PC reboots during bootup

[tjjohn1001]

Hi all,

My 2nd, backup PC has suddenly started rebooting during Windows bootup. It will reach a certain point during Windows loading, and sometimes almost completely load Windows (in XP, then the same problem with Windows ME with a different hard drive), then I hear these two little ticking sounds, then the black screen and reboot. It started doing this just occasionally, but does it everytime now I boot up, and I can't recall anything out of the ordinary I did to cause it.

The equipment is around six years old, and I've done all the usual troubleshooting: swapping out memory strips, stripping down the pc to the bare minumum needed to boot, vacuuming dust out, re-seating the CPU, making sure all fans are running, swapping out graphics cards, double checking the connections, re-setting the bios. I don't suspect a virus since I swapped hard drives and installed Windows ME. I suspect now that it's either a faulty CPU, Motherboard, or the power supply. But which? What is most likely to fail first, the CPU or Motherboard? Here are the specs of what I'm running:

Intel P3 Costa Rica 866 Mhz (never overclocked)
Chaintech CT-6VIA4 motherboard
AGP 4x Graphics card (tried swapping out with PCI graphics card, same probs)
2x 128Mb PC 133 SDRAM (tried with just one strip, then the other, same prob)
80Gb hard IDE hard drive (swapped out with different hard drives)

Please let me know if you have any experience of anything like this and any possible troubleshooting that I haven't already tried.

Many thanks,

tjjohn1001

[bob Bios]

Well here is my best guess, put in a new PSU, the loading becomes greater as the bootup changes from 16 colours to 32bit. You have eliminated most other things by substitution - other than that an obscure motherboard fault.
Bob

[Sylvander]

1. Load and run Knoppix from a Knoppix Linux Live CD.
If it runs just fine, then there's no problem with the hardware [HDD excluded]; it's a problem with the loading of the Windows software [from this/these particular HDD's using one particular CONTROLLER].
Are all the drives set to "Auto"[-detect]["Dynamic detection and configuration of the drive parameters in the BIOS Setup]?

2. Then home in on fixing that [probable] software problem [but possibly problem with controller or BIOS configuration].

3. Are you saying you have two HDD's?
a. HDD1 had WinXP installed whilst the HDD holding it was connected to this same set of PC hardware?
b. HDD2 had WinME installed whilst the HDD holding it was connected to this same set of PC hardware?

4. "then I hear these two little ticking sounds"
Probably the HDD head being "parked" as Windows gives up on loading by reading the files [those files using the FAT32 or NTFS file system].
Possibly there is file system corruption [I get and fix it at regular intervals] and Windows has decided to terminate the attempt to load [and power off the PC because it is considered such a serious error].
If your file system is FAT32 use the "MS Scandisk" program on the "Emergency Boot CD" [EBCD] to scan & fix any errors found in the file system on the drive partitions. [It can read both FAT & NTFS, but only fix (write to) FAT]
I believe you can scan/fix the NTFS file system using chkdsk on the XP CD "Recovery console" [or whatever its name is].

5. How to make a free “Smart Boot Manager” floppy
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=41498
This makes it easier to boot a chosen drive [particularly the one holding the EBCD].

6. How to make a free EBCD bootable CD
http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=41485
This has a number of useful utilities included including "Image" [for DOS, by Terabyte] & "File Manager".

7. If it's not the above, try a "Repair" of the Windows installation [I'm assuming you have no (good, recent) image backups to restore].

[tjjohn1001]

Hi Guys,

Many thanks for your helpful suggestions. Sylvander - I'm not using two hard drives simultaneously, I have been substituting them to eliminate the hard drives a possible source of the problem. I do have auto-detect on in the BIOS. I thought too that if XP was the possible source, then it might boot up OK under Windows ME. Still no joy.

I've been reading about capacitor leakage, and now I'm inclined to think this could be the problem, bearing in mind the age of the motherboard (6 years). No obvious signs, although a couple of caps look like they might have a very slight bulge. I will try your suggestions first though before taking the plunge and buying new gear. It seems to reboot under WinME at exactly the same point - Windows ME is 99% loaded, then the ticks. Happens without fail right after the Yahoo Messenger tray icon loads, but I don't believe Messenger is the fault. Maybe at this point it's trying to load some drivers that require motherboard hardware which involve leaky capacitors? I assume the CPU is OK since it allows Windows to load almost to completion. I also checked CPU fan temps and RPM, and they are well within the safety margin.

Bob, I will try your suggestion too and use a different, new power source. Those involve capacitors too I understand. Through process of elimination, I hope to narrow it down to one or two possible culprits. Thanks again, we all hate to consign to the grave old, usually reliable PCs.

Cheers

[Sylvander]

"I'm not using two hard drives simultaneously"
I understood that, but I see what you mean; it looks from the wording I used as if I had thought that.

"I have been substituting them"
That's what I understood, but I was concerned lest you had installed one or more of these Windows OS's on some other hardware set.

"Happens without fail right after the Yahoo Messenger tray icon loads"
Have you tried booting into Safe Mode and configuring Windows not to rebbot on a Fatal Error, but to display the error warning instead?

"we all hate to consign to the grave old, usually reliable PCs"
Agreed.

If you had an image backup of a Windows setup that you KNEW worked, and then restored it and...
a. The problem disappeared.
You'd know it was a software problem.
b. The problem remained.
You'd know it was NOT a software problem.

Image backups are vital for certain things; helping to diagnose the nature of a problem is one of them.

But Knoppix would do almost as well.
If the problem is not there with Knoppix and still there with the restored image, then it's the HDD/controller at fault.

[tjjohn1001]

Thanks again for your time Sylvander. When I try to boot XP into safe mode, I can't even get far enough to do a system restore to an earlier date. It reboots before that. I think you're right, it is probably a HDD controller. I'll try a few other things before I look for a new motherboard from eBay, but they are probably near the end of their life cycles too for socket 370. May I'll just get the least expensive, entry level kit and build a new pc, since it's just my backup pc. It would have been nice to use the old components - but even the old PSU doesn't have the extra 4 pin 12v connector the new motherboards use. So it will probably be entirely new kit. I'll try Knoppix first just to make sure.

Best wishes

[bob Bios]

Yes, the PSU is always worth a try - it just happens that I repaired a friends computer on sunday with just that fault, only that computer would no even boot up. PSUs are loaded with capacitors, they get hot, caps do not like that, often agravated by the fan being full of dust! On this particular MB, the processor fan & heatsink was also chocked with dust & muck - just stir it up with a paintbrush with a hoover sucking away nearby, & a computer gets a new lease of cooler life!
Bob

[tjjohn1001]

Thanks Sylvander and Bob for all your help. I believe I've found the problem - one of the capacitors near the CPU was leaking brown tar-like gunk from the bottom. It wasn't obvious at first, but taking the motherboard out and looking closely from a low angle revealed one bad capacitor. I imagine the capacitor was involved with loading some of the drivers since it was fine during initial boot, but reset during Windows loading. I'll look for another MB on eBay, hopefully without leaky caps. Your advice will certainly prove useful in future troubleshooting situations.

Cheers

[Sylvander]

Onward and upward!

[bob Bios]

You could try replacing the capacitor John - clean any gunge away as well.

[tjjohn1001]

Thanks Bob, but I'm null when it comes to soldering...I bought a used equivalent motherboard on ebay for 12 quid, hopefully with pristine capacitors!