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kenja
07-15-2001, 05:14 PM
huge pat on the back for not helping to feed the trolls, so I'll reward myself by making this post.] http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

From "Mastering Active Directory" by Robert R. King: I tend to agree with my father, who always said, "An expert is just someone from over five miles away who carries a briefcase."

spaceAlien
07-15-2001, 06:48 PM
I'll pat you on the back if you pat me on the back !!


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HEY YOU -- MODERATOR -- CHANGE MY STATUS TO "HECKLER"

skhips
07-15-2001, 06:52 PM
Always be weary of a pat on the back as it can be a recce for a knife in the back....

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

sea69
07-15-2001, 07:02 PM
http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif and a FACT is anything you can get everyone to believe!

ie- "the world is flat", ....we went to the moon, etc.

(file under "useless")

lol


http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)


[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 07-15-2001).]

ranchdog
07-15-2001, 09:05 PM
Pats MUST be above the belt...... http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif

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"Lemmee Fix That Thing......."
-Beauty is only a light switch away.-

darm
07-20-2001, 11:36 AM
Re: Definition of expert.

X: Being the Unknown Quantity
Spert: A Drip Under Pressure.

Hey Sea, How do you know man went to the moon, were you there? Did you not see that Documentary saying that the Moon Landings were a hoax.

If America went to the Moon in 1969, why has no one else gone there since? (ie. The Russians) http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/cool.gif

Ghost_Hacker
07-20-2001, 12:09 PM
If America went to the Moon in 1969, why has no one else gone there since? (ie. The Russians)


Because few remember second place http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif.... Have heard that the Chinese and possibly the Japanese are planning to go. The moon just isn't as exciting as it was 40 years ago and I doubt we could build the massive rockets needed to take you there today.



------------------
Comment heard from a Klingon programmer.

"Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!"

sea69
07-20-2001, 01:06 PM
if you read it more closely, I am stating that the "fact" of us going to the moon was similiar to the "fact" that the world is flat, in the context of my opening statement to the effect that a fact is anything that you can get everyone to believe.

so we are in agreement.



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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)


;)~

darm
07-20-2001, 01:59 PM
Sea: I stand corrected

Ghost: I have heard the the Japanese are sending a craft to take close up photos of the lunar surface in two years time.
Can't wait to see the results http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

jinn
07-20-2001, 06:36 PM
We have NEVER been to the moon. It was all a ruse to explain where all the funded money went. I firmly believe this and welcome any comers that think otherwise (In a FRIENDLY argument) Too many other Nations have said that it's simply not possible, among other weird things that have been said to make me think otherwise. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif

[This message has been edited by jinn (edited 07-20-2001).]

darm
07-21-2001, 09:47 AM
jinn: I must agree with you I don't think man has been to the moon at all.

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

sea69
07-21-2001, 09:52 AM
http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

well when I saw from NASA's own footage the American flag waving in the wind that was enough for me!!

(there is NO wind on the moon... there is no AIR!!)

lmao

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)


;)~

darm
07-22-2001, 11:39 AM
Also I understand that there is an 'open day' for kids to point the Hubble Telescope anywhere they want, but when one kid asked to see the moon he was refused. Why?

Ghost_Hacker
07-23-2001, 01:40 PM
I hate to point this out guys, but science doesn't care about what people "belive". Science cares only about events that can be proven.

Somepeople think that man and the dinosaures roamed the earth at the same time. Somepeople think that evolution is wrong and that man was created just 5000 years ago. There isn't anything wrong in beliving that,but these are "beliefs" not "facts". On the other hand evolution can not be proven which is why in science it is a theory only ( it is "belived" to be correct) and not a fact.


Goverments may try to turn belief into fact but science refuses to do so.
I will not try to change what you belive because there is no right or wrong in a person's beliefs. However, I await any "person of science" to put forth a theory and prove it of why we did not walk on the moon.


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Comment heard from a Klingon programmer.

"Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!"



[This message has been edited by Ghost_Hacker (edited 07-23-2001).]

sea69
07-23-2001, 01:58 PM
whew!! glad we are back up here!!

GH, I agree with what you have posted.. however- could you please point me to where "persons of science" have proven that we have gone there??

lol

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)




[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 07-23-2001).]

nimnorf2
07-23-2001, 02:12 PM
Ah now finally a subject that I can wax about. See my frustration with this whole site is that it has to do with computers mostly, and, well, I know diddly about computers, but when we are given to bring up a discussion on reason and faith/belief, hah, I've got this 10 page paper I just wrote in my history of philosophy class as part of my Masters in Theology and....
We can't "prove" that yesterday happened. We can only provide evidence that it did. It's called "historical/legal proof. It's the system we use to find people guilty or innocent of the charges in a court of law. Some in the past (the Sophists for example) and many today are using this argument that "since we never really know anything for sure, lets just wander around like idiots with no guidance at all." Foolishness under the guise of some logic. We can't live that way.
We need to live like we do "know" some things.
Healthy scepticism is just that. Questioning everything would be wearisome and often unwarranted.
Did "we" land on the moon and walk on it. Yeah, I think/reason so, therefore, believe/faith that we did. The evidence is pretty good and substantial, and the doubts to the contrary are overwhelmed in my thinking by the evidence.
Pete, I'm sorry. I'll never do this again. I'll look and see if the previous poster s left their email addresses and we'll go about our philosophical discussion there. I promise.

Jinn and Darm lets take this off the forum and go through personal email. Mine is above. I'll enjoy talking this stuff with you both. Ghost and Sea
your time is too valuable on fixing people's computer problems for you to bother with this stuff. I'll give you both a complete update of my "time" with Jinn and Darm if you ask for it. OOO OOO can't wait! lol


[This message has been edited by nimnorf2 (edited 07-23-2001).]

Ghost_Hacker
07-23-2001, 02:34 PM
For me the evidence is everywhere from the rocks brought back ,from the folks who died during the "moon race", from the act of watching the astronauts as they orbited the earth and landed on the moon , and of the advances in science and consumer products brought about by the moon program. For me this is more than enough, but you'll have to draw your own conclusions. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif



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Comment heard from a Klingon programmer.

"Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!"

Randy_tx
07-23-2001, 03:34 PM
I find it interesting that the greatest number of folks who DONT think/believe/have faith etc in our landing a man on the moon.....live in other nations.........it wouldn't be jealousy would it??????

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Will XP save Me ?

Ghel
07-23-2001, 03:55 PM
For those who actually believe that NASA could manage to fake the moon landings and keep it under wraps, here is a few links with point-by-point rebuttals. One of these is worded a bit harshly, but they convey the point.
http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html

iisbob
07-23-2001, 06:30 PM
To answer the " flag waving" point; yes there is ind on the moon!? HUh?! you say, ther is no atmoshpere, how can there be wind?!!

Simple my friend, ever heard of solar particles? they produce a " wind" that in affect acts upon objects just as a physical atmoshperic current would; and since there is no " air " on the moon to impede it-the flag is pushed by these particles. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif


As for not believeing in " facts ", the hardest one i've yet to swallow is the one that goes; for the people, by the people- http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

You probably won't hear from me again after the CIA gets through scanning this site!? Been nice knowing you all. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/eek.gif

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iisbob
"Soap and education are not as sudden as a massacre, but they are more deadly in the long run."

Ghost_Hacker
07-23-2001, 07:32 PM
This post's new topic got me to thinking.
What ever happened to our manned space program?
Where are the rotating space stations and moon bases science fiction promised us would be operational by 1999?
Why are we still using the space shuttle? (A 30 year old design)

The (IMHO) sad state of our manned program has created a situation where people can actually start to question if we did anything "great" at all. Sure we send probes to Venus, Mars and the outer planets, but we've been doing that for 30 years now. It doesn't even rate first page news anymore.

Are there any little kids who want to be astronauts when they grow up ? Do kids even know what an astronaut is? Or have we replaced real space exploration "heros" with Star Wars/Star Trek charters?

Hmmmmm..........

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Comment heard from a Klingon programmer.

"Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!"



[This message has been edited by Ghost_Hacker (edited 07-23-2001).]

Bailey
07-23-2001, 07:48 PM
They are building the new international space station as we speak. A massive project.

Space station info. (http://spaceflight.nasa.gov/station/)

More info. (http://www.shuttlepresskit.com/ISS_OVR/)

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"Ooooh, They have the
internet on computers now!" - Homer Simpson (http://asf.allwavs.com/wav4/Simpsons/inetcptr.wav)

sea69
07-23-2001, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by sea69:
http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif and a FACT is anything you can get everyone to believe!

ie- "the world is flat", ....we went to the moon, etc.

(file under "useless")

lol


http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif




why, oh why did I start this??

hehe

good points GH, I guess we shouldn't all go by Fox re-runs either.

who are todays heros ??

ask a kid, those of you that have some probably can answer this.. I sure can't.

not like when I was 5 years old and it was superman, herculees, and Captain Tug..lol

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)


[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 07-23-2001).]

geebee76
07-23-2001, 08:12 PM
Keep it up guys! this is better than the SETI forum http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

For what it's worth, the moon landing has never really been questioned over here.

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I used to have a split personality but I'm better now
(and so am I) !!

geebee76@hotmail.com

bassvax
07-23-2001, 08:46 PM
I can't remember the names of the fellas, but good ole Art Bell had a couple of 'em goin toe to toe over the moon topic and actually the Fox show that Sea is referring to. I listened to a bit of it. I believe some folks are just more adept at relating the facts than others. I mean the same data from stuff like polls, surveys and even selective historical events (or more precisely...the selective reports of historical events) can be used by both sides to shore up their arguements.

I consider myself a fairly skeptical thinker and I don't have any reason to doubt the moon landing...we have a feller here at work that adamantly refutes the landing (not a fact provider, but just an old-school pentacostal) and this is way before the show aired on Fox.

Now.....No flaming here.....I consider myself agnostic in belief (or lack thereof...however you see it), being raised Southern Baptist from birth to 17 yrs of age, deep in the church activities etc....since my new education, serving in the US Army for 8 years, I drastically changed my views about religion and a lot of other stuff. Anyways, I tell you this to say that I enjoy discussing religion with folks around here....especially when talking about Dinosaurs, Evolution, Science and other stuff, covered or not, in the bible. My son once asked me if I thought there were aliens...I said I didn't know, but I think folks that outright deny the possibility of alien existence are very naive and closed-minded....perfect example is...If G-D is all powerful...what is to say the he/she/? did not create other worlds and beings?

OK I'll stop....

Maybe there are not pressing reasons for another trip to the moon because we're are focused on space beyond the moon. I think we could maybe benefit by placing radio devices or other equipment on the "Dark Side Of The Moon" (just for you Kayden http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif )

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Flush 'N' Forget
FE Stokes WWTP (http://www2.apex.net/users/hwuswtp)

nimnorf2
07-24-2001, 11:43 AM
Where's Techinfinity when we need him? He would have known the "real" answer to these concerns. he he

sea69
07-24-2001, 12:37 PM
LoL!

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif



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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)


;)~

kayofcircles
07-24-2001, 12:43 PM
You KNOW I can't NOT say something here..even if thread is already too long. I agree with Ghost: where is our program now??? I really believe that if we don't get off this planet, our species is doomed. There are days after watching the national news that I think maybe "doomed" is a good thing, but I want to live to see humans on Mars, or will settle for a Moon colony. I think we did go to the Moon, but somewhere in the last decades lost our "pioneer" instinct. When it comes to allocating resources, there are many voices saying that only the problems here and now are important.

Saw "Wolf" with Nicholson recently. He was at a cocktail party in the movie, and someone said they had read a book about the "fall" of our civilization. Jack Nicholson replied with something like "There is evidence to believe that it has already fallen. Look at the talk shows, and the current best sellers, and any number of other places. You will see decline and decay." Anyone here turned on daytime television lately?

BigBlue66
07-24-2001, 03:15 PM
iisbob Absolutely fantastic observation about the solar particles! I'm impressed. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

nimnorf2 Good one! hehehehe

Guess I had better add my two cents here. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

First of all, I am of the firm belief that anything and everything that does not affect me personally is not worthy of my worry/concern/pondering/brain activity. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif This so-called dream of living on another planet will not and does not affect me. Call me narrow-minded if you will, but worry/concern is only interest paid on trouble before it happens. I will no way live to see whatever it is that you all see as a possibility. And, I'll bet my grandkids will not live to see it either.

Not sure why you are all worrying about this so much. The human race, although quite intelligent, has no hope of modifying another planet/star's atmosphere so as to sustain human life. Even if the other planet/star has oxygen and other necessary atmospheric conditions necessary to sustain human life, there will always be other (read not sure what, but I know they're there) conditions that will be detrimental to human life as we know it.

What we need here is for the scientific community to research and develop ways and means of living on this rock in the best way possible, rather than spending countless billions of dollars chasing stuff that movies are made of.

Of course, this is all just IMHO. Just thought I would sound off a little.

Cheers,

Big Blue 66


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Woe is me.

nimnorf2
07-24-2001, 06:04 PM
Ok, I'm so confused.
First, and this one is easy and please don't mock me for being ignorant,but
what does IMHO stand for? If it's like a secret handshake or something can I join the club and what does it cost? Whimper, whimper.
Second, I thought we would get scolded by Paleo P for taking space on the forum with a discussion of Philosophy or Religion or Politics like this now even longer thread. So Pete, was I mistaken? I usually am so, I wont' be surprised.

sea69
07-24-2001, 06:08 PM
hehe "IMHO" = In My Humble Opinion.


I'm sure if Pete were upset we would know it. Nobody has gotten out of line or flamed anyone so there's no problems.. one of the nice things about this site!

http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif



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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)


;)~

nimnorf2
07-24-2001, 06:47 PM
Sean,
you rule! IMHO he he

kayofcircles
07-24-2001, 06:56 PM
Nimnorf2: Don't feel bad, because I didn't figure out what IMHO was until last week. And, granted this is non puter stuff, but we are in the After Hours section..so should be okay. Think this section is for goofing off and chilling, you know?

BigBlue: I understand what you're saying and if we weren't over populating faster than technology can keep up, then maybe science could keep us from doom. I just think that many of current problems are caused by an increasing number of people competing for a dwindling supply of resources, and I don't see how that is going to turn around on this planet. But, you're right, it's not keeping me awake at night worrying about it. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif

Paleo Pete
07-25-2001, 05:07 AM
IMHO http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif If this topic were anywhere else, I would have stepped in long ago, but as has been stated already, this is the After Hours section, and things like this are what it's for. So, no problem, carry on...

I followed the space program for a long time as a kid, watched John Glenn's first manned spaceflight, watched the Apollo and Gemini flights, moon landings, space shuttle's first launch, even saw it fly over our house in south Houston before its first trial launch. It was piggybacked onto a rather large jet, and visible for quite a distance. NASA is about 10 miles from there.

I can't say with any certainty that anyone actually did land on the moon, but nobody I ever met has been able to prove otherwise either, and I tend to trust NASA's integrity. The "solar wind" described above is a known factor of space travel, some have even proposed a huge solar wind sail to power interstellar ships.

I also know that both Carl Sagan and Issac Asimov were deeply involved in the space program for many years. Neither would ever stand for the falsification of a lunar landing. Sagan was a consultant for NASA for over 20 years and was involved in every flight since the mid 60's. He and Asimov were two of the most brilliant scientists of the last 100 years. They were responsible for many developments that made the various space missions possible. Such as freeze dried foods, methods of allowing astronauts to sleep in their bunks in zero-gravity and stay put, ink pens that would function in zero-gravity...the list goes on. (those are hypothetical examples, I don't know what specific items either was responsible for)

Both of these men were extremely intelligent, and had very high morals as well. I very seriously doubt if either one would keep quiet while NASA faked a lunar landing. They were both too deeply involved in trying to get humans out there to begin with. No way will I believe they would let a fake landing happen and not speak up about it. Space was their life, and even if NASA did try it without their knowledge, which would be extremely difficult, both would have been able to spot it easily.

I say yes, Neil Armstrong, Edwin Aldrin, and Michael Collins did land on the moon, Neil Armstrong and Edwin Aldrin walked on it, while Collins waited to pick them up.

The First Lunar Landing (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/ap11ann/FirstLunarLanding/cover.html) is a good article about it, in the astronauts' own words.

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YOU! Out of the gene pool!
Note: Please post your questions on the forums, not in my email.

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nimnorf2
07-25-2001, 11:58 AM
I'm so pumped, first this morning I find out how to alphabetise my favorites list, then I discover that iisbob may be a fellow class of '76er, now I find out that this forum allows me to proselytize, politicize and ramble about things of "great importance" like how do CFCs which are heavier than air get way up into our atmosphere (our air) and cause a hole in the ozone?, without heat from Paleo. Dag, this is a fine day indeed! I can actually attempt to persuade people to become narrow minded biggots, just like me. yahooooo!

Hey Kay, just for your consideration only, don't the rest of you folks read this, (almost every major hunger issue of our day and most recent history is due to rival political factions, burning of crops, displacement of people rather that actual lack of resources. It's more politics and power than overpopulation.) another example: If we took the money we spend on our dogs, in America alone, this doesn't include our other pets and the vet bills and the grooming and the kennel fees and so on, just the money we spend on our dog food, every human on the planet would be fed with satisfaction. NO, I'm not a dog hater, sheeesh!. I've known some folks who have lived in India and they say and I've also read that if they would just not allow the cattle to roam freely and trample stuff in the marketplace and ruin crops, (cows are considered Holy, that could be Grandma ya know)not to mention actually harvesting the cows, that much of their hunger problems would be alleviated.
Ok now I'm gonna catch heat from Hindus and dog lovers, here we go! At least it had been a good day.

iisbob
07-25-2001, 12:29 PM
hey nim; i know i ahh-'experimented " in HS, sounds like you did too! http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

LOL http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/tongue.gif

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iisbob
"Soap and education are not as sudden as a massacre, but they are more deadly in the long run."

darm
07-26-2001, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by geebee76:
Keep it up guys! this is better than the SETI forum http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

For what it's worth, the moon landing has never really been questioned over here.



Perhaps it's time for us over here to question what goes on over there.

And no it's certainly not jealousy, how could I be jealous of a country with such archaic gun laws.
No offence http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

kayofcircles
07-26-2001, 12:51 PM
Need to start a new thread..this one getting too long for us slow types.

Nimnorf: I understand your point, and it's valid, but I don't think anyone would dispute that India is over populated, regardless of the cows. I also don't think that anyone would dispute that there are more "problems" in a big city than there are in a small community. We don't even have to lock our doors. Maybe it is more about "elbow room" and feeling safe than about allocating resources, but same cause.

darm: No offense taken..agree with you on archaic gun laws. My maternal grandfather came from England. I imagine that you over there look askance at us quite frequently! "What are those crazy Yanks doing now?"

sea69
07-26-2001, 01:22 PM
Originally posted by darm:
Perhaps it's time for us over here to question what goes on over there.

And no it's certainly not jealousy, how could I be jealous of a country with such archaic gun laws.
No offence http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

I knew somebody had to wind up screwing this one up.

BIG can of worms there..............

needless to say I disagree.


http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/mad.gif

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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)


[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 07-26-2001).]

darm
07-26-2001, 02:41 PM
I didn't mean to offend anyone when I mentioned your gun laws, and I hereby promise never to mention them again. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/wink.gif

bassvax
07-26-2001, 02:44 PM
Wolfenstein he he

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Flush 'N' Forget
FE Stokes WWTP (http://www2.apex.net/users/hwuswtp)

BigBlue66
07-26-2001, 02:45 PM
Howdy,

Beings as I am a member of the NRA, I shall not venture into these waters. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

As for overpopulation and scarce food supplies, it's all a bunch of bunk. Learned that from my macroeconomics instructor. There's piles upon piles of grain (food source) that's just sitting there, but as (Whoops, hit the wrong damn button, prematurely posted http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) Nimnorf2 pointed out, it's all about local governments and politics.

Well, I could go on and on, but my original stance that living on another planet is not within reach during my lifetime, or probably even during my great-great-grandkids' lifetime, still holds. I personally see it as a pipe-dream, something for scientists to dream about and spend tax-payer money to pursue.

Cheers,

BB 66


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Woe is me.

[This message has been edited by BigBlue66 (edited 07-26-2001).]

sea69
07-26-2001, 03:24 PM
hehe BB.. these look familiar??
http://66.51.112.89/hotlink/sea/Picture%20202.jpg

http://66.51.112.89/hotlink/sea/Picture%20203.jpg

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sea1_69@hotmail.com

homepage (http://www.seanweb1.homestead.com/3.html)


http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by sea69 (edited 07-26-2001).]

Revjapaca
07-26-2001, 03:36 PM
Hey gang. I hate to jump in here but I have been reading the posts and wanted to mention that recently I watched a Discover channel or TLC (one of the educational channels )doc on world hunger. It stated that the worldwide production of food is enough for EVERY human to have 4.1 lbs a day. So it is obviously a politacal problem. Just my 2 cents.


[This message has been edited by Revjapaca (edited 07-26-2001).]

Ghost_Hacker
07-26-2001, 04:35 PM
IMHO.....Our problem is that we place a monetary value on everthing.

Water,food,shelter very little doesn't have a dollar sign attached to it somewhere down the "supply" line.


------------------
Comment heard from a Klingon programmer.

"Our users will know fear and cower before our software! Ship it! Ship it and let them flee like the dogs they are!"

BigBlue66
07-26-2001, 06:06 PM
Hey Sea,

Yep, sure do. Cool beans. http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

BB 66


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Woe is me.