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Thread: What is 169.254.0.0?

  1. #1
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    What is 169.254.0.0?

    Hi.

    Zone Alarm Anti-virus keeps asking me to allow a new network address of 169.254.0.0

    What is this?

    I denied it access.

    My router is 192.168.x.x, and it has vanished, although it was there yesterday - the only choice now, is 169.254.0.0, which is currently disabled.

    Other machines on my home network on 192.168.x.x work fine, and can access the net and other machines, but the one machine can't anymore...


    ADDITIONAL: Rebooted, and this weird network reference has gone, the gateway address has re-appeared, and everything is working, but WHY did the gateway IP vanish when the machine was left alone overnight, and WHY did the other address come up?
    Last edited by Mini-Me; 07-20-2008 at 04:23 PM.
    "An expert is someone who will tell you why you can't do something." - Alec Issigonis (designer of the Mini)

  2. #2
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    169.xxx.xxx.xxx addresses are default returns when the device is not connecting to anything.
    Was the connection wired? In that case a patch cable may be loose/defective.

  3. #3
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    Yes, wired - not wireless.

    It's the mediaplayer frontend, to the server in the other room.
    The machine-specific IP addresses are automatically assigned by the ADSL router.

    It's been working fine for years, now all of a sudden, this odd error.

    I got about 5 minutes into a Voyager episode, before ZA popped up again, this time asking to allow SERVICES.EXE access to the net.

    While I'm here, and if you'll pardon the slight digression, what is SERVICES.EXE, and is it safe to allow it access?

    It's path is C:\WINNT\System32\Services.exe
    It's size is 89,360 bytes.(size on disk is 90,112)
    "An expert is someone who will tell you why you can't do something." - Alec Issigonis (designer of the Mini)

  4. #4
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    The physical ethernet cable connection could be bad/loose at either end, and simplest and cheapest is always a good place to start when troubleshooting. Try a new patch cable if it does it again.

    The port could possibly be going bad in the router/switch where the device is plugged in, less likely but possible.

    I will let the others address the services.exe issue, that is more into the Windows and Security forum fields, it may have simply been asking for an update check or may have been something else. It also depends on how you have your ZA configured, to know if it is a new request or a repeat request from earlier.

  5. #5
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    Services.exe is one of the worst ideas MS ever had...it is a catch all app that usually is something system/OS related needing network access.

    But...

    It could also be malware...

    So, without scanning the snot out of the system, it is hard to say why it was popping up.
    AV, Anti-Trojan List;Browser and Email client List;Popup Killer List;Portable Apps
    “When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon.” - Thomas Paine
    Remember: Amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titantic."

  6. #6
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    For now, it is listed in ZA program control as denied access to Internet or Trusted network. If things start playing up, i will re-enable access to Trusted network first and see what happens.
    "An expert is someone who will tell you why you can't do something." - Alec Issigonis (designer of the Mini)

  7. #7
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    It is called an APIPA address. It means the machine is set to get an IP from DHCP and when it tried, it did not get a response or did not accept the response. DHCP is a broadcast, it could be zone alarm stopped it or your machine thought it was time to renew the IP and the router doing DHCP did not believe it was time. If the cable was bad you would get a disconnection and there should be an Event in the Event Viewer logs. If there is nothing in the Event Viewer it was probably zone alarm.

    Services.exe deals with starting and stopping services. It is called by other processes. You don't want various apps stopping and starting services. Think of Services.exe as a gatekeeper. Applications use ports to listen on and connect to. Services.exe opens and closes ports when it starts and stops something. This is normal. It is located in the system32 folder of your Windows installation. If the .exe is found elsewhere it is probably malware. You can run a Search for services.exe and make sure you check search hidden files and folders.

    Here is what services.exe does:

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa923450.aspx

    There is a program called Process Explorer that will show you the various threads beneath services.exe.

  8. #8
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    Most of the time it is an update check that spawns it...when it pops up on ZA that way.

    I forgot about using Process Explorer to check out what started it...thanks for reminding me about that, Variable.
    AV, Anti-Trojan List;Browser and Email client List;Popup Killer List;Portable Apps
    “When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon.” - Thomas Paine
    Remember: Amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titantic."

  9. #9
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    Here's my own Win2000Pro system with Process Explorer displaying the services.exe process with lots of other processes beneath it on the tree.
    .
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #10
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    Well, i'm going to uninstall ZA - it seems to have a problem with Win 2000.
    I'm using old version 5 - I suppose I could upgrade it, but i'm sick of the constant problems.

    All the mapped network drives are missing from the explorer tree this morning again, after leaving the machine to it's own devices overnight.

    I NEVER had these problems before ZA was installed - the network was always there, and the server with the mapped drives was always available.

    Current system check reveals that:

    - Network is connected(Network connnections/Status)
    - Ping of gateway results in response.
    - Ping of 127.0.0.1 results in response.
    - All mapped drives are inaccessible.
    - A reboot restores access.

    Other machines(running XP) can access the server drives just fine - the server is always on.

    I can't have this, as the mediaplayer system uses a custom-keyboard, with only the keys I need to control the mediaplayer application - every time there is a problem, there is no keyboard with which to type in any commands, besides which, rebooting every morning to restore access when I have never had to do this is just a pain in the backside.

    I suppose I could upgrade the player box to XP - it's a P4 2GHz w/512MB - should run XP OK just for one application...

    QUESTION: Do I even need a firewall application, when the machine is part of a home network on 192.168.x.x? This range of IP's should not be accessible from the Internet by others anyway, and the home network is behind an ADSL router with built in NAT, so maybe ZA on the mediaplayer box is overkill...

    All other machines except 1 are XP Pro with ZA, and they never give any problems with access rights. The 1 that is not(again Win2K Pro w/SP4) is only on when I use it - it is switched off when not in use.

    Opinions?
    "An expert is someone who will tell you why you can't do something." - Alec Issigonis (designer of the Mini)

  11. #11
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    "Well, i'm going to uninstall ZA - it seems to have a problem with Win 2000."
    I'm running ZA 7.0.483.000 within the Win2000Pro SP4 environment, and it's trouble free.
    So there's no inherent problem in trying to make those two work together.
    Perhaps you should update to ZA 7.0.483.000 HERE, because this fixes a problem with getting past ZA to access the internet that was caused by the recent MS update kb951748.

  12. #12
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    IMHO
    If you do not surf from the media machine and do not pull down email a software firewall is not needed. It is better to have firewalling done on the router. See if your router has any advanced security settings.

  13. #13
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    Even if your router doesn't have much in the way of advanced settings, you should be able to use it to block the media sever from internet access.
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    “When men yield up the privilege of thinking, the last shadow of liberty quits the horizon.” - Thomas Paine
    Remember: Amateurs built the ark; professionals built the Titantic."

  14. #14
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    I agree with Variable on this one, but you should also understand that if the firewall ever goes down on the router the media machine should be pulled off the network immediately until the problem is remedied, and scanned before reconnecting it. Defense in layers is usually a good thing unless it causes problems of its own.
    The router firewall should be enough.

  15. #15
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    I'm no expert on the topic...
    But was reading recently...
    That the firewall in the router will allow in from the outside to the inside [perhaps something malicious]...
    Anything that is a response to something on the inside.
    And that something on the inside could be malicious.
    And that's where the software firewall comes in.
    It is rather good at preventing malicious things that have gained access to the inside...
    From sending things out.

    Hence the two cover both sides of the problem.
    They complement each other.

  16. #16
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    Sylvander,
    Your understanding is correct, but please understand a working software firewall is only as effective as the skill of the user that permits the connections.
    If MiniMe's media machine software firewall is never monitored for allowing permissions, it might only cause trouble, and monitoring application behavior is the real reason for software firewalls when also using a router/hardware firewall as the primary protection device.
    Event logs at the router can substitute for the software firewall monitoring.
    Last edited by PrntRhd; 07-21-2008 at 07:54 PM.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Variable View Post
    IMHO
    If you do not surf from the media machine and do not pull down email a software firewall is not needed. It is better to have firewalling done on the router. See if your router has any advanced security settings.
    That's what I thought...

    I think I'll just remove ZA, but I might upgrade it to ver 7 as suggested by Sylvander first...

    I will look in the router for settings.

    The mediaplayer box never needs access to the net, other then recently, to auto-update the ZA files; before that, it only ever runs playback software, with the media itself being sucked across the network from the server box in the other room - that's the only reason it is on the network AT ALL.

    So yes - it never browses the net or does any e-mail of any kind.(in fact IE is totally uninstalled, so is Outlook Express & MS Mail)

    My primary reason for having ZA at all on the mediaplayer box, was to prevent the possibility of anyone else from the WWW hacking into that box, but perhaps this is not really that likely...

    It's probably not worth it even if they did, as they would find a slim install, with no actual media on the machine, and only 10GB HDD to explore!!!


    ...but by the same token, you don't want to INVITE them in...
    Last edited by Mini-Me; 07-21-2008 at 10:02 PM.
    "An expert is someone who will tell you why you can't do something." - Alec Issigonis (designer of the Mini)

  18. #18
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    Just remove the Default Gateway from the TCP/IP Properties of the Local Area Connection on this server. If you need Internet access just add the gateway back. You cannot be hacked if you do not have a connection to the outside world and that is what the Default Gateway is.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Variable View Post
    Just remove the Default Gateway from the TCP/IP Properties of the Local Area Connection on this server. If you need Internet access just add the gateway back. You cannot be hacked if you do not have a connection to the outside world and that is what the Default Gateway is.
    Nice idea, but I can't.
    In fact, I think I would like to do this - especially on the server, as I don't really want it having access to the net at all, so this would protect it too.

    All the boxes in TCP/IP Properties(IP address, Subnet Mask, Default Gateway) are greyed out. I think this is pretty much the default-standard for all Windows machines from 2K upwards. The "Obtain IP Address automatically" and the "Obtain DNS Server Address automatically" check-boxes are ticked.

    As all the machines are assigned their settings by the router, does this mean I need to manually assign IP addresses to the machines, and untick "Obtain an IP address automatically" and "Obtain DNS Server Address automatically" checkboxes?

    If I do that, How do I find out what the DNS Server settings are, so I can manually put them back in?

    They might be in the router(the DNS settings), but I can't remember the login password for the router, so I have a feeling I am going to have to reset it, to be able to get back in using the default password. Then I'll have to reset my connection to ADSL etc...

    *sigh*

    Nothing is ever easy, eh?


    ADDITIONAL: Found the DNS settings using ipconfig /all from command-prompt.
    Now all I have to do, is get into the router!!!
    I might buy another router - the current one is about 4 years old, and has been going 24/7, so another one might be a good idea, and they are smaller and cheaper now then ever before...
    "An expert is someone who will tell you why you can't do something." - Alec Issigonis (designer of the Mini)

  20. #20
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    You set up a media server and you don't know how/didn't assign a static address? Don't make it harder than it is, it is simple.

    Just take whatever you now have when you do ipconfig /all ..IP address and subnet mask * Only * and increase the IP address by some large number. Say if it is 192.168.1.7 make it 192.168.1.177.

    Unless your running an internal DNS server, if you take out the Default Gateway you don't need a DNS server. DNS servers are for resovling Internet names to IP addresses. The gateway is the route OUT of the local network - in your case the Internet. You are not running a domain locally are you i.e. you set up a domain controller on 2000 or 2003 server?

  21. #21
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    You set up a media server and you don't know how/didn't assign a static address? Don't make it harder than it is, it is simple.
    No I don't have static IP's - I let the machine auto-configure, as I didn't(don't) know how to correctly get things setup using manual configuration.

    If it's easy - great!

    Just take whatever you now have when you do ipconfig /all ..IP address and subnet mask * Only * and increase the IP address by some large number. Say if it is 192.168.1.7 make it 192.168.1.177.
    OK - That sure sounds simple.


    Unless your running an internal DNS server, if you take out the Default Gateway you don't need a DNS server. DNS servers are for resovling Internet names to IP addresses. The gateway is the route OUT of the local network - in your case the Internet. You are not running a domain locally are you i.e. you set up a domain controller on 2000 or 2003 server?
    I'm lost...


    What I have, is all the machines connected by CAT-5 back to an 8-port 10/100 switch, which has it's 8th port daisy-chained to the ADSL router. The ADSL modem/router assigns all the IP addresses etc to all machines on the network automatically.

    I say all this, so you will know how I have things setup - essentially a very basic auto-configuring home network, using no PC's Windows older then 2K w/SP4, and XP. No Vista machines(yet).

    If you are asking if I run a web-site from here, no I don't. All traffic is essentially incoming from the net to whichever box asks for Internet access, and a small amount of outgoing traffic in the form of e-mail attachments etc sent to other people.

    So assuming that I don't need to worry about the DNS paragraph you wrote, it would otherwise seem pretty straightforward to do, so I will try later tonight.


    I had problems a year or two ago, when I tried to manually setup the home network with manually assigned IP's, and it did not want to work - PC's would ping each other, but could not access each other's resources. I was using 192.168.1.1 through to 192.168.1.7, thinking that you can use any number you like in the 192.168.1.xxx range. This must not be the case...
    "An expert is someone who will tell you why you can't do something." - Alec Issigonis (designer of the Mini)

  22. #22
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    You can use any number you want in the range as long as you don't have DHCP running and giving out those same numbers... DHCP caches the IP addresses and MAC or physical addresses of machines it gives IP's to. So if you tried to use a number that was already on this list you would have issues with the router. It wouldn't affect file sharing if a switch was in front of the router though. A switch doesn't know anything about IP addresses... It ONLY uses MAC or physical addresses.

    Anytime you change the IP of the machine, other machines that already know the NetBIOS name and think it is a certain IP will need to be updated. Using DHCP or using Static assigned addresses has no impact on file sharing. DHCP does not have "special" features to enable sharing or do some behind the scene file sharing set up. It is simply a mechanism to automatically assign IP, Mask, Gateway and DNS without user intervention.

    You can ignore my questions about a domain. It does not appear that you have one running.

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