VoIP phone suggestions

[Leolam]

Hi all,

Hello. I have a question regarding the VoIP phone. I am thinking to use Skype phone for local calling as this will save some phone calling bills locally.

Have you had any experience with Skype? They apparently offered $3 per month plan which sounds good.

How about Vonage ? What is your experience?

Please advise.

leolam

[Paul Komski]

I use Skype all the time but it is a "software" based VOIP setup and to make telephone calls you pre-pay set amounts and this ticks down as you make calls using their cheap rates; best value for most international land or mobile calls or free of course when you "skype" another on-line skype user. You can use speakers and microphone, headphones, special cordless phones that attach by USB or special VOIP phones that attach the PC. I find good cordless headphones the best.

With "hardware" based VOIP (such as a VIOP phone that plugs into a BB router or modem or an ordinary phone with an adapter) it depends on what provider you have available.

[pop pop]

While in Japan, I used a service called BroadVoice. The "adapter" was basically a router with a phone jack. The service gave me two local U.S. area code lines and I could call, toll free, anywhere in the U.S. and to 25 countries. Calls to me from anywhere in the world were free. The base price was about $27 USD per month...well worth it.

[Paul Komski]

Calls to me from anywhere in the world were free.

Can you expand on this for clarification. If I, for example, had no internet connection and was not another BroadVoice user could I phone you for free from a normal terrestrial or mobile telephone and would I then use a special local or Japanese telephone number? You could also, I presume, have moved the access point to another BB location in Japan but would you have been restricted to Japan?

The advantages of having a piece of hardware, like the one described, are that it emulates a normal telephone. Skype is very easy to use from any PC in the world after downloading and installing the software and the only hardware you might need to carry round with you is a lightweight headset.

[risk_reversal]

Without wishing to step outside my station, I think that pop pop is talking about an ATA [analogue telephone adapter] eg Linksys PAP2T which is the unit I use.

You subscribe to a voip telephony service eg voipfone, voiptalk or vonage [but there many others]. You could also go down the voipcheap.com route ie the betamaxes.

Calls to me from anywhere in the world were free

Well free to the receiver of the call [subject to the tel number used].

If I, for example, had no internet connection and was not another BroadVoice user could I phone you for free from a normal terrestrial or mobile telephone and would I then use a special local or Japanese telephone number?

The number allocated by the voip company allows incoming calls from PSTN number eg. I have 2 voip tel one beging with 056 and the other 0207. These can be called from any landline or mobile worldwide. But the caller pays telephony fees.

The advantages of having a piece of hardware, like the one described, are that it emulates a normal telephone.

Yes. Just connect a DECT phone(s) to it and no need for the pc to be on. But of course you need an internet connection.

Skype is very easy to use from any PC in the world after downloading and installing the software and the only hardware you might need to carry round with you is a lightweight headset.

An ATA can be just as flexible if you are abroad. If you take your ATA when abroad and can connect it to a router/bb connection, you can also use it anywhere.

The disadvantage of Skype [using pc software version] is that 2 users have to be on a pc and also it is my understanding that Skype will use your broadband connection to route other calls ie it is using your bandwidth with calls unrelated to yours.

I can see that Skype is popular because it can be financially totally free but it is not actually free since they are pinching you bandwidth.

I hope that I have not clouded the issue.

Good Luck

[Paul Komski]

The disadvantage of Skype [using pc software version] is that 2 users have to be on a pc and also it is my understanding that Skype will use your broadband connection to route other calls ie it is using your bandwidth with calls unrelated to yours.

I can see that Skype is popular because it can be financially totally free but it is not actually free since they are pinching you bandwidth.

Skype is only PC to PC if you are "Skyping to another Skype user" but you can also subscribe (Skype rates) and call Physical Telephone Land Lines and Mobiles (including SMS) anywhere in the world. One disadvantage is that other users (using normal telephones) cannot normally call you back though in most countries, if you have your own mobile phone, you can program Skype so that the other Telephone recipient believes you are calling from your own mobile phone. In Ireland you can get a physical phone number that other real Telephone users can call and your PC responds with a Skype incoming call. This is fantastic for those of us that have BB (mine is WiFi based) but no physical land line nor good mobile coverage.

Another advantage of Skype is that you can both IM and "chat" to other Skype users such that you can write a message even when they are not on-line but they will receive it when they next log-on. A history of such messaging can be kept if desired. In Skype mode, conferencing (with or without webcams) is a cinch and a very useful tool.

If you are using any VOIP you are consuming bandwidth regardless but that bandwidth cannot be extreme since such communications can work quite well on good dial-up (video excepted).

Many of the hardware based VOIP will also allow free connections to other subscribers of the same service.

and also it is my understanding that Skype will use your broadband connection to route other calls ie it is using your bandwidth with calls unrelated to yours

I believe this is a nonsense; perhaps you can support this statement.

[risk_reversal]

Well I ran across a post a while back on a voip forum. Although I cannot at this stage locate the actual post a quick search on the net for skype uses bandwidth should yield info. In fact the third entry in google headed Skype Uses Your Computer to Route Other Peoples' Skype to Calls has this info

This may be old news for some, but even if so, it’s worth reviewing again: when you install Skype, you are agreeing to let Skype use your computer to route other Skype users’ calls. It’s similar to the Seti arrangement. When your computer is otherwise not in use (or perhaps even when it is), Skype is using your computer’s resources to handle Skype traffic which has absolutely nothing to do with you.

“You hereby grant permission for the Skype Software to utilize the processor and bandwidth of Your computer for the limited purpose of facilitating the communication between Skype Software users.”

I know at first I thought it was also non sense but seems true. In fact this is no different to streaming music from some internet radio stations which also conduct themselves in the same way.

In fact, since Skype offer there PC to PC user service for free, then they try to reduce bandwidth costs by seemingly borrowing bandwidth availability from individual users.

I have had voip telephony for a number starting of years starting back in [2004] when BT came out with BT broadband voip and where providing a free Cisco ATA 186 which was using the MGCP protocol.

If you need further info let me know. I will try to help out if I can. If you decide to ditch Skype there are some really funky things that can be done with an ATA. Voip packages can be pretty cheap. Vonage offer 2000 mins per month for £5.99 or £7.99 with international destinations [and offer free(ish) harwdware ie D-Link VTA whcih is a PAP2 lookalike]. VoipTalk have a similar package for £5 with 1000 mins. Both of these companies will also give you a free geographical number for incoming calls.

Edit: For mobiles you can also use Vyke. Not sure if this is owned by Skype and works in the same way but if you have a mobile phone that is wifi capable and install this software then calls to others users are free mostly (i think not sure on this)

Good Luck

[Sylvander]

Wikipedia article on Skype.
QUOTE;
"Skype incorporates some features which tend to hide its traffic, but it is not specifically designed to thwart traffic analysis and therefore does not provide anonymous communication. Some researchers have been able to watermark the traffic so that it is identifiable even after passing through an anonymizing network."

The link to the "anonymizing network" leads here [info on "TOR"].
I wonder if they actually use a TOR network, or just something very similar?
Either way they'd be using lots of PC's out there as part of the network, and I'd guess they are using the PC's of the Skype subscribers.
That would use their bandwidth according to what I've read regarding TOR.

I've just installed Skype after reading this thread, and during the installation I read the legal agreement.
I believe it mentioned this using of bandwidth in that.

Can't get my mic to work in anything.
Bought this Lindy USB 2.0 Audio Adapter in an attempt to get my mic functional, but no success so far, either in Windows or BoxPup.

[Paul Komski]

If you decide to ditch Skype

No way. I can access it from any "High Speed" PC anywhere (I was recently in Poland staying at a house with just a mobile dial-up dongle) and make cheap phone calls or free Skype calls and still have access to all my contacts' details and history.

As for the stealing bandwidth thing - I remain sceptical because I can't see how it would be of great benefit to them and it looks to me more like a simple legal disclaimer. Even if true they would be welcome to use my bandwidth (when not using the pc) since it is not capped by my own service provider.

PS Yet another advantage that I constantly utilise (because I do a lot of remote desktop help) is that I can install it on the remote PC and then talk to the users at the other end instead of "chatting" by text. I also have a deaf uncle who can hear me perfectly on Skype ("its just as if you were in the room") but with great difficulty on his normal land line. And sending SMS is just so easy to type on a keyboard (including all the special characters and punctuation with ease) instead of tapping away at a mobile! Yet another thing is that I find a webcam can be invaluable - not for looking at my 'pretty face' - but for showing folks a wine label or a document or my limping log to my vet, etc and when away from home I can remote back to home, turn on Skype and check on wherever I left the webcam set up and also hear what's going on in range.

Anyways, thank goodness for VOIP in all its manifestations; it is thanks to its inception that the cost of normal telephony has tumbled almost everywhere. As far as I am concerned Skype really really rocks.

Can't get my mic to work in anything.

Is the Microphone enabled?

[risk_reversal]

Paul Komski said:
No way. I can access it from any "High Speed" PC anywhere (I was recently in Poland staying at a house with just a mobile dial-up dongle) and make cheap phone calls or free Skype calls and still have access to all my contacts' details and history.

Paul Komski said:
As for the stealing bandwidth thing - I remain sceptical because I can't see how it would be of great benefit to them and it looks to me more like a simple legal disclaimer. Even if true they would be welcome to use my bandwidth (when not using the pc) since it is not capped by my own service provider.

Hey, if Skype floats your boat and is more in tune with what you are doing then use it, I was not trying to force you into changing it into an ATA set up.

As regards stealing bandwidth I think I used the term borrowed with your permission. The benefit for Skype in so doing is simply that their bandwidth requirements ie cost are lower doing it this way. As I said before some internet radio stations also do the same [from memory I think Virgin is one, it's in the t&cs].

The only thing to bear in mind is for a broadband user with a low bandwidth allocation Skype has the ability to impact cost. How so you ask? Well assume that I have a 5Gb bandwidth package and lets assume that Skype uses 5-10Mb of bandwidth per hour [I think that is a good guess], if the pc is on 24/7 with Skype running at boot ie ticked in msconfig, then it is easy to see how this could push the user over his/her limit.

Furthermore, if you upload speed is low ie 256kbps then it could also make an impact to surfing speed, etc.

My comments are purely for informative purposes, hopefully other users who have or would want to try Skype will do so and be clear about how Skype is behaving and what it is doing.

Paul Komski said:
Anyways, thank goodness for VOIP in all its manifestations; it is thanks to its inception that the cost of normal telephony has tumbled almost everywhere.

Fantastic, yes. About a year ago I set a free incoming North American number for some friends of mine and anyone in N.A can call that number [local charge or free depending on package] and be routed to the recipient in the U.K who pay no fees to receive this call. That N.A number can be dialled even from a phone box.....

Also look at Vyke [or is it Vykie] the mobile phone equivalent of Skype. Perhaps this may also tickle your fancy. The requirements are for a symbian phone capable of wifi access ie same proceedure to configure wifi as a laptop enter SSID & key and off you go.

Good Luck chat soon

[Paul Komski]

I don't think you can guess at amounts; anyone could guess any amounts. Either these facts are known/knowable or they are not.

The upload or download speeds when surfing should not be affected since this apparently is only "borrowed" when the PC is not in use. "Stolen" or simply "Used" is better surely since they are hardly going to pay the "borrowed" amounts back.

Since Skype functions pretty well on dial-up it hardly implies much stolen/borrowed bandwidth.

Perhaps someone who really understands these things could chip-in. I personally must be missing something because I just cant see what major benefit there is in using a users downoad/upload bandwidth to route just exactly what through? Any up and down throughput would surely be throttled by one's own upload limitations and I would have imagined that most such transactions would require a degree of immediacy.

[risk_reversal]

Paul Komski said:
"Used" is better surely since they are hardly going to pay the "borrowed" amounts back

used as you say is the appropriate and correct term.

Paul Komski said:
I don't think you can guess at amounts; anyone could guess any amounts. Either these facts are known/knowable or they are not.

Have a look at these links two from the Skype forum

http://forum.skype.com/index.php?showtopic=224791

http://forum.skype.com/index.php?showtopic=16251

and the poor guy in the link below who became a super supernode. Albeit I will admit that this is one of the worst instances of bandwidth hogging I have run across.

http://gigaom.com/2006/01/10/skype-the-bandwidth-hog/

The user comments in the above link [scroll down] are also a worthwhile read with Greg Parker — 11:26 AM on January 11, 2006 giving the Skype background.

Good Luck

[Paul Komski]

Well it appears that one doesn't have to be a supernode and that anyone behind a NAT device/router would not be affected. The quoted links are a bit out of date and the bandwidth consumption very, very varied at that time four or so years ago.

http://www.skype.com/security/universities/

How can we prevent our network from hosting supernodes?

Skype uses peer-to-peer communications in order to allow users to find one another. Consequently, a small percentage of our users will hold a record reflecting the online presence of other users. When one user holds a record concerning the presence of other users, the former is called a "supernode", or directory node.

Even though the traffic sent to supernodes is negligible, some institutions are interested in preventing users on their network from becoming supernodes and, thereby, answering directory enquiries for other users.

There are several ways to prevent Skype from becoming a supernode:

* Beginning with Skype 3.0, an explicit switch is provided in the registry settings to allow the disabling of supernode functionality.
* Any computer hosted on a network that is behind a network address translation (NAT) device or restrictive firewall will disable supernode functionality.
* Skype clients behind an HTTP or SOCKS5 proxy will not serve as supernodes.

Enterprises typically opt for using the registry setting technique for turning off supernode functionality, simply because it is very straightforward to deploy a Windows GPO that contains the appropriate registry key setting. However, universities often find this more problematic because the computers may not be owned or operated by the host institution, making it difficult or impossible to ensure that registry keys are set properly.

In these cases, it may be more useful to set up a SOCKS5 proxy. Skype can be configured to use a SOCKS5 proxy, regardless of whether the client finds itself on a network with a public IP address or on one with a private IP address.

While the use of a SOCKS5 proxy still requires manual intervention by the user, the use of a proxy allows the economical "shaping" of Skype traffic. It has the additional positive side-effect of reducing supernodes on the network, reducing false-positive intrusion prevention system alarms and allowing for accurate measurement of Skype usage on the proxied network.

[DarrellBray]

I seem to hear good things about Skype, but keep in mind a lot of the saving seem to be associated with using it to contact other Skype users. Of course, I suspect it is still cheaper than what the phone company offers.

[Paul Komski]

a lot of the saving seem to be associated with using it to contact other Skype users

There is no need to subscribe any money at all in order to "Skype" other members. The real befefits in savings particularly arise with International Phone and Mobile/SMS usage. Texting mobiles is particularly handy since you just input from your keyboard.