BIOS Settings?

[Stubbs]

Recently upgraded to WIN 98 and think my BIOS settings are incorrect. Can't get any sound nor can I load the printer either with CD or plug and play. Computer is HP 8175 and printer is HP. Is there somewhere I can find what the BIOS settings should be?

[skhips]

What BIOS are you using (Top of first page normally)

You need to ensure the parallel port is enabled and check that if set for EPP you have an EPP standard cable if not set it to auto or standard or SPP.

You also need to ensure that plug and play is enabled but if you quote what BIOS you are using and version then people will be able to give you a bit more direction.

[skhips]

You may need to reinstall your motherboard drivers especialy if yuo have on board sound (drivers for Win 98 not what you had before)

[Budfred]

It is unlikely that your BIOS settings changed because of an upgrade to Win98. It is possible that the settings you have are not appropriate for Win98, so you will want to check that. It is probably more likely that the drivers for these devices are not able to work properly in Win98 or they may simply need to be reinstalled.

[Rick]

Originally posted by Budfred
It is unlikely that your BIOS settings changed because of an upgrade to Win98.

Unless the Bios is set to PnP O/S YES

win98 can reak havic on a system set to pnp O/S

[Rick]

Go Into the Bios.
Set PnP O/S to NO
set all your drives to auto

Go to the page in bios for the Ports ( LPT and Com ports)
If it has a selection to Load System Defaults use that.
Other wise set them to the old dos defaults

Set all as needed to enable then

LPT = normal ,, address 378
Com 1 = 3f8 IRQ 4
com2 = 2f8 IRQ 3

You can always change the LPT port to epp or ecp later

Visit HP's web site and d/l any drivers you can find for your system.
Audio files were listed when I did a search for your model

[Budfred]

True, but that isn't a change in the BIOS settings, that is a BIOS setting that needs to be changed. My point is that OS installs don't change BIOS settings....

[Rick]

It does in fact change the Bios to match what MS wanted it set to
When the Bios was set to PnP =Yes

Running win98 could and did save the changes it made to the Bios

It you set it to yes.
then go into device manager You Can/Could make changes
These changes were saved to the bios ..
When set to NO you can not make changes in device manager to device settings

[Budfred]

Rick,

I just read your last post several times and I am confused about what you are saying... Are you saying the installing Win98 actually changes BIOS settings??? I have never heard of the OS having that ability if that is what you are saying.

I understand that BIOS settings can effect the way that Windoze works, but I have never heard of Windoze being able to actually open the BIOS and change settings.... please clarify...

[Rick]

YUP
That is exactly what I am saying

Windows Can save changes to the Bios without opening the Bios .
{B} When and IF [/B] the Bios is set to PnP O/S Enabled

One of the reasons Many People tell users to set the PnP O/S in Bios to NO

This is especially true for those systems that carry the Label
“Designed For Windows 98 “ or above

If you go into device manager and check the Properties for an onboard device
Say for example something simple like a PnP sound card or Nic
Under Resources You will find how it is set and what is used.
BUT You can not change anything .

If your bios were set to PnP enabled
Then those grayed / blocked out areas would could be changed
“Settings based on ”
“Use Automatic “
“Change settings “
If Windows is allowed to resolve a conflict IT Will make the changes and they would be saved to the Bios..

If you look at how Windows uses and adjusts it’s use of Virtual IRQ’s
Hey My sound card is set to IQR 19 according to XP

But the industry standard is the system
Only Has 16

[Stubbs]

Thanks for all the replies. BIOS version is 1.00.00 DTOL

In checking the BIOS settings the PnP OS is set at Windows (TM) 95. Options are, Disabled, and Other PnPOS. Should it be set for other PnPOS? There is no "no" setting.

john

[kayofcircles]

Rick: Can you change it later if you've screwed up??? I remember changing the new puter to PNP in the BIOS about a month ago. I thought since 98SE was a PNP, I should set it for such.

Stubbs: Probably "disabled" is the one you want, but wait for confirmation since obviously I don't know my stuff!

[Rick]

Kayofcircles

Yes you can disable the PnP in bios at any time.
The Bios will retain all the settings as is when you make the change.

Until you add/remove something or change the escd to allow changes
At that time it will return everything Back to the Bios defaults Not the Windoz setting

Stubbs

Set it to Disabled

[Stubbs]

RICK:

The change from Windows 95 to "Disabled" per your message worked as I was able to load and install my new printer.

When the computer restarted it tried to load "analog devices AD 1816" but would not load and had to abort.

I then went to the HP site and tried to load it, which it did to a degree but the last screen that came up was "BIOS Read Error" "Cannot load RDBIOS32DLL"
Setup aborted.

Another problem, as was the case before I made the above change, when I open "network neighborhood" the message is "unable to brouse the network" "the network is not accessable"

Some other items I need to revise in BIOS?

John

[Sylvander]

I’m amazed at a recommendation to disable PnP when it took so much research and development and manufacturing effort to produce it.

I’ll try to summarise “Introducing Microsoft Windows 95”:
PnP COMPRISES:
1. PnP Operating System.
2. PnP BIOS.
3. PnP hardware devices with drivers.

LEVELS OF SUPPORT
At the highest level, with all three components in place:
1. Install new devices by plugging them in and turning on the system.
2. Hardware identification & configuration is automated and transparent.
3. With PnP BIOS the system supports:
a. Full dynamic operation, including hot docking.
b. Advanced Power Management.
c. Automatic configuration of boot devices and programming of motherboard devices.

BENEFITS
1. Users do not have to worry about switches, jumpers, hardware conflicts, or loading drivers manually.
2. Configure hardware devices automatically without user intervention.
3. Respond to dynamic configuration events.
4. Load & unload device drivers automatically to reflect the devices attached to the system through docking or undocking.
5. Applications can adjust their configurations automatically to reflect insertion or removal of devices such as network cards & fax/modem cards.

CONFIGURATION PROCESS
1. First by the BIOS during power-up phase: The BIOS configures a display device, an input device [keyboard] & a device for initial program load [floppy or HDD]. Then it must pass the information about each of these devices to the operating system for additional system configuration.
2. During device addition or removal the three PnP components [BIOS, O/S, Hardware] must:
a. Identify installed devices.
b. Determine device-resource requirements.
c. Create a non-conflicting system configuration.
d. Program all devices.
e. Load device drivers.
f. Notify the operating system of configuration changes.

“Once any resource conflicts have been resolved, the O/S programs each hardware device with its working configuration then stores all configuration information in the central database [the registry].”

Some examples of dynamic configuration events:
1. Insertion of a PCMCIA card.
2. Addition or removal of a peripheral such as a mouse, CD-ROM drive or printer.
3. Docking/undocking of a notebook PC.

PnP SUPPORT IN WINDOWS
Includes:
1. Automatic installation and configuration of PnP devices:
Resource assignments for IRQ’s, I/O ports & DMA addresses are handled by the BIOS & O/S, thus avoiding conflicts.
2. Dynamic operating environment:
a. Hot docking & undocking.
b. Hot plugging & unplugging.
c. Dynamic loading & unloading of drivers.
d. Dynamically notifying other O/S system components & applications about changes to the state of the system.
Users can reconfigure on the fly and have changes take effect immediately, without rebooting.

PnP ARCHITECTURE
Consists:
1. Configuration Manager: Orchestrates communications from the BIOS & hardware devices.
2. Hardware tree & Registry: Info about device types whether currently installed or not.
3. Bus & Port Enumerators [ISA, PCI, SCSI, PCMCIA, parallel ports, serial ports]: These build the hardware tree.
4. Resource Arbitrators: Resolve resource conflicts while allocating resources.
5. Setup & Device Installer: Creates a central configuration database during initial system setup.

All that effort expended so you didn't need to configure manually at the initial setup and re-configure manually at every change to the system and you're going back to the bad old days?

[Rick]

Sylvander


The Bios change made is disabling the PnP Operating system segment of the system Only
Stopping it from making changes to the Bios settings.. The bios is better at adjusting these settings than MS

To-date I have NOT seen a single instance where having it enabled has helped solve a single problem
In Fact it has caused more than it has solved.
The Bios and the Hardware are still PnP
This change only prevents MS from screwing it up during boot up of the O/S and setting things to it’s preference

[Rick]

Stubbs

The ad 1816 is part of your sound card
Not sure what segment .. Possibly dos support failed ?
Are you able to see it in device manager ?
The Multimedia icon should show your sound card and what is installed and active..



The error message from the network does not necessarily mean a Bios setting problem.

You should start by looking in device manager at the Network icon.
Does it have an exclamation mark next to it ?
If not.
Then you should double check all your network settings and installed services also protocols

[Sylvander]

RICK

Lets see if I’ve understood this correctly:

1. In my BIOS: If I set “PnP O/S Installed = No” and “Resources Controlled by = Manual”, a list of IRQ 3,4,5,7,9,10,11,12,14,15 & DMA 0,1,3,5,6,7 appears which can be specified as “Legacy ISA” or “PCI/ISA PnP”.
2. If I manually set one of these to “Legacy ISA” it becomes unavailable to the BIOS PnP system and is set by a manual jumper on the ISA card.
3. The others, which are manually set to “PCI/ISA PnP”, are available to the PnP BIOS which then makes non-conflicting resource allocations.
4. These allocations can then not be changed because the BIOS will not respond to commands from the PnP O/S [which has been PnP disempowered].
5. “Reset Configuration Data = Disabled” is normally set which means that the BIOS’s resource allocations are “locked”. If any hardware is added or disconnected then “Reset Configuration Data = Enabled” should be set and the BIOS will re-detect the hardware and re-allocate resources then automatically reset “Reset Configuration Data = Disabled” to re-lock the resource allocations.
This is "Static Detection" of resource requirements NOT DYNAMIC.

QUESTIONS
1. Doesn’t this disable the Windows ability to maintain a “Dynamic Operating Environment”?
i.e. hot docking/undocking, hot plugging/unplugging of hardware could not be appropriately responded to because the BIOS will refuse to make the necessary resource allocation changes when Windows requests it.
2. All the “Hardware Tree” settings in the Registry designed to make this possible become redundant.
3. All the Windows PnP architecture [which so much effort went into producing] becomes redundant and sits there doing a big, fat nothing.

I understand that you have a low opinion of Windows’ ability to operate PnP effectively.
I have a tendency to prefer manual control to automatic, but the allocation of resources is so complex and since Microsoft and others should know their business I’ve decided to let it do it’s job and personally have never seen it fail.
On the contrary, an incompetent shop broke my son’s motherboard and tried to fix the problem by manually setting resources [which failed].
We eventually forced them to supply a new motherboard by sending a registered letter notifying them of his intention to take them to the small claims court. It was amazing how quickly they conceded when faced with explaining their actions in court.

[Rick]

Originally posted by Sylvander


QUESTIONS
1. Doesn’t this disable the Windows ability to maintain a “Dynamic Operating Environment”?
i.e. hot docking/undocking, hot plugging/unplugging of hardware could not be appropriately responded to because the BIOS will refuse to make the necessary resource allocation changes when Windows requests it.
2. All the “Hardware Tree” settings in the Registry designed to make this possible become redundant.
3. All the Windows PnP architecture [which so much effort went into producing] becomes redundant and sits there doing a big, fat nothing.

First Off the Resource control is by default set to disabled BY THE BIOS until a new hardware device is detected by the bios .
It is then added and the Reset Recourse Control is set to enable at that time and is adjusted when the save and exit bios is used.

If you change the Bios to Manual for adding Non PnP devices ONLY those slots that you set to Non-Pnp are affected the others remain Pnp and are controlled by the bios/chipset


1.. NO it does not affect windows ability to adjust Itself.
( It shows 19 IRQ’s in my system )

MS knows Software.. NOT HARDWARE
Hot swapping still works ( IE: SCSI hot swap is controlled by the Hardware NOT windows )
USB, Pc-Card PCMCIA and even firewire all still work perfectly ..
Once it is installed it will continue to work. regardless of what is set in the bios.

2.. All that info is still used by windows in the O/S environment
Not in the Bios control..

3 NO it doesn’t just sit there ..
The windows PnP is there so Windows can adjust to Your Hardware settings
without changing them..

[Rick]

Originally posted by Sylvander
RICK

Lets see if I’ve understood this correctly:

1. In my BIOS: If I set “PnP O/S Installed = No” and “Resources Controlled by = Manual”, a list of IRQ 3,4,5,7,9,10,11,12,14,15 & DMA 0,1,3,5,6,7 appears which can be specified as “Legacy ISA” or “PCI/ISA PnP”.
2. If I manually set one of these to “Legacy ISA” it becomes unavailable to the BIOS PnP system and is set by a manual jumper on the ISA card.
3. The others, which are manually set to “PCI/ISA PnP”, are available to the PnP BIOS which then makes non-conflicting resource allocations.
4. These allocations can then not be changed because the BIOS will not respond to commands from the PnP O/S [which has been PnP disempowered].
5. “Reset Configuration Data = Disabled” is normally set which means that the BIOS’s resource allocations are “locked”. If any hardware is added or disconnected then “Reset Configuration Data = Enabled” should be set and the BIOS will re-detect the hardware and re-allocate resources then automatically reset “Reset Configuration Data = Disabled” to re-lock the resource allocations.
This is "Static Detection" of resource requirements NOT DYNAMIC.

Using Your example above.
I have a SCSI ISA card that will NOT work if the Bios is set to PnP for it’s slot.( Isa– slot6)
The bios will attempt to Share that slots resources when it is set to PnP
FACT this card will NOT SHARE
The isa/pci shared slot next to that contains a PnP isa Modem ( set to Pnp)
the next pci slot contains a scai card the next a sound card the next a Nic and the last pci slot contains a Video card.. Also on board are Usb.Lpt , com ports And agp video

Everything works perfect and the ONLY resources NOT controlled by Pnp BIOS is the isa scsi card slot ..
Win98, WinXP Dos 6.22 and yes even Linux runs perfectly on here with NO need to readjust anything when booting to another O/S
Because the Bios is set to PnP O/S = NO

If I make any changes to the above installed hardware
The Bios will detect and adjust to those changes DYNAMICALLY
Then when windows boots it can adjust itself to these changes

[Rick]

Originally posted by Sylvander
I understand that you have a low opinion of Windows’ ability to operate PnP effectively.
I have a tendency to prefer manual control to automatic, but the allocation of resources is so complex and since Microsoft and others should know their business I’ve decided to let it do it’s job and personally have never seen it fail.
On the contrary, an incompetent shop broke my son’s motherboard and tried to fix the problem by manually setting resources [which failed].
We eventually forced them to supply a new motherboard by sending a registered letter notifying them of his intention to take them to the small claims court. It was amazing how quickly they conceded when faced with explaining their actions in court.

The Key word here is Incompetent
Again Microsoft Knows Software Not Hardware

Having had to repair and or clean up after a few of these people myself over the years
Including But not limited to some of these retail store chains

The worst to date in Incompetents has to be the tech who replaced an AT power supply with an ATX unit. Then used Duck tape to attach it to the bottom of the case with the fan blowing inward toward the memory

In regard to cleaning up after windows PnP settings.
EVERY time a friend adds a new USB device to his system
Windows changes the allocations for the devices and regardless if his USB printer is plugged in or not. Windows forgets / loses it and forces him to re-detect it and reinstall the drivers
EVERY TIME

BTW..
His Bios is set to PnP O/S=yes per the company tech support of that unit.

[kayofcircles]

Stubbs : Someone will need to correct me if I am wrong here, but we have a friend who recently screwed things up by clicking on Network Neighborhood icon, and changing stuff in there. I have a Network Neighborhood icon, and truthfully have never truly figured out what that is for...but whatever it is (assume networking of some kind)..I DON'T need it or use it to access the Net. Your ISP is configured through DialUp Networking in My Computer. I remember going into the Registry and deleting the stupid icon off the Desktop on old puter, but haven't done that yet on new. We got a bit distracted on your thread..but if you do need the Network Neighborhood for some reason, I can ask my husband where he found the info on "fixing" it. Think it was just removing it entirely in Add/Remove, then reinstalling from the 98 CD, but not sure. I think 98 insists on installing it.

Thank you, Rick. Whew!...

[mjc]

That (Rick's comments), is one of the main reasons why you must do it in dual boot environment...(doesn't matter if it is two Windows versions or Linux) so you don't have conflicts from too much mucking about.

[Rick]

Originally posted by kayofcircles
Stubbs : Someone will need to correct me if I am wrong here, but we have a friend who recently screwed things up by clicking on Network Neighborhood icon, and changing stuff in there. I have a Network Neighborhood icon, and truthfully have never truly figured out what that is for...but whatever it is (assume networking of some kind)..I DON'T need it or use it to access the Net. Your ISP is configured through DialUp Networking in My Computer. I remember going into the Registry and deleting the stupid icon off the Desktop on old puter, but haven't done that yet on new. We got a bit distracted on your thread..but if you do need the Network Neighborhood for some reason, I can ask my husband where he found the info on "fixing" it. Think it was just removing it entirely in Add/Remove, then reinstalling from the 98 CD, but not sure. I think 98 insists on installing it.

Thank you, Rick. Whew!...

Kay

Have you installed TweakUi for windows yet?
if not. grab it and use it to get rid of the network icon on the desk top..

You are Very correct aboout screwing things up If someone opens the network Properties and making even a small change can trash it to the point of making it useless

[kayofcircles]

This is way farfetched, but my husband swears that he just absent mindedly clicked on Network Neighborhood, and lost the modem on the ME work puter! I know..sounds like a big fish story, but he swears that's all he did, and he said he was grateful he had configured the ME Restore thing recently, and did that and got the modem back. That icon on the Desktop is like a "newbie trap." Our friend just needed to connect his puter with another's to play a game, and thought he needed the "Network" thing, and his modem was "gone" after he piddled in there. Of course, with him, one is never sure what else he did and I spent a couple of hours on the phone helping him reinstall the modem, but he still couldn't connect. I asked my beloved last night, and he said he just removed all networking stuff in Add/Remove, and then reinstalled just DialUp Networking and nothing else under Communications, and it fixed the problem. I asked if the Network Neighborhood icon came back, and he said he thought so.

Stubbs: If you didn't change anything in Network Neighborhood, and you still have the modem, and Device Manager is not reporting any problems...I wouldn't worry about it. Did you get the sound card thing figured out/fixed?

Rick: No, had forgotten about TweakUI. Will fool with it someday soon when have time.