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Daniel
05-07-2001, 10:11 AM
Hello.

I have Yamaha CRW6416S drive, SCSI, with the latest (1.0d) firmware upgrade (on Pentium 166, 32RAM, BTC IDE CDROM X12(non-functional, though), Win98).
The problem is that suddenly it couldn't read some disks (TDK's light-green metallic disks and Verbatim's blue). The CDs that couldn't be read were burned by that own CD-RW, and some time ago the same disks could be read and used without any problem.

Now, sometimes when i insert those CDs (even if autonotification is off), it hangs a PC (the CD-RW tries to read a disk for a very long time, then stops, and it is not even possible to eject a CD. Then, it is not enough to reboot if you want to reject CD - i have to power down), other times (most of the times, actually) i could browse CD's contents, but when i try to open a text file, or run a program, i get an empty file or a message that an application is not a valid Win32 program, respectively. When i right-click on most files on those disks and choose "Properties" from a pop-up menu, it crashes an Explorer (exception in module CRYPT32.DLL, and sometimes in KERLEL32.dll). When i try to copy a file, i get a message "Device doesn't recognize the command". What is interesting, is that some files are not empty, could be copied, and it's properties could be viewed without crashing anything.

Now, there is some distinction between TDK's and Verbatim's disks:
TDK's either freeze up the system or their contents could be browsed but not used. From the other side, Verbatim's never freezes anything, and sometimes they are fully functional, but other times when you insert Verbatim's CD it appears to be empty, and when you check disk's properties it shows that CD has 2GB of used space.


When i try to run CD-R Diagnostic on those disks, i get a warning: "Since the first track on that disk doesn't start at block 0, an implicit data track is being assumed to be present from block 0 to block 11249".


When i try to copy most of files with CD Diagnostic, i get an error: "Block passed end of recording on media. Sense = 21 00", and though the file is copied (it takes up space), it is still not a valid file.


All the disks (readable and unreadable) were burned using CeQuadrat's WinOnCD 3.60.420 .

Any attempt to read problematic CDs from Linux partition results in a total failure (even a directory tree couldn't be read. But at least it never hangs a PC).


Also, have some GPT CDs (those were burned with some other CD-RW), which also have light-green colored recording layer (but lighter), and they also were readable some time ago, but now they have exactly the same symptoms as TDK's disks.


All unreadable disks are in perfect condition, don't have any scratches, were not exposed to the sun or heat, and were burned just some month ago (by the way, i burned a lot of other CDs after those, and they are readable (for the time being, at least)).


Now, i actually have 3 questions:

1)Why i have those problems?

2)Is (or how) to make those disks readable again?

3)Could it be that there would be a similar problems with another disks burned with that CD-RW?


Probably if an answer to the first question would be found, the other two would be answered too, but maybe not.


BTW: I though it could be usable to include some CD Diagnostic's
reports here. They seem to contain a lot of interesting information (though i don't understand it). Especially interesting seems to the a following sentence: "Volume size appears suspicious, header says 160238 while track is 11250 blocks.". Actually, all the disks are more then half full, so indeed it seems to be very strange.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++
The following information was collected by CD Diagnostic
Copyright 1997-2000, CD-ROM Productions

ISO-9660 data track
Volume ID: 0009221426
System ID:
Volume size: 160238
Volume set size: 1
Volume in set: 1
Block size (bytes): 2048
Path table size (bytes): 9830
Path table (L): 22
Optional path table (L): 0
Path table (M): 27
Optional path table (M): 0
Root directory block: 1046
Volume Set:
Publisher:
Data preparer: CeQuadrat 32bit ISO-9660 Formatter Copyright (c) 1995 by CeQuadrat GmbH
Application:
Copyright file:
Abstract file:
Bibliography file:
Volume created: 9/22/00 14:26:13
Volume modified: 9/22/00 14:29:26
Volume expires: 11/8/62 8:27:57
Volume effective: 11/8/62 8:27:57
---------------------------- Big-endian format fields -----------------
Volume size: 160238
Volume set size: 1
Volume in set: 1
Block size (bytes): 2048
Path table size (bytes): 9830
Root directory block: 1046
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++
The following information was collected by CD Diagnostic
Copyright 1997-2000, CD-ROM Productions

Table of Contents
There are a total of 2 tracks on CD, plus the lead-out.
ATIP Reference Power = 4, Reference Speed = 0
Disc manufacturer: Taiyo Yuden Company Limited Type: Cyanine (green) or Azo (blue)
Track 0 occupies 11250 blocks (2 Min, 30 Sec, 0 Frames).
This track contains data in ISO-9660 format and also contains Joliet format directory information.
Track 1 occupies 0 blocks (0 Min, 0 Sec, 0 Frames).
This track is marked as being blank.
There are 324823 free blocks in this track.
Error reading track data from CD, no further information available
Lead-out track starts at block 11250.
---------------------------------------------
Data track 0 recorded as part of session 1.
Volume size appears suspicious, header says 160238 while track is 11250 blocks.
This track has an application identifier of " ".
There are 479 accessible files and 759 directories contained in this track.
There are 13283 files in the directory which are not recorded in this track.
The post-gap for this disc is either missing or invalid.
---------------------------------------------
There are one or more conditions that make replication of this disc questionable.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++


++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++
The following information was collected by CD Diagnostic
Copyright 1997-2000, CD-ROM Productions

Device name YAMAHA CRW6416S
Revision 1.0d
Date of revision 30/05/00
Read CDDA command 0xbe
Raw read command 0xbe
Track information command 0x52
Using 10-byte commands False
Loading mechanism Tray
Bar code reading supported False
UPC code is read True
ISRC code is read True
Maximum reading speed 2822 Kbps, 16X
Device buffer size (K) 2048
Multisession capable True
Mode 2 Form 1 supported True
Mode 2 Form 2 supported True
Digital output on port 1 False
Digital output on port 2 False
Audio play supported True
Reading CDDA supported True
Accurate CDDA positioning True
Inactivity spin-down 16 seconds
Device capabilities read/write both CD-RW & CD-R
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++++

mjc
05-07-2001, 11:14 AM
Daniel, thank you for the thoruoughness of your post, unless someone else has an idea right off the bat, I'm guessing some sort of alignment problem.

Have you tried the disks in other CD drives? Do they read or just hang?

What were the fixes/changes that the firmware update was supposed to do?

It may take a little more time to come up with some mor e for you but hang in there.....


------------------
mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/highrise/11/index.htm)

All Control Agents must memorize Rule 5 before proceding to Rule 6

Daniel
05-08-2001, 01:40 AM
>Originally posted by mjc:
>Have you tried the disks in other CD drives? Do they read or just hang?

No, still not - i was trying to find somebody with CDROM for more then a week. I hope that maybe tomorrow i will be able to check.

>What were the fixes/changes that the firmware update was supposed to do?

As i remember, when i bought CD-RW, it has a firmware version 1.0a, and those are the changes to the upgraded versions:

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++
What's New in 1.0d (updated: June 23, 2000):

*)Add support for reading High-Speed CD-RW disc (New standard for CD-RW disc). No support for writing, re-writing and erasing the disc.
*)Add support for reading some copy-protected CD-ROM discs.
*)The problem fixed with Retrospect from Dantz where an error occurs during recording on slower Macintosh and Windows models.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What's New in 1.0c (updated: September 15, 1999):

*)Problem fixed where:Continuous playback of files such as video file on CRW6416 connected to SCSI card equipped with beige G3 Mac suddenly stops and the system hangs up.
*)Problem fixed where:Using REX-PCI32/REX-PCI33 SCSI card of Ratoc Systems Inc., formatting a RW disc by Direct CD ends in failure or host system may get system reset during copying files to a CD-RW disc. These problems appear only when PC and CRW6416 powered up with a RW disc inside the drive.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++

I haven't been able to find out what was updated in 1.0b version (or maybe there was no such a version? Anyway, that is all i have been able to find on Yamaha's homepage).

By the way, if i remember properly, the last time i have been able to use (successfully) those disks that are unreadable now, was before an upgrade to 1.0d firmware version. I thought that it is not an important information, because Verbatim's disks began failing only a short time ago, while after an upgrade.

Anyway, i asked Yamaha to send me an old firmware, but still didn't get an answer.


Daniel.

Daniel
05-08-2001, 02:44 AM
I would have liked to make some adjustments to my first post (sorry that i didn't do it immediately - clearly it had to be done before posting a question in the first place):

I just checked *all* the CDs that i have, and found out that there is a lot of Verbatim's CDs that exhibit exactly the same problem as TDK's disks, which says that all the distinctions i have made between Verbatim's and TDK's CDs are off.

Also, some of an unreadable disks were burned *after* an upgrade to firmware version 1.0d (i am almost sure about that).

Once again, sorry for misleading post.

Daniel.

mjc
05-08-2001, 12:07 PM
Ok since you've checked most of the disks and found problems with TDK and Verbatum, do you have any other disks that do work?

If so what brand are they?

Are they the same colors as the TDK and Verbatum?

I'm thinking along the lines that maybe the update did something that doesn't like that particular color of disk anymore. If all else fails, take one or two of disks and go to some place like OfficeMax or Staples and see if you can use them on the display machines....

It isn't unheard of for a particular burner to "dislike" certain brands or colors of media.

When was the last time the machine was cleaned? What does Yamaha reccomend as a cleaning routine?

------------------
mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/highrise/11/index.htm)

All Control Agents must memorize Rule 5 before proceding to Rule 6

Daniel
05-08-2001, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by mjc:
Ok since you've checked most of the disks and found problems with TDK and Verbatum, do you have any other disks that do work?


Silver Line, silver: ok
Pioneer, dark-green: ok
Sky, light-green: ok
Not branded, silver: ok

I have only a couple-two of branded CDs other then TDK and Verbatim, and all of them were not burned by my own CD-RW - those seemed to be ok, though it still does't prove anything. There is a plenty of non-branded CDs (which also were not burned with my CD-RW), but i checked only 10 or so (it would be too much to test all ~100), and they also seemed to be fine. Once i tried to burn GPT (silver), but it always failed - those CDs were unreadable from the beginning (immediately after burning).



I'm thinking along the lines that maybe the update did something that doesn't like that particular color of disk anymore.


But if it is so, why some Verbatim's disks are readable while others are not? They not only of the same brand or color, they even come from the same pack.


If all else fails, take one or two of disks and go to some place like OfficeMax or Staples and see if you can use them on the display machines....


Today i succeeded to find somebody with CDROM, and all unreadable CD were ok


It isn't unheard of for a particular burner to "dislike" certain brands or colors of media.


TDK and Verbatim are on the "recommended" list


When was the last time the machine was cleaned?


Today :-).


What does Yamaha reccomend as a cleaning routine?


I was unable to find out (not in manual or on Yamaha's site).

mjc
05-08-2001, 07:05 PM
Ok, if they worked on the other drive then the disks should be ok, then we're back to something about the update and those particular disks not liking each other.....are they mostly data, music or programs (exe files)?

>Add support for reading some copy-protected CD-ROM discs.

This could mean that only certain copy-protection schemes are now readable and the rest aren't...not that this is necessarily the case, but if the questionable disk are copies of games or something then this may be the case.....but if the disks are backups and complied disks then it unlikely that any form of copy protection is on them and this would be irrelevant...

Since the firmware update have you checked for updates for the other associated software/drivers?

It may be time to consider replacing the dead IDE CD-rom dirve, not a perfect fix but a viable workaround if the disks check out ok on another drive....

Sorry if I haven't been more actual help but I'm puzzled too and I'm still trying to find more info about it and hopefully a fix......someone else here may have some more ideas so hang in there and keep checking back......



------------------
mjc
Links list:Computer Links (http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/highrise/11/index.htm)

All Control Agents must memorize Rule 5 before proceding to Rule 6

Daniel
05-09-2001, 03:31 AM
.....are they mostly data, music or programs (exe files)?


Lots of data (html etc.) and programs.


.....but if the disks are backups and complied disks then it unlikely that any form of copy protection is on them and this would be irrelevant...


There is only backups - not a copies of protected disks.


Since the firmware update have you checked for updates for the other associated software/drivers?


After reading your reply, i tried to update SCSI controller's driver (Davicontrol's DC-2964F, from 4.16 version to 4.22), but that didn't help. Nothing else have been updated for a long time (5 years).


It may be time to consider replacing the dead IDE CD-rom dirve, not a perfect fix but a viable workaround if the disks check out ok on another drive....


That is cetainly right, and actually applies to the whole PC (which was bought when x486 was a standard and couple of year later upgraded to Pentium), but it would be somewhat weird to buy CDROM (even second hand), because it will cost more then PC itself http://www.PCGuide.com/ubb/smile.gif.