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Thread: Mouse PS/2 and USB random freeze

  1. #1
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    Mouse PS/2 and USB random freeze

    Mouse freezing on PS/2 port and now USB at startup and while working with it.
    I really need some help with this one guys and gals.
    I've been working on an HP computer about 4 years old, running XP Pro SP2 all updates.

    Running AVG,Sygate. Did have Norton, MacAfee, and AVG all running at once but got that solved. No firewall

    I've gotten the updates, what there are, from HP

    I've been into safe mode to check for ghost mice, none there.

    I've uninstalled and reinstalled drivers and just let the native Windoze drivers have a go.

    I've removed all malware, checked for viruses.

    PS/2 port I think has been burnt as it has been unplugged and wiggled all while the computer was running a whole lot, so that may be the problem there.

    I then switched to one of my USB wireless mice that I have and it worked fine while I had it here at the house and I ran that computer through it's paces too for over a week. Not once did the mouse freeze, whether at startup or while working. So I thought I had it figured out.
    Took computer back to office, got PS/2 > USB adapter and plugged mouse into USB port and it was working fine when I left.

    Now I'm getting reports that it is still freezing up.

    I'm just at a loss as to what it could be now. I would say the mouse itself but on the PS/2 port it froze with my test mouse too so I'm unsure about that.

    The computer other than that is working fine, the keyboard has not been an issue through this whole thing, has had no problems at all.
    Any suggestions?
    LG


  2. #2
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    1. Download a Knoppix Linux Live CD iso, make the bootable CD, load Knoppix and let it run.
    If there is no sign of the problem in Knoppix, then there is no problem with the hardware [HDD excluded], or the BIOS.
    It's a problem that only exists within the Windows environment [after Windows begins loading?]

    2. Does it also freeze in Safe Mode?

    3. If you have an image backup of C: made recently when all was well [and matches the present hardware], and you restore that and the problem disappears, this also would prove it was a problem with the Windows software environment.

    4. Did this problem appear after some software/hardware change...OR NOT?

    5. In the past, [do they still?], a mouse used a 16-bit program and a special message queue for 16-bit programs.
    The 16-bit message queue uses "Co-operative Multi-tasking" rather than "Pre-emptive Multi-tasking".
    This means that ANY 16-bit program that does not relinquish the CPU [freezes or goes into a loop] would cause every other 16-bit program to freeze [the mouse being one of those].
    a. Go to your help files and look for "16-Bit Programs>Troubleshooter" and use it.
    b. Go to "Device Manager>View>Devices by connection>[Expand the tree]>[Mouse]>Properties>Driver>Driver Details" and note the driver files used.
    c. Go to "System Information>Components>Input>Pointing Device" and see if the "Status" is "OK" for the mouse [OR NOT].
    d. Go to "System Information>Software Environment>Drivers" and see what the status is of those mouse driver files.

  3. #3
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    Did they say what they were doing as it froze this latest time?

    Could things like auto updates for Windows, AVG, and other programs be causing the screen to stutter or seem to freeze? How long does it freeze for?

    You could try testing the memory, btw, what are the specs? Is the ps-2 mouse and all hunky-dory in Device Manager?
    There's no place like 127.0.0.1

  4. #4
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    Thanks so much!
    I'm making a check list now and will hopefully get into town this week to try everything. For now I'll try to tell you what I know.
    Syl, I'll download Knoppix tonight and get it ready to go.
    It did freeze in safe mode when it was plugged into the PS/2 port but not when plugged into the USB, at least here at the house.

    When I got the computer it was nuts. Screen flashing, programs opening and closing all on their own, mouse jumping all over, almost impossible to work on. Shoot, forgot the twitchy video. Had to mess with it something awful just to get anything on the monitor, plug it in, boot then shut down and unplug and replug then boot again, this went on for half an hour,even put in another video card and bypassed the onboard in BIOS when it finally came up and it still was a problem. This whole mess has been going on for several months now from what I was told and has progressively gotten worse, it finally got to the point that the computer was unusable so that's when they called me.

    I got it into safe mode and from there was able to take out all the conflicting AVs and get Adaware and Spybot on and run them. After that I rebooted and was at least able to work on it in normal windows.
    I have a backup that I can try,So that will go on the list too.
    There have been no hardware or software changes made that I've been told of, just what I've done and it was already a mess before that.
    Would a computer that is only 4 years old have 16-bit programs? I'll take all that with me Syl and run down the list and see what's there.
    I took a good look at the Device Manager before it went back to the office and everything there was good to go. No yellows or question marks or exclamation points. Nothing but a nice clean slate.

    Specs are AMD 3200, 512 MB RAM, 160 Gig HDD, 2 partitions ( one partition taken by HP) at the front of the disk from what I can see. There is now an Acronis safe zone, a huge one. Like I said there is so much junk on that computer that the backup takes 40 Gig. I know, I know, that's outrageous.
    There are restore disks for the computer I believe but I'm terrified of using them for fear it will be a destructive restore.
    FTT, as far as I know our Exec wasn't there, it was her Assistant who says it froze, I haven't talked to the Exec to see how the computer acted Monday, I'll call her today. So I have no clue what she was doing.
    I ran across that too in the search I did before I posted, that an AV will sometimes cause a slight freeze while it's updating and that could very well be part of the problem. These are office people and if the computer doesn't jump when they say they freak out.

    I'll get the information you all need and try the suggestions as soon as I can. Thanks so much for the help, really deeply appreciated.
    LG


  5. #5
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    "Screen flashing, programs opening and closing all on their own, mouse jumping all over...twitchy video"
    Sounds like it needs to be checked out in the "Applications and Security" forum for infection.

    "but not when plugged into the USB"
    That is very interesting, and I'd guess significant.
    Check out what the differences are between the two.
    Different drivers?
    Both sets of drivers 16-bit or NOT?

    "I have a backup that I can try"
    Was that made when all was well?
    Are the data files [on one or more partitions?] SEPARATE from the Windows/Programs partition?
    You don't want to "jump back" and lose lots of valuable data files.
    If not separate at the moment, move them off C: as soon as possible.

    "no hardware or software changes made"
    That's helpful/convenient.

    "Would a computer that is only 4 years old have 16-bit programs?"
    I don't know, but my Win2000Pro has them.
    You'll soon find out if the Windows help files include a link to a 16-bit programs troubleshooter.

    "the backup takes 40 Gig"
    Wow!
    My C: partition [holding only Windows & Programs] is only 5 GB; images are less than 3 GB.
    My D: partition [personal data files] is only 1 GB; images 400 MB.
    E: = 30 GB Lots of space, no images.
    F: = 20 GB Lots of space, 1 GB images.
    I use [the FREE copy of] "SyncBack" to synchronise "sources"...
    D: to a 1 GB "Flash Drive" partition H:...
    E: F: to USB2 HDD partition O:...
    to "destinations" on these.
    These are 2nd copies of the folder/file system updated [takes minutes] every few hours, or day.

    "I'm terrified of using them for fear it will be a destructive restore"
    Make an image backup [if you have anything big enough to take it ]...
    Then use something like "BootIT NG" to [non-destructively] resize C: and move all the data files off there.
    If successful, scrap the 1st [HUGE] image, and make new images of the new partition arrangement.
    Then try the restore disks.
    If it turns out bad, no worries, you have insurance in the form of these images.
    You can at least go back to the way things are now, or will be after the partition rearrangement.
    Some of the things I love about having image backups is...
    The freedom from the FEAR of what can happen in moving forward.
    The FLEXIBILITY or freedom of movement; it makes all kinds of things possible.
    As soon as there is the slightest hint that all is not as it should be....
    I restore an image, and the problem, if there was one, and whatever it WAS [provided it was software related], IS GONE!
    If that doesn't fix a problem, then it isn't software related, and I can focus attention elsewhere.

  6. #6
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    Syl, bless you darlin!
    Not only did that D--- mouse freeze but it froze 8 times primarily using email, OE. Was using some blasted Netscape thing that was an antique, we got our Exec to start learning OE and she's been doing great, very proud of her! Lost the Address Book but we got it and it's saved all over the place.
    We now have another wrinkle, the mouse is now jumping around all over the place! I swear it sounds like malware somewhere but I've cleaned everything I've been taught to. What the devil is going on!!!!!
    I'm going in tomorrow morning 10:30 and I'm taking the Knoppix CD and I'll try that. I'm taking the check list and I'll find all the information but my huge concern is, I only have ONE HOUR! What the ---- can I do in that length of time? I'm taking my wireless trackball mouse that worked so good here at the house, not one lockup in a week and a half.
    I've got very little info on the mouse. I asked our exec to pick it up and read me what was there.
    HP mouse
    looks like, S/N 031206153
    P/N 51872155REVB
    I'm going to google this but you all know I'm not good with searches and my welbutrin only works to a certain extent!
    LG


  7. #7
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    Ok yesterday at least got a hijackthis log posted to Budfred, now for Syl's info.
    I have the computer home now, went and got the darn thing again.

    Looked all over for anything that even said 16-bit anything and there is nary a thing.
    Went and found device drivers per instructions,
    C: sys32DRIVERS mouclass.sys
    mouhid.sys
    All say OK on status on all fronts.
    Everywhere you asked me to go I went and everything said OK everywhere.

    I am now going to try to run Knoppix, there was no way I could at that office, most people just don't understand it's not an "hour" job, really getting to the bottom can take days, in my case I got till Sunday evening.
    I'll report back
    LG


  8. #8
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    OK, so 32-bit mouse drivers are being used. [I failed to spot that in my system]
    1. YOURS [in WinXP]
    "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\mouclass.sys"
    MINE [in Win2000Pro]
    "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\mouclass.sys"

    2. YOURS [in WinXP]
    "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\mouhid.sys"
    MINE [in Win2000Pro]
    "C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\i8042prt.sys" [why the difference? XP versus 2000?]

    So because 32-bit drivers are being used there will be none of the former possible problems with 16-bit message queue's.

    Make sure the batteries are good in the wireless mouse.

    Wonder what Knoppix will show.

  9. #9
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    Syl, I'm so sorry I've not gotten back. After I ran Knoppix I shut down and rebooted per instructions on screen. The computer never came up again. This was not due to Knoppix I'm sure, this was due to the twitchy video that had been going on the whole time, that I failed to mention except in the last post! My fault totally!
    Known working cards put in and tried to correct video, 3 AGP and 1 PCI video cards, nothing.
    All BIOS would give me was 2 short and 6 long. I've counted and counted and that's it. As God is my witness that's it!!!
    HP says BIOS are AWARD, but no codes I could find to match those,
    AMI on the other hand has at least one that comes close and fits the bill, 2 short and 8 long matching my problem, VIDEO.

    Guys and Gals I've been working on computers for at least 4 years now, I've honestly never come across one that is doing the wacked out things this one is. Hubby said "just because you've never run across a computer you can't fix, doesn't mean you aren't going to".
    So, rather than cause my nonprofit org. any more headaches I've ordered a new Mobo and Processor that I can use the RAM and drives with. The only thing we need really badly is a legal copy of XP Pro but I'm sure we will find a way for that. Thanks so much for all the help, I need to let Budfred know what's up he's been such a help too.
    LG


  10. #10
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    Did you test the RAM yet?

    Seems AWARD uses only 2 beep codes.

    1 long, 2 short for video and all others for bad RAM.
    If RAM and video are ok, supposedly they use an onscreen display of the problem for anything else.

    At least that's what I am gathering from Googling their codes online.
    There's no place like 127.0.0.1

  11. #11
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    Because you've changed the [PCI] hardware connected to the mobo, you would possibly/probably need to "Force update the ESCD".
    Since you cannot get into the BIOS Setup to do that...
    Reset the BIOS by using the jumper on the mobo or else removing the CMOS battery for some time.
    That will make the BIOS re-detect all the connected PCI hardware, make new non-conflicting hardware resource allocations.

    What may be happening...
    a. The POST fails at the attempt to initialise the video card either because the video configuration settings cannot be made to work, or because the resources allocated cannot be made to work.
    You may need to connect hardware [video card] that matches the default BIOS configuration settings [If you know what those are. It helps if you have them all written down]

  12. #12
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    FTT, Syl,
    Clearing the CMOS by jumper and battery was one of the first things I did. You all taught me well you know
    Can't see to get into BIOS or I would force the ESCD.

    I have tested the RAM the way I've been taught and both sticks seem fine. I have them in another board now and both are detected and working.

    I've tried all the known working video cards I can lay my hands on and nothing works. Don't quite get you on "matching the default BIOS"?

    It's on board video so putting in a card should at least work around enough to bring up something so I can see to get into BIOS. Any other time I've used that method it's worked.

    Would a failing CPU cause these kinds of problems??

    That's what I mean about the beep codes, Award doesn't use anything like what I'm getting so what is it?? What's making those beeps??

    Like I said everyone and their uncle has done something to the computer before I ever got hold of it so I'm really not surprised that it's going belly up just frustrated that I can't fix it!

    Many thanks for all the help, I'm finishing up the new build and after I get Arc settled with their "new" computer I'm going to try to do some further testing on this old one. I really want to know why it's doing what it's doing and what form of alien life is making those beeps!
    LG


  13. #13
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    "Don't quite get you on "matching the default BIOS"?"
    Well...
    You've reset the BIOS configuration settings to the default values, right?
    So the connected hardware needs to be matched to to those settings or else the settings will be incorrect; settings and hardware must always match.
    e.g. See next below.

    "It's on board video so putting in a card should at least work around enough to bring up something"
    Surely when you connect a [particular type of] video card, you need to...
    a. Make sure the on-board video is disabled [which it isn't in the default settings I'm sure].
    b. Make sure the video settings match the type of video card connected [AGP, PCI, PCIE][I'm no expert on this].

    "Award doesn't use anything like what I'm getting"
    Seems different mobo manufacturers can alter/customise their copy to deviate from the generic BIOS code.

  14. #14
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    Have you checked for "the Capacitor Problem"? It rather sounds like that could be the cause.
    be wary of strong drink - it may make you shoot at tax collectors, and miss!

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