe is either missing or corrupt. please reinstall this file"

Windows 98se will boot and I can get Mandrake 8.2 up with a boot disk but not w2k. PM sees everything. I did have the errors but PM fixed them. I'm sure I screwed up when I set up Lilo. I'm wondering if I could slide w2k back in it's partition with a new install or would it just mess up Linux. I feel like I'm in a 3 stooges flick knocking things down and wacking stuff with a long 2x4 I have on my shoulder. What did you do to get w2k to work? I've been up too long I think I'll just go crash now. :o

[Vic 970]

the problem I believe was caused by Linux bootloader overwriting windows bootloader.

I ran w2000/nt setup again using the option to format the original space and re install. which got all 3 o/s up and running.

Linux bootloader comes up first with options of

Linux
safeguard (or something)
windows
floppy

so I scroll to windows, then the windows boot loader comes up with the option

w98
w2000

but as I say PM don't work anymore.

I think the problem is 1st with the bootloader, and then the fact that PM recognises (but doesn't accept) the partition NAMES, (wich windows of course doesn't recognise)

I think what I shall do is un install Linux, hoping to get PM working again and the HDD as it was before I installed, then try setting up partitions again (using FIPS this time) re check PM & if all is well, take another good look at installation. last time it seemed to be all automated (more or less) & I may have made some of the wrong choices when I had the option.

take a look here

http://www.linuxgazette.com/issue38/veselosky.html

[setoguro]

I figured that I let Lilo over write the MBR. I'm not clear at this time on how to configure it to keep it out. That first failure really isn't a bad thing it gaves me a clearer idea of what to look for in my reading. I think I'll do about the same thing.
At least I was smart enough to write all the settings down. Here is what I have but being that I'm moving around in places that I've never been before I can't tell you the whys and what fors of it all. Only what settings I have and the choices Lilo gave me.
Lilo set up.

Lable - Linux
Image - /boot/vmlinuz (/boot/vmlinuz-2.4.18-6mdk)
root - /dev/hda5 (/dev/hda1 , a6 , a7 , a8 , a9)
append - /boot/initrd-2.4.18-6mdk.img (/boot/initrd.img)
(I have this gut feeling that these 2 settings should be reversed)
read-write left unchecked
default left unchecked

Well anyway I'm gong to have an other go at it tomorrow night. That will give me a chance to get all my ducks in order.

[mjc]

Vic & setoguro,

Putting in a DOS boot disk (Win98 would work for this) and typing fdisk_\mbr should fix the MBR and at the same time trash LILO, with the MBR overwritten with a stanard DOS one PM should then work. That should give you 98 and 2k working correctly...with linux still installed on the drive bu inaccessible, then you can repair the Linux partition from the CD, this time not allowing LILO to overwrite the MBR (I think this is done under the expert choice not the default).

[Vic 970]

can't get around to doing mine at the moment, but mjc are you saying that you think the WHOLE problem is with the MBR ?

mine is working ok albeit that I have 2, 1 for Linux & 1 for the other 2 windows o/s.

from what I've read so far, I formed the impression that

Linux NAMES it's partions based on their relative directories and their order of importance, like home directory, swop file etc. but not in any chronalogical order. whereas PM (which 'SEEs' the partitions) will not accept anything which is NOT in chronalogical order. hence there is a conflict.

I also saw evidence (I think whilst running Linux rescue disc) that Linux had named/numbered the other (windows) partitions (though windows does not see this)

Further thoughts on MBR/boot up. I think I would PREFER to only keep the windows MBR on HDD and boot up Linux from a floppy. This way if I want to boot up to windows I only need to switch on the pc, go make a coffee & when I return it will be up and running. Only difference if I want to go into Linux is that I stick the floppy in first.

So I think first step (whilst it's up & running) is to make a Linux boot Floppy, then get rid of Lilo (as you suggest) and see what happens.

it matters not at this stage if I have to un install Linux so long as I get back to the point where I have my 2 windows o/s & PM so that I have control, then try the Linux install again.

[Vic 970]

Due to losing my 'links' through an IE fault. I just ran undelete to see if I could recover them (which I didn't)

But was surprised to see one one my (7) partitions shown as FAT16.

ALL my partitions were set as FAT32. so Linux must have changed it (presumably) & I currently can't change it due to Partition Magic being unavailable. :mad:

[Vic 970]

mjc

I have done the fdisk /mbr as you suggested, it now boots to w98se/w2000 (default w98se) but Partition Magic still doesn't work (comes up with the same error) and I can't boot to linux. as the boot disk that I created on installtion is not accepted.

I have used the rescue disk to get back into installation, but at 3rd stage (hdd detection.) It tells me to make a new boot disk, but when I try nothing happens & I cannot clear the screen.

is there any way that I can clear the 'space' in DOS to get back to where I started?

[setoguro]

I think we have had the same problem. I've had a Partition Magic error 116 partition table begin and start inconsistent maybe it's not the same error as you have but I'm getting the same problems. I can get into Win 98 and W2k but not into Linux. The Linux boot disk didn't work but the rescue disk did. Fdisk/mbr didn't work either. It's too late to try making a new Linux boot disk because I threw in the towel and zeroed out the HDD with Western Digitals lifeguard Tools it worked and I'm back at again. There is a debug solution that was posted I think it zeroed the HDD but I can't find it. You can also maybe try something from here you might find something there that will fit your needs. http://www.geocities.com/thestarman3/asm/mbr/BootToolsRefs.htm

[mjc]

Does PM see the Linux partition?

What is the exact PM error?

Here is error 117:

http://www.powerquest.com/support/primus/id15.cfm

and here is error 120:

http://www.powerquest.com/support/primus/id65.cfm

Here is the solution suggested on the error 120 page:

http://www.powerquest.com/support/primus/id374.cfm

[Vic 970]

setoguru

fdisk /mbr did work for me and linux bootloader has gone, (want to get rid of the rest now (or get it to work)

mjc

pm doesn't work at all, so it see's nothing, the error messages are 'just' as stated, ie "error 117" "error 120" that's it, nothing more.

when I run the pm rescue disc it shows disc geometry errors on ALL partitions.
only other screen I get shows 1 disc (bad) 1 partition (bad) with only 1 available command ie: Format (whole disc)

I did find the fix you posted, but pm was on another partition, so I had to un-install & re-install it in C. so that I could access it in DOS.

progra~1/powerq~1

then 3 directories shown

.
..
partit~1

tried the fix with each of them, only get 'bad comand or filename'

[mjc]

progra~1/powerq~1

then 3 directories shown

.
..
partit~1

When in that partit~1 directory, issue the dir command and see if the partinfo.exe shows up.

[Vic 970]

just get 'invalid directory'

plus I have another prob... I now can't get into dos at startup, only a dos prompt in windows.

I used to get dos by pressing ctrl immediately after enter when I got the dual boot screen (w98-w2000) now it doesn't work.

[mjc]

Boot into 98 and then use msconfig to enable the startup menu...this will give you another menu to choose from, the choices will be for the qin98 startup: normal, safemode, DOS, etc...

Or try getting there from using a Win98 bootdisk...basically you are have a longfile name problem when trying to find the file. Also try searchinf for it while in 98. and copy dwon the path exactly (the first six letters followed by the ~1).

[Vic 970]

start menu sorted.


all I can find in w98 is...,

C:\Program Files\PowerQuest\PartitionMagic Pro 6.0\UTILITY\DOS\partinfo.exe

there is nothing with a ~
------------------

in dos it seems that program files converts to progra~1

Powerquest to powerq~1

Partition Magic to partit~1

am I correct ? as I had to guess them from..

C:\ dir
C:\Progra~1\dir
C:\progra~1\powerq~1\dir

[mjc]

The DOS path will be:

C:\progra~1\powerq~1\partit~1\utility\DOS\filename

with [i]filename[/] = partinfo>c:\info.txt /EPF (that whole string, it puts the output of the fix into a text file on C:\ drive called info.txt)

[Vic 970]

nope,

just got "bad comand or file name"

[mjc]

Ok, try just the partinfo, or partinfo /?, that should bring up a list of the options, if we have the path correct.

Also switch to the PM directory and do a dir_/s (s =subdirectories) or dir partinfo.* /s

[Vic 970]

sorted out the path and got the info.txt file.

no 'fix' has been done though, it just list all the hdd drive and partition info with a small ref. "probably caused by linux" (or similar) no mention of what to do or how to fix it though.

[Vic 970]

sorry to bring up an old topic, but some of us are still struggling here.

I'd like to delete Linux & start afresh, but can't get into it.

I think maybe, I'll have to reinstall the boot loader then try to delete the partitions, but that will cause probs with w2000 again.

has anyone any new ideas?

[mjc]

Basically, if it is this far gone then yes you will probably need to start from scratch. Yes, I know this isn't really something you want to hear, but you will need to reinstall everything. Start by making you partitions, then one the first install 98, and format any other FAT32 partitions, then do 2K. Finally do Linux, with the custom install option, making sure you point LILO to the Linux partition and not the MBR. there seem to be fewer problems if 2k is installed on a FAT32, but then that defeats some of 2k's features.

[setoguro]

Well vic I didn't get anywhere with the new install. After I zeroed the drive and reinstalled everything I got a Partition Magic error 105 this time Last time it was 108 and the time before that it was 116. This is really strange. I did put W2k on a fat32 partition this time so that may be the reason for the different error type. W98 and W2k boot with the W2k boot manager and I can get into Mandrake with a floppy. I'll go back tonight and check some other stuff to see what I get. I just can't understand why we get these errors.

[Vic 970]

Only guessing here, as I can't get into Mandrake.

Do you have Linux on an empty partition. ?

Did you do an 'expert' install?

Can you check/rename the Linux partitions?

[setoguro]

Ok weird strange and most bizarre. Late last night I started to fiddle around with things. I checked out fdisk to see what I could see with that and yes it could see the windows stuff. I figured I'd check out Linux next so I rebooted using the floppy I made for the install not the boot disk made during the install. What was in my mind to do it this way I don't know. But when I got started I figured what the heck I started to reinstall ( there were a few things I wanted that I didn't put in the last time). So I get to the place were you set up your Linux partitions all the old ones are there just that they are undesignated so I assign the last as home the middle as swap and the first as boot or root I can't remember now it was late (I even fell a sleep once waiting to swap out the CDs). Well I just checked everything with PM and near fell out of the chair now PM sees everything and no errors.
yea I installed expert.

[Vic 970]

well, that proves that it can be done :D

next we need to note the pointers for installation. ie:

1: use expert mode.

2: name partitions as boot, swap, home (in that order)

which partition is it on? & what (if anything) resides with it?

from my perception of things. Linux handbook recomends same partition as windows (& let it create it's own free space) I wonder if it would be better on a empty partition.

I am too reliant on my pc at the moment to zero it and start afresh, but as soon as I get the opportunity, 1st I shall try setting up linux boot again, then see if I can get into my partitions to see what's going on.
but meanwhile if we can come up with a step by step it's going to be very useful.

[setoguro]

I'll try writing up what I've done so far. I did write what I was doing down but it got out of hand because I did it over so many times so I have a lot of pages all over the place. I'm thinking I might do it all over again this weekend just to see if I can get it right again. Getting it fixed was really just dumb luck.

[Vic 970]

Know what you mean, takes me ten minutes to find my pc these days.



:D

[RKBA]

Though I've read through this entire thread, I'm not sure I fully understand everything that's been tried, but I'm going to toss in my two cents anyhow in hopes of further confusing the issue. ;)

From one of the earlier posts, I got the impression (perhaps wrongly so) that someone (Vic?) seemed to be confusing Windows "Freespace" with empty unassigned disk space. Linux doesn't know the difference between Windows space that's in use by data and windows free space (ie; anything already formatted as FAT16, FAT32, or NTFS is considered by Linux as being occupied and in use). Linux requires either empty unformatted and unpartitioned disk space, or a partition(s) formatted specifically for Linux (ie; ext2, or Linux Swapspace). In my experience, it's better to simply leave some unassigned empty disk space for Linux (not Windows Freespace - just totally unused disk space with no partition information pertaining to it whatsoever). Usually, I make a very small empty "hole" (ie; the "hole" is not part of any existing partition) near the front of one of my hard drives for the Linux Boot Partition, and then leave "holes" for the Linux ext2 partition and for the swapspace partition wherever it's convenient for me.

The Linux install program will detect these empty "holes" and offer to place the three partitions needed for Linux into them (Boot, Linux ext2 program space, and swapspace). Let it.

The CRITICAL PART of the installation is when it asks (actually it doesn't ask, it's just a form you fill in during the installation - at least for the RedHat install) something like where it should put the boot record. As MJC mentioned earlier, select the Linux Boot Partition rather than the MBR (this is assuming you want to use the Win2K NTLDR bootloader rather than the Linux LILO bootloader, although either can be used to boot into any of the OS's installed on your machine). Make sure you create a Linux BOOT DISK during the installation.

At this point (assuming you had previously installed Win98 and Win2K successfully, and left empty unassigned partition space for Linux to create it's own partitions), you should be able to select either Win98 or Win2K from the Win2K boot menu via NTLDR and BOOT.INI. You should also be able to start Linux by booting from the Linux boot disk created during installation.

Now, what you need to do is to copy the MBR from the Linux boot partition containing LILO, and place it into a disk file in the root directory of your primary boot hard drive, and then place an entry into your BOOT.INI pointing to the Linux boot sector disk image. There may be various ways of doing this, but the easiest by far in my opinion is to use a utility that runs on DOS or in a Windows DOS box called "BOOTPART (http://www.winimage.com/bootpart.htm)." It does everything for you - it copies LILO to a 512 byte file, and inserts a pointer to it into your BOOT.INI. After running BOOTPART, you should now have three items in your Win2K boot menu, and running either OS is as simple as selecting it from the menu:

1. Linux
2. Win98
3. Win2K

Here is my BOOT.INI file:
[boot loader]
timeout=5
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(2)\WIN2K
[operating systems]
C:\Bootsect.lnx="Linux"
C:\="Win98_HD1A"
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(2)\WIN2K="Win2K_HD3A" /fastdetect
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(2)partition(3)\WINNT="Win2K_HD3B" /fastdetect

(Note: In the BOOT.INI file above, "Bootsect.lnx" is the 512 byte Linux boot image created by BOOTPART from the Linux Boot Partition.)

On the other hand, if Linux is your primary OS, you can let the install program write LILO to the MBR. If you do this (and are using Linux graphical startup mode and have selected the Win98 and Win2K partitions as alternate boot devices during Linux installation), the Linux graphical boot menu will present you with the same three choices as the Win2K loader does, and will give you a few seconds to make a selection before booting to the default OS (which you also select during installation).

As always, it's best to read the documentation FIRST. You can start by reading the installation information that's in one of the directories on the Linux disk (though I forget which one offhand - it's been awhile since I've done this, so just look around till you find it.)

Best wishes for a successful second install,

-- Ron

[Vic 970]

Hi Ron,

and thanks for your input,

I wasn't confused, just not technically correct in my wording.

I started with w98se & w2000 each on their own partitions, plus other partitions for programs, data, backups etc. all working fine.
I had left one partition empty, where I proposed to install Linux Mandrake.

I obtained Linux Mandrake 8.0 with the handbook & boot disc, I also got 8.2 discs with it 'free'

I read the manual (well the install part anyway) and from it proposed to set up as recommended, so I increased the size of windows partition & created empty unassigned disk space thereon.
I put in the installation/boot disc & it would not work, I refered again to the manual & tried again. I could not get it to work.
I edited bios to boot from CD. 8.0 still did not work, but 8.2 did & took me to the installation program.
I installed Mandrake & got it to work, (though Linux mostly made the decisions not I ) I decided to leave it at that point until I had time to read the manual to learn how to use it.

The Linux boot loader came up with a choice of Linux or Windows, choosing windows I then got the option of w98se or w2000.

I then found that Partition Magic was no longer working.

It was then that my troubles began.:(

I have since re-installed w2000 & got rid of the Linux boot loader.

now I have the choice of w98se or w2000. the system is working fine (apart from PM)

Linux Mandrake is still there, although I cannot access it (exept through install, which it won't complete anyway, telling me to create a new boot disc, which it will not do) the discs that came with do not work, nor the boot discs that I made during installation.

I think my next step is to try to re-install the boot loader, in order to get into Linux and either re-name or delete the partitions, hopefully get back to where I started & try again.

it will be the end of the month before I get around to this, as I am totally reliant on the pc to get some urgent (personal) work done.

meanwhile if you can come up with any suggestions, I would be most grateful.

[RKBA]

Hi Vic,

What's confusing me, is where you said "so I increased the size of windows partition & created empty unassigned disk space thereon." Was that a typo, and you really meant that you had decreased the size of the windows partition in order to create empty unassigned disk space? It's a minor but very important point - you cannot create "empty unassigned disk space" on a windows partition. If there is freespace on a windows partition, both windows and partition magic will report it as "Freespace", but it isn't free as far as Linux is concerned, because it is assigned to Windows and formatted for the windows filesystem. What Linux needs for its installation is totally unformatted and unpartitioned disk space. The disk space you reserve for the Linux install should not be partitioned as anything - not FAT16, FAT32, nor NTFS. In fact, the free disk space I'm talking about isn't part of any partition. If I recall correctly, Partition Magic shows it as "*unassigned."

For example, let's say you have a 100 MB hard drive formatted for Windows, and you want to reserve 50 MB for Linux. You would shrink the Windows partition to 50 MB, leaving 50 MB totally empty, unpartitioned, unassigned disk space. If you were to use fdisk to check the partions on that disk, fdisk would report one partion of 50 MB, and nothing more (even though in fact the hard drive has a capacity of 100 MB).

When you run the Linux install, it will detect that unpartitioned space on your hard drive, and create its own partitions there.

Sorry for belaboring the point, but as I said it's very important to understand the difference between free "Windows" disk space, and totally empty unpartitioned disk space.

Regards,

-- Ron

[Vic 970]

sorry for the confusion. you are quite right.

initially I moved and resized all my partitions, to get them in the size and order that I wanted them.

Finally, having done that (and got everything where I wanted it) I decreased windows partition thereby creating unassigned space.